Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Israel and their current place in God’s economy.

DC is Israeli occupied territory. I pointed out to my Mom that her little refrigerator map showing persecuted Christians around the globe conspicuously overlooked Israel and occupied Palestine where they are routinely brutalized along with Muslim Arabs. She wondered why the Palestinian women holding her camel for the photo in Jerusalem were less than hearty in their welcome. Poor Mom, her Jews for Jesus group got the best of her.

Everybody wants to leave out the "fulfilled" part. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law by both keeping it perfectly, and suffering the penalty for breaking it. He did both on our behalf. This is why faith in him justifies the sinner. By accepting Jesus's sacrifice on your behalf, you accept Jesus as having kept the law perfectly and suffering the penalty of not keeping it for you.

This might explain why you disagree with the Apostle Paul....because he explained that the seed of Abraham is Yeshua. And by extension, all who are in Yeshua.

Correct.

I would only add - Not just 'in league with' but -- 1 John :18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.

Correct.

And Paul was hallucinogenic. Or an outright liar. And he was disowned by the first Christians.

Which is not much of a testimony......

JESUS was disowned by the Jews.....

Should we reject HIM for their action???

Were Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaiah, Nebuchadnezzar, Daniel, Peter, and John also hallucinogenic, or just outright liars???

There are different views. This is the most uncluttered view that I’ve found.

The distorted view seems to make a distinction that leads to a salvation by law in the OT and by Grace in the NT. Yet Abraham, four hundred years before the law was give, was declared righteous and the father of faith. That disproves the view of law based salvation.

Based on Paul’s writings national Israel was a type of the church/body of believers throughout time. Throughout the OT and God flips the the script and always shows the blessing going to the parison/people of promise rather than the person/people of blood or right. An example: Jacob rather than Esau received the blessing.

Paul develops this theme from the OT text showing that it is the is the people of promise rather than the people of birthright. John in the prologue to the Gospel says the same thing in John 1:9-13.

It’s interesting to talk to people who have done missionary work in and around modern Israel. From all appearances it is a fully secularized Godless nation.

The Talmud is POST 70AD. In about 200 AD, the Jews codified their oral traditions in the Mishna. Then, over the next 2 centuries, they added thousands of rules that they called the Talmud. It was an attempt to tell people what God really meant in all of his laws and they got way out of God's intent on many of them.

The Golden Calf ..

And Other Immoral Acts ..

Precisely.

Yep.

As Jesus hung on that cross, he was the most sinful man who's ever lived because he had the entire world's sin on him. It was so bad that even his father burned his back.

Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

He then said 'It is finished'. He'd paid OUR price for us and salvation is now there for the taking merely by believing that Jesus did it and that he rose from the dead.
Ro 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

As a written document, it's post 70 AD. As you say, it was oral tradition before Christ appeared, and he condemned it as false teaching while on earth.

The Mishna is the oral part. The Talmud was added after 200AD. It's entirely man written and it got far afield on what God intended for man.

No, they didn't just make it all up in 200 AD. It was precisely the oral tradition that had corrupted and dominated official Judaism going back centuries before the birth of Christ, and is precisely what about Judaism that Christ condemned while on earth.

Much of the Talmud is made up. Here's just 1 example:
2000 years earlier, God told them that they can't boil a kid in it's mother's milk. The Canaanites had a ritual where they'd do that then pour the broth over their fields as an offering to some god to have good crops. God was simply saying to not participate in pagan rituals to other gods.
The writers of the Talmud decided that God didn't tell them everything so they set out to say what God forgot to say.

1st, they went beyond goat meat and it's own mother's milk. They said to not boil any meat in any milk.
then they said to not cook any meat in any pot that had ever had milk in it in case there was some milk residue, and vise versa. They needed separate pots for cooking meat and milk.
then, since meat and milk might mix in the stomach, they couldn't eat meat and milk at the same meal. That soon grew to say they couldn't eat any meat and any milk on the same day.
It kept growing. Modern kosher Jews actually have 2 separate sections of their kitchens, each with it's own set of cookware, separate sinks, counter space, refrigerators, etc. One section is for cooking meat, the other for milk. Any mixing of the utensils, counter space, etc. is forbidden. Some of the more well to do Jews actually have houses with 2 kitchens, one for meat, one for milk.

Now tell me that this isn't man-made.

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees and Scribes: "For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

- Mark 7: 8-9

He's speaking of the Talmud before it was codified in written form.

His Father did not 'burn his back.'

Jesus felt as though He was firsaken, because Jesus was fully human (while also fully divine), and did have anxiety and doubt. His suffering means nothing to us unless He suffered as we would. That is why we need not be anxious or doubtful, He took those for us.

This all being part of God's plan to offer us salvation, how could He forsake himself?

Or maybe I misunderstand your post.

I think he meant 'turned'........ not burned...