Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Apaches Down !

In Alaska yesterday, 3 of the 4 Flyers in 2 Apaches dead.
4 weeks earlier in Kentucky, 2 medevac-configured BlackHawks collided and killed 9.
In-flight training accidents.
Heart breaking.
Army chopper pilot stand-down for safety issues announced today.
I used to get my flying hours in like a sack of potatoes on a Huey in Missouri,
on a Hercules in Alaska.
Prayers for Flyers and Families.
Amen.

Was on tenderfoot bluff along the Tanana River over looking the Richardson Clearwater yesterday.

2 apaches came by, BELOW ME. All of 75 foot above ground level, following the open river. "Sight seeing". There was less than 25 yds distance between the 2 apaches.

This was around noon, and I suspect it was the same 2 that went down a short time later.

Flying that close to the river less than 25 yds apart between both Apaches?!. Flocks of big spring birds (swans and geese) all over the fkn place. Doesn't give much time to avoid obstacles or each other, to avoid collision.

Terrible to hear young soldiers were lost and I hope I'm wrong: severe lack of military discipline flying like that in a non-military training area, or really anywhere.

I reported what I saw to the safety folks investigating the incident.

Thanks for the reply, Michael.
You are as trustworthy a source as I know of,
and you just expanded the available information on this incident immensely.
Only just now, 4 weeks after KY accident, heard official admission that the Blackhawks collided midair in KY, 30 miles northwest of Fort Campbell.
Came down near a residential "neighborhood" in Trigg, Co.

Michael,

I often wonder if anyone is in charge of our young soldiers as I watch the very common event of convoy wrecks on Tenderfoot Hill vicinity. It happens so frequently yet nothing seems to change. I often talk with these young soldiers, and I'd guess the senior NCO at 25 years old. I know I'm preaching to the choir as you've BTDT.

So unfortunate. Couldn't tell you how many times I flew < 2 rotor disks while enroute in training flights. But can tell you how many times while enroute in Afghanistan: 0

RIP!

Lest we forget.

Yes tragic. Prayers for those who perished and their loved ones.

This period where we are between active conflicts can be pretty dangerous for military aviators.

Not saying it applies to this mishap, but the old hats trying to show the new guys “this is how we did it the war”, etc. A little excitement here and there to take the place of that adrenaline from doing real world stuff.

Conversely, when we are involved in a shooting war, the Training Commands have to be alert for guys taking more chances than necessary, pushing the weather, fuel, and a sense of urgency to get students their wings and get them to the “Fleet”.

Unfortunately though, physics and aircraft just don’t care what’s going on in the world. The mishap board will figure it out.

Yep, it was the same two Apaches I saw, they came from Donnelly training area. Terrible thing to realize, I had a gut feeling they were either going to hurt themselves, or somebody else, flying like that.

There is no reason to be flying that close! Lives lost and expensive equipment destroyed…

The last mishap with two fatalities we had in our training wing was a crew flying up a river valley and they couldn’t make a turn. Ugly investigation.

BTDT.

I came close myself, flying up the wrong (of two) canyon in a T-28 in Hawaii. I cleared the far end by maybe a wingspan 😳. Scared the snot of myself. So….”by the grace of God…”

That cured me of “flat hatting”! I realized that flying high performance Navy aircraft and doing some really neat stuff was cool enough without doing something stupid.

One of the guys in my son’s NG unit, his father is investigating this crash. From what my son has told me as he’s a flyer himself, enlisted aircrew, this unit has a reputation of breaking aviation safety rules.

Hudge, I haven't heard back from any of the usarak nor the novocel investigators to take my statement as an official disclosure. Only reporting what I saw to former pilots, and front desk kinda folks.

I suspect they don't want to hear what I have to say, which is sad. I was probably the last person who saw these guys.

In addition to loosing young soldier's lives for no good reason, this lack of military discipline is probably a 40 million dollar fk up.

The cost of investigation,the loss of equipment, recovery of equipment, response to the crash site, the life insurance pay-out to all the policy holders.

All too often, they keep sht like this hush hush,to protect some fkn high ranking officer in charge, rather than firing him. They construct a glorious narrative, upon closing out the investigation that barely resembles the truth.

Saw this all too often, soldiers lives lost for not a good enough reason. The officers in charge, going on to retirement.

Mainer,

My son Sammy old me this investigator was flown in to the crash sight in a matter of hours. Seems like he spent just a few hours on the sight as well. As far as them flying too close, I’m not surprised. Rumor has it complaints had been filed saying the same in the past and nothing happened.

During my time in the Air Force I did lots of weather support for the Army. Right before I got to Ft. Hood, we had a weather forecaster put on court martial due to a helo crash he provided the flight weather for. Pilots blamed bad weather and such, finally came out in the court martial the pilots were not digging it and out NCO was cleared of any wrong doing.

My son is headed to alaska for his next duty station
Hope they get them squared away he flys blackhawks

I don’t know how it is in the Army, but for a Navy investigation the head of the mishap board would be someone outside the unit.

Many years ago I operated a KC-135 Flt Sim. It didn't take long to notice the difference between good & poor pilots, just like riding in a car with a friend driving. A few years ago my wife & I flew from Talkeetna & landed on a Glacier on Denali. I sat in a good location to observe the pilot, & within a few minutes I told my wife we were in good hands !!! (if a pilot needs to read the flt manual to attempt a engine restart, he is a dumb ass who didn't bother to memorize something that can save his life !!! )

It’s the same way with the Army and Air Force. The Army NG brought in a civilian, but his son is in the unit, but a wrench turner not a pilot.