Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Barnes 190s in the 303 Savage

I picked up a couple hundred of the 190gr Barnes originals a while back to fiddle with in the old 303 and just got around to testing groups today. I was a wee bit disappointed; they are definitely on the lower end of the spectrum for accuracy among the gaggle of bullets I've shot through it.

As usual with my rifle, it likes being babied, and groups turned to buckshot as I pushed them hotter. The happy velocity range with all the powders I tried was between 1650-1700fps through the chronograph. They also showed a pretty strong preference for faster powders. None of the slower burning stuff I tried grouped very well at all.



Best couple groups with IMR3031 and A2015 from 60 yards.

4064 and some 150gr round nose and your good to go!! Drops them in their tracks.

I've shot bullets from 100 grains up to these 190s now, and most of them have shot a lot better than this. The 110 Varminter, 110 ETip, Speer 130FN, 140 Monoflex and 170 Hornady FN will all cloverleaf group at the same distance.

Only other bullets I recall not shooting very well from it were 100 half jackets and 110RN.

Sorta off topic...

Yesterday my wife surprised me by ordering a non-Savage lever gun in 357magnum to a "gun store"/gas station I didn't know about. I was blindsided by the surprise. I got to talking to the guy while waiting a very long time for the background check to clear. Told him I was into old Savages, blah, blah, blah... He asked if it would be interested in some old 303 Savage ammo but they weren't complete boxes. I told him no way he had 303 savage and he probably was mistakenly thinking about 303 British which are very, very common around here for whatever reason. Eventually he dug up 3 boxes Winchester silver tip 190gr 303 Savage ( the blue and yellow with a bear ) None full, some had mixed empties with loaded. I ended up getting them for "free" because I was buying the gun, some powder, some primers and some bullets.

A couple things learned:

1. It seems my wife actually listens to me rambling on sometimes, and I should watch what I'm saying.

2. Don't assume and/or be pessimistic.


I have not shot 303 Savage with 190gr bullets, now I get to experience it.

Very cool, going to shoot them all, or hang onto some of it as shelf/display pieces?

I've never actually shot any factory ammo from my 303, it's been fed all handloads since I got it. The 190s definitely have a bit more thump when you pull the trigger than lighter bullets.

I made one box and have enough left over to shoot the leftovers. I might pull one apart but am hoping someone here already knows the factory loads.

There is still several feet of snow here and I'm going to save these babies until the summer when I have my range set up again. Shooting off a truck hood in my driveway is still fun, but it's not like this ammo grows on trees.

In the OT sense, Rossi M92s are very nice. And I haven't been surprised by a present in probably 40+ years.

There is absolutely no reason to try to make a .308 from a .303. It also doesn't do the rifle any good. A .303 and a 190 will kill anything at the mid load data.

It's got an extremely oversized chamber and throat, so velocities run very low in it anyway. The groups also go straight to hell by the time I hit middling loads across essentially all bullet/powder combinations I've shot through it.

I'm presently just using it for target plinking and an occasional sit for coyotes, so my pet load I've kept the sights zeroed to the past couple years has been 110gr Sierra Varminters over a mild charge of A4064 that are doing about 2100fps over the chrono. They still kick the snot out of pests up close. I had been shooting IMR4320 through it before they pulled the plug on that.

I'm actually in the process of working up a replacement load for those with Speer 130 flat points. The Varminters shoot great, but they are a real PITA to get started into the cases without pinching my fingers since they're so stubby and dead flat based. I had a couple pretty promising 130gr loads with A2495 and N130 yesterday, so I'll be tweaking those two in to settle on a final load. Got a couple with some shots touching. They're a cloverleaf bullet with 4320, but I don't use what little of that I have left for plinker loads.

Can the Barnes be safely shot in a tube magazine?

I would trade you bullets.

If I were you, I would think about a different 303 savage to shoot

They're a very flat nosed bullet, so definitely good to go for tubes. Barnes lists load data for them within COAL to feed in 30-30s.

I'm going to hang onto them, just in case I ever end up wanting to plug something with the classic 190 load. They're not tack drivers by any means, but good enough for short woods work.

BCR still has them in stock, if you're searching for some. That's where I bought the ones I have.

I love the rifle, you just can't push anything very fast out of it accurately. It makes for a fantastic steel plate dinger, with the loads being so mild recoil is negligible, and it does shoot well with quite a few different bullets.

Are you seating them out as far as you possibly can? Crimp or no crimp? Are you only partial neck sizing so as to maintain straightness/concentricity of the bullet in its sloppy surroundings? (Assuming also that the dies and press are up to the challenge of creating straight ammo too.)

Kind of a mystery here. You said you have an oversize chamber and throat, yet lightweight bullets shoot well even though having to rattle their way through a loose throat. Long heavies should in theory work better than short lightweights. Wish you were closer, we could experiment with fat (.310-.311 diameter) 190 cast bullets which always evened out the odds in several generously throated .30 rifles I've owned. I routinely get best accuracy at the upper end of the data with them, with fast-medium burning powders, at a chrono'ed 1925fps out of 20" Savage and 2030fps out of 24" .30-30, with 28gr. 3031 in both.

I agree with not trying to make a .308 out of a .303. But if I'm gonna loaf along at modest velocity please let it be with as heavy a bullet that I can get away with. A 190 cruising at 1600-1700fps will have a lot more smack than a 150 limping along at that pace, and as much smack as a 150 moving 300fps faster. That level of velocity will kill deer in the woods with alacrity all day long, but even better with a long heavy bullet.

I tried seating them at different lengths. They ended up shooting best right at the cannelure with a light crimp. COAL ~ 2.517.

I'm doing partial FL sizing. I had tried neck sizing for it way back when I first got it and it made closing the bolt really stiff.

Seating depth for making it happy is very dependent on the bullet. Some shoot best very long (a couple of my loads are just shy of 2.600") and others do best seated relatively short. It's a really finicky thing to work up loads for, but once you find the sweet spot it's a shooter.

Just kind of generalities here, because it does vary by powder and bullet, but happy spots for velocities.

110gr - 2100-2200 fps
125/130gr - 2000-ish fps
140/150gr - 1900-1950fps
170gr - 1800-1850fps
190gr - 1650-1700fps.

It's a 22" barreled A SR.

I think Savage serendipitously hit upon a great idea when they stuck a 190 in the .303. I'll bet it was to steal a march on the competitor's .30-30's in the minds of duffers back then, but in reality they created an honest improvement for that class of cartridge.

Great advice up above!

I would also carefully inspect the crown of the muzzel.

Damnesia, don't throw those empty bear boxes away.

The crown is fine, I actually had to clean it up about a year back after dinging it... oops 😬

Did your 303 perform better after you cleaned it up?

Well, better than after I dinged it 🤣 But the same as before. I didn't realize I had done it until I started flinging bullets all over one day. Put a nice little nick in it I had to smooth out.

U every think about having a target crown put in by a gunsmith?


This is a 1930 era 300 savage model F

Nah, it shoots well enough for me as is. Just takes a while to work up loads.

140 Monoflexes over IMR4320.



My main plinking load, Sierra 110 Varminter over A4064. This is the one I'm trying to replace with the 130 Speers. I absolutely hate loading those 110s.

I been thinking about this deal.

Perhaps your brass needs annealed?

Charlie Sisk started a thread on axe the gun writers.

Best of luck.

Been a few weeks, but just a bit of follow up on that. The rifle just doesn't seem particularly fond of the bullets, it isn't the brass.

I finally had the cooperation of both time and weather to get back out to shoot again yesterday. Had a couple cloverleaf @50yd loads in the test batches of 130FN that were loaded in the exact same group of brass that the 190s had been loaded in. With an additional resizing on it after the 190 groups were shot.

It's no real skin off my nose, I basically just got the 190s to play with. I have several alternative bullets that shoot dandy through the rifle. It's not like those Barnes hopelessly bad, either. While they are not bugholers, they're still plenty accurate enough for woods work.

Try Leverevolution... put me with the “308 out of a 303” group if you want but the truth is compressed loads with certain powders and for certain cartridges can really improve accuracy by improving consistency in velocity. LVR seems to be one of those powders and its not so bad to get a velocity/power boost along with better accuracy is it? You bought the 190s for their wallop in the first place. You didn’t say what primers... if you were using WLR, try CCI. Test data says they are about the most consistent. Good luck. I pick up my first 303S Model 1899 tomorrow and my plan is 190 Barnes, 150 Silvertips (old/new stock), PPU brass, CCI 200 and LVR powder. Hodgdon says max compressed loads with LVR for 190s are 38 grains, for 150s its 42 grains.

I'm not particularly fond of ball powders in anything much bigger than 223. I have some LVR, but never messed with it much in the 303.

I was using CCI200 primers for most of them. I did a couple groups with WLR, but they weren't any better.

Just a caveat on working up your loads, PPU 303 Savage brass volume is considerably less than the old 303 brass. There are some 303 loads for 110 grainers listed in the older Lyman manuals that you can't even get the listed powder charges all in the case.

If you mean that Ball powders are dirty, I hear you. I don’t plink much, my range work is to establish loads and then I just hunt w/‘em... lots of carrying and little shooting. The LVR does take further advantage of the innovative idea Savage had to go with a heavier bullet instead of just duplicating the 30WCF, which I think you mentioned. Im guessing that the 303 case design was intended to enhance that innovation also. They are about equal until you load 190 grain bullets and perhaps 180s; the longer bullets diminish the case capacity of the 30WCF but not the 303Sav. Thanks for the tip on PPU cases, I will give that proper consideration.

Case capacity differences between .303 and .30-30 is negligible. In fact, my standard hunting load with 190's in both of them uses the same weight of powder, 28gr. 3031, and the difference in velocity with equal length barrels isn't worth telling your bartender about.

Since it sounds like you've done your due diligence regarding loading protocols, could it be the bedding of the fore arm is messing with you during your pursuit of 190 grain accuracy? Different barrel harmonics with different weight bullets, and wonky fore arm pressure allowing accuracy with some but not others and some velocities but not others. Next step I would try would be shooting it of the bench with the fore arm removed entirely to see what happens. If accuracy improves then you know you have to address fore arm bedding. Perhaps the old trick of installing an O-ring at the screw/barrel interface would help in that instance?

The 190's shoot "minute of Mule Deer" in my 99 and at about 2000 FPS really put the smack down on on deer. LOVE THEM! I'm shooting IMR 4320, but the curved butt plate hurts.

Mine's got the straight hard rubber plate, so it's not bad, but they definitely get my attention more than the lightweight plinking bullets I shoot through it most of the time 🤠

I was running 4320 through mine with most bullets, but my supply has dwindled since it got discontinued so the bit I have left is reserved for hunting loads now. A4064 has worked out fairly well for me as a 4320 replacement for most applications, but velocities run a little lower with it.

With the Crescent Butt do you move the points down off your shoulder onto the top of your bicep. Lots of old pics show guys shooting with their elbow sticking straight out. That way the points wrap around the muscle and they are quite comfortable to shoot.

“Case capacity differences between .303 and .30-30 is negligible. In fact, my standard hunting load with 190's in both of them uses the same weight of powder, 28gr. 3031, and the difference in velocity with equal length barrels isn't worth telling your bartender about.”

I think it’s fine to use 30-30 data for 303 Sav with 3031 and some other powders with 150, 170 and even 180 grain bullets.

If you are interested in loading the 190 Barnes for 30-30 I would not rely on 303 Sav data entirely. I don’t know if Barnes publishes 30-30 data for their bullet but if you go to 303 Sav data as a guideline, start at least 3 grains under and I’d be very cautious about trying to get within 1 grain of the 303 data, particularly in an 1894 or 336. Max grains for W760 is 36.7 and LVR is 38 and these would be compressed loads.

Anybody have any good recipes for A2495 in the 303SAV? I have a pound and found load data for IMR 4895 for (old) 30REM; I think they published 33 grains with a 170 gr bullet and 35 grains with 150. It appears that I can fit 31 grains of A2495 under a 190 gr Barnes. I read that 2495 was even a bit slower that the two 4895s and thought it might do a decent job with the heavier bullet. Anyone?

A2495 shoots pretty well from mine with a few bullets.

110 Sierra Varminter - 33.5gr
130 Speer FP - 29.0gr
140 Monoflex - 27.5gr

It didn't shoot worth a hoot with the 190s for me. I haven't tried it with 150 or 170s grainers.

I've done a little with LVR and the Bares 190. Out of a 20" 1899H with 30.0 grains, 2.518 OAL average velocity 1772fps with 1.5" group at 50 yards. Easy extraction.

Barnes has 30-30 load data for their 190 here:

https://www.barnesbullets.com/load-data/