Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Barnes 190s in the 303 Savage

I been thinking about this deal.

Perhaps your brass needs annealed?

Charlie Sisk started a thread on axe the gun writers.

Best of luck.

Been a few weeks, but just a bit of follow up on that. The rifle just doesn't seem particularly fond of the bullets, it isn't the brass.

I finally had the cooperation of both time and weather to get back out to shoot again yesterday. Had a couple cloverleaf @50yd loads in the test batches of 130FN that were loaded in the exact same group of brass that the 190s had been loaded in. With an additional resizing on it after the 190 groups were shot.

It's no real skin off my nose, I basically just got the 190s to play with. I have several alternative bullets that shoot dandy through the rifle. It's not like those Barnes hopelessly bad, either. While they are not bugholers, they're still plenty accurate enough for woods work.

Try Leverevolution... put me with the “308 out of a 303” group if you want but the truth is compressed loads with certain powders and for certain cartridges can really improve accuracy by improving consistency in velocity. LVR seems to be one of those powders and its not so bad to get a velocity/power boost along with better accuracy is it? You bought the 190s for their wallop in the first place. You didn’t say what primers... if you were using WLR, try CCI. Test data says they are about the most consistent. Good luck. I pick up my first 303S Model 1899 tomorrow and my plan is 190 Barnes, 150 Silvertips (old/new stock), PPU brass, CCI 200 and LVR powder. Hodgdon says max compressed loads with LVR for 190s are 38 grains, for 150s its 42 grains.

I'm not particularly fond of ball powders in anything much bigger than 223. I have some LVR, but never messed with it much in the 303.

I was using CCI200 primers for most of them. I did a couple groups with WLR, but they weren't any better.

Just a caveat on working up your loads, PPU 303 Savage brass volume is considerably less than the old 303 brass. There are some 303 loads for 110 grainers listed in the older Lyman manuals that you can't even get the listed powder charges all in the case.

If you mean that Ball powders are dirty, I hear you. I don’t plink much, my range work is to establish loads and then I just hunt w/‘em... lots of carrying and little shooting. The LVR does take further advantage of the innovative idea Savage had to go with a heavier bullet instead of just duplicating the 30WCF, which I think you mentioned. Im guessing that the 303 case design was intended to enhance that innovation also. They are about equal until you load 190 grain bullets and perhaps 180s; the longer bullets diminish the case capacity of the 30WCF but not the 303Sav. Thanks for the tip on PPU cases, I will give that proper consideration.

Case capacity differences between .303 and .30-30 is negligible. In fact, my standard hunting load with 190's in both of them uses the same weight of powder, 28gr. 3031, and the difference in velocity with equal length barrels isn't worth telling your bartender about.

Since it sounds like you've done your due diligence regarding loading protocols, could it be the bedding of the fore arm is messing with you during your pursuit of 190 grain accuracy? Different barrel harmonics with different weight bullets, and wonky fore arm pressure allowing accuracy with some but not others and some velocities but not others. Next step I would try would be shooting it of the bench with the fore arm removed entirely to see what happens. If accuracy improves then you know you have to address fore arm bedding. Perhaps the old trick of installing an O-ring at the screw/barrel interface would help in that instance?

The 190's shoot "minute of Mule Deer" in my 99 and at about 2000 FPS really put the smack down on on deer. LOVE THEM! I'm shooting IMR 4320, but the curved butt plate hurts.

Mine's got the straight hard rubber plate, so it's not bad, but they definitely get my attention more than the lightweight plinking bullets I shoot through it most of the time 🤠

I was running 4320 through mine with most bullets, but my supply has dwindled since it got discontinued so the bit I have left is reserved for hunting loads now. A4064 has worked out fairly well for me as a 4320 replacement for most applications, but velocities run a little lower with it.

With the Crescent Butt do you move the points down off your shoulder onto the top of your bicep. Lots of old pics show guys shooting with their elbow sticking straight out. That way the points wrap around the muscle and they are quite comfortable to shoot.

“Case capacity differences between .303 and .30-30 is negligible. In fact, my standard hunting load with 190's in both of them uses the same weight of powder, 28gr. 3031, and the difference in velocity with equal length barrels isn't worth telling your bartender about.”

I think it’s fine to use 30-30 data for 303 Sav with 3031 and some other powders with 150, 170 and even 180 grain bullets.

If you are interested in loading the 190 Barnes for 30-30 I would not rely on 303 Sav data entirely. I don’t know if Barnes publishes 30-30 data for their bullet but if you go to 303 Sav data as a guideline, start at least 3 grains under and I’d be very cautious about trying to get within 1 grain of the 303 data, particularly in an 1894 or 336. Max grains for W760 is 36.7 and LVR is 38 and these would be compressed loads.

Anybody have any good recipes for A2495 in the 303SAV? I have a pound and found load data for IMR 4895 for (old) 30REM; I think they published 33 grains with a 170 gr bullet and 35 grains with 150. It appears that I can fit 31 grains of A2495 under a 190 gr Barnes. I read that 2495 was even a bit slower that the two 4895s and thought it might do a decent job with the heavier bullet. Anyone?

A2495 shoots pretty well from mine with a few bullets.

110 Sierra Varminter - 33.5gr
130 Speer FP - 29.0gr
140 Monoflex - 27.5gr

It didn't shoot worth a hoot with the 190s for me. I haven't tried it with 150 or 170s grainers.

I've done a little with LVR and the Bares 190. Out of a 20" 1899H with 30.0 grains, 2.518 OAL average velocity 1772fps with 1.5" group at 50 yards. Easy extraction.

Barnes has 30-30 load data for their 190 here:

https://www.barnesbullets.com/load-data/