Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Colt 1911A1 1943 - questions

A rebuild like that is still a great gun to own. I have a similar Remington Rand. Yours could sell for up to $2,000 to the right person. Nice gun

This is difficult for me to follow. Are you saying that the patent dates and rampant colt stampings indicate the slide is earlier than the frame?

No, what I am saying is that 1913 is the last patent change. They made minor mods to the frame i.e scallops by the trigger guard. Changes were not worthy of patent since they were mainly cosmetic. Hence the reason that all of the slides up until last production look the same. The Transition model of 24 is the first example.


2. There are crossed cannons behing the right grip. That indicates SA rebuild? When would the rebuild have taken place?

No way to tell when. Colt copied REM Rand serial#’s in that year. Also there was a bunch stolen, recovered and rearmored.

3. The serial on this frame places it in 1943. I'm admittedly clueless on whether this appeara stamped pre- or post-finish. What are you indicating?[/quote]

Magnifying glass, post finish will be sharp edges, pre finish will be polished down to where it looks just like the roll mark.

I had an original Remington Rand that looked practically new. I made the mistake of selling it through a gun store with an owner who's an avid collector of USGI 1911s and A1s.

I priced it right to sell, and it wasn't selling. A year finally passed, and I couldn't believe it didn't sell. I went in and asked a sales clerk there what the deal was, and he said that as soon as potential buyers saw that cracked slide at the ejection port, people weren't interested. I told the guy he was crazy, and that that gun is in pristine condition. I asked to look at it. Sure enough, there was a very obvious crack where he said it was, but the gun I left there certainly didn't have that.

I strongly suspect the owner saw it on consignment there at the shop, switched slides with one he owned, and instantly improved its value.

He's done similar dirty dealing before. I swore that store off for ever selling anything on consignment again after that.

PS I dropped the price nearly by half to account for the cracked slide, and it finally sold, likely for parts.

Man, that sucks!

Happens all the time unfortunately. Silver lining maybe.
Well known auction house had to pull the sale of a pristine 1911A1 pre auction estimate 50-60K. Problem surfaced when owner with provenance of that serial# being in his possession and not for sale.
There was an ole boy out of California that made a pretty good living counterfeiting Singers. Ouch.

What is it worth to me? I don't need to end up ahead (I'm not in it to profit), but I do value any thing's worth heavily on it's resale value. When condition informs value - as it does with guns - big money can be at stake. I'm gathering from the information on this thread and from Gunbroker data that this gun could be worth between ~$1500 and ~$3500. I don't like anything worth $1500 so much that I'd pay $3500!

Magnifying glass, post finish will be sharp edges, pre finish will be polished down to where it looks just like the roll mark.[/quote]


Will you explain the implications of Colt copying Rem's serial numbers? Are you saying that both of the companies had a run of the same serials?

What does the stamp before or after finish tell me about the gun?

I'm not well versed in this stuff, please explain it as though I wear a covid mask in my car while I drive by myself.

Just my quite uninformed opinion…I’d likely buy it for $1500 and walk at $3500. There’s a lot of room in the middle, however. I’d want to see it in person, take it apart and do some research we’re the price in between these two numbers.

$1500 to $2000 is a reasonable range. Based on what people have mentioned, $3500 is extreme IMHO.

For what it’s worth this is exactly what I would be looking for in a military Colt. Don’t care as I have a 1924 Colt. Got everything to prove it hasn’t been fugged up and refinished.

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/1943-colt-m1911a1-us-army-1017.html

Sorry, stepped away from the computer for a bit. The slides patent dates, the ejection port on the A1 was lowered and opened up, which wasn't done on yours. It has the narrow and smaller sights. Looking at the receiver it has scallops behind the trigger guard, arched mainspring housing, longer grip safety and I can't really tell but it appears the hammer is the shorter A1, too. I'm not picking on the gun, just wanted to help you make an informed decision. The fact that you have the 1911 slide on A1 receiver with matching finish, let's you know they were done together during the rebuild. The arsenal stamps let you know it went through the system. Price is what you want to pay. Hope it helps. Ryan

Guys, thanks for all the help. Does anyone have a good idea on a fair sale price?

About 1200 to 2500

Learned 1 thing here, never have any one on here grade a 1911.

984,519 February 17, 1910 February 14, 1911 Model 1911 Government .45 Caliber Automatic Pistol (Colt, Remington and others)

1,070,582 August 23, 1913 August 19, 1913 Model 1911 Improvements, Grip safety

Above are the only patents given out on the 1911. The first expired in 1928 the second in 1930.

These are the five changes on the A1

There were five major visible changes to the .45, as well as many other and less obvious ones. They are as follows:

1. Sights, both front and rear, were increased in size to allow for a wider and more immediately visible sighting notch with a square bottom. Early sights were hard to find and align under stress.

2. The tang, or rearmost extension, of the grip safety was extended rearward over the web of the shooter’s hand. The original design was prone to bite the shooter’s hand when skin rolled up over the short tang and was pinched by the pivoting hammer.

3. Semi-circular relief cuts were installed at the rear edge of the trigger guard on both sides of the frame. This effectively shortened the trigger reach and made the pistol easier to handle for soldiers with smaller hands.

4. The trigger was shortened in its front-to-back dimension and the trigger face was checkered. This was another effort to make the pistol usable in a variety of hands. It created the terminology “long” trigger and “short” trigger.

5. The mainspring housing in the lower rear corner was arched and checkered. This tended to correct the tendency to shoot low when pointed and fired. In fact, it did just the opposite when the gun was raised to eye level and aimed.

You can’t tell the age of a slide by the patent markings period. Other markings will give away the age but not the patent dates.

Addendum

Pistol in question has a 1911A1 slide.
The last 1911 made in 1919 had “Model 1911 US Army” stamped on the right side of the slide. 1911A1 slides were smooth as the “M1911A1 US Army” was moved to the right side of the frame. The only known model to use a A1 frame and 1911 slide was the transition model of 1924.

I got a chance to look at this again. The serial on the slide matches the frame. How can that be, given the above information? Was it stamped later?

Ahh so you solved the mystery of the slide. Hint, 1911-1919 Colts and even Transition models had no serial # on the slide.

All M1911s have only one serial number location and it is on the receiver. In 1937, following a long period with no pistol procurements, the military pistol production restarted (at serial #710001) and Colts began applying the serial number to the slide as well as the receiver. This numbering of the slide and receiver was their normal commercial practice at the time. Colts continued the double numbering until about serial #1140000 when it was discontinued as unnecessary.