Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Retinal detachments from recoil?

I look at about 6,000-7,000 eyes per year and would estimate that 5-10% of them have anomolies that put that individual at increased risk of retinal detachment from the coup/counter coup effects of heavy recoil. So 300-700 eyes per year, but still no retinal detachments that can be traced to this pounding. This is good news of course, but makes me ponder. How many of you have had or know someone first person with retinal detachment secondary to recoil? I know the statistics for RD and they are relatively rare, so lets get some numbers from the fire members and see if (unscientifically) we shooters are statistically more likely to have this problem. Thank you in advance for your help in my informal survey.

Eyedr

there are a few here I've heard of. You'll likely get more data on AR though, there are some serious big bore shooters there that have talked about it. may even be able to do thread searches in both places.

EyeDr...

No corrobative evidence from any shooters I have known over 45 years.
Usualy diabetes, (type 1) in my experiences.Jim

My next door neighbor suffered RDs in both eyes and had about half a dozen surgeries to save one. Has some sight restored in one eye now. They had to fill his eyeball with oil several times, and installed some kind of buckle around the back of the eyeball, which failed once and then they did it again.

He was a competitive trap, skeet, sporting clays and NRA high power shooter for 40+ years. Now shoots only hand guns.

I am aware of one person who experienced retinal detachment after a long day of slug gun training (several hundred rounds through a pump gun). He experienced minimal sequelae. I did not treat him personally but the ophthalmologist was/is a guy I deal with frequently.

I had a detached retina in both eyes, about 2 years apart.

In both cases the surgeon said that my activities were not the cause--I was shooting 7mm rifle and 12 gauge shotgun at the time.

I guess I fit into that small catagory of potential damage.
5 or 6 years ago in my mid 30's The eye docs found macular degeneration in both my eyes. They (yes a couple others were called in to check them out ) suggested doing the laser spot weld on several spots. I asked if it would be a permanate fix and they said no. I declined and was told if it looks like it's snowing when it ain't come back imeadiatly.
I've decided not to start trap, skeet, sporting clay shooting . and even pushed back the desire for a 45-70.
Was I wrong in my choices?

This is an interesting topic. Thanks for starting it.

One thing I'd like to know is if there is any correlation between the size of the shooter and detached retinas. Comparatively speaking, it would SEEM that a 210-pound person could absorb, without less adverse effect, than a 150-pound person. Have you noticed this to be true? Are other factors involved?
DAL357

Didn't John Wooters suffer a detached retina from heavy recoil?

Seems as I remember him writing something to that effect.

Could you save me a Google, there Doc, and let me know if that is painful or not?

Is being in the 5-10%w here you are going to find the most problems? What about lots of heavy magnums without being in that group: still more susceptible? I'm pretty convinced my magnum rifle experiences contributed a good bit to my torn rotator cuff.

I remember John Wooters also...

Recoil wise, I'm not sure, could be the opposite way, the heavy persons body absorbs much more pounding, the lighter just goes with it and can't absorb it... at least on feeling recoil, the heavier the person here, seems the more they complain...

Jeff

Had some forehead skin detachment from heavy recoil. That count?

Thanks for starting this topic. I suffered a detached retina this year. Because of this condition, I have decided to give up shooting the big bores and hunting with a rifle. Fortunately, for me, I have come to prefer archery hunting anyway.

Nobody can say, with certainty, whether recoil was a contributing factor to my detachment. I had many of the classic risk factors for detachment: myopia, age (61 years), previous eye injury, recent cataract surgery, active lifestyle, etc. After being given a clean release following my cataract surgery, I resumed normal activities which included hunting, flying, and boating. I was speeding along in my boat, after pulling crab pots, when I noticed a peripheral loss of vision (inferiormedial quadrant) in one eye. I immediately evacuated myself to medical care where I was diagnosed with detached retina.

Given the risk factors I had, any of my normal activities may have contributed to my detachment. However, my own hypothesis is that it was likely caused (or the risk significantly enhanced) by an ophthalmogist performing cataract surgery without having first done a thorough retinal and virtreous evaluation. Had lattice degeneration been discovered, it could have been easily treated with laser prior to cataract surgery.

I am very fortunate that three rounds of cryo- and pneumatic retinopexy treatments, plus laser treatment of the contralateral eye, has left me with both eyes nearly as good as new. Having already suffered retinal detachment and with the knowledge that I have had lattice degeneration in both eyes, I know that I am at risk (however slight) of having another detachment. Rifle recoil may not be sufficient to cause another detachment but "may not" is not good enough for me. I am responsible for my own health and I am capable of making decisions to preserve my own sight. As much as I enjoy hunting and the shooting sports, I have determined that the risk is simply not worth it. I can have a quality experience with my bow and I can buy meat at the grocery store.

-Dan

I had a Retina detach in my left eye. It was caused by shooting big boomers.
The Retina detached the last Saturday of April in 1993. I was 59 years old at the time. I had been shooting big boomers since the early 1950's.

Don

Thank you all for your responses.

1936-- I can't answer the wrong vs right because it is your choice, in today's eye care those with peripheral retinal thinning from lattice degeneration or paving stone etc., are being treated with laser as standard of care because they are VERY much more likely to detach.

DAL357-- heavier people absorb recoil more, but also are much harder to stop once the mass is moving, so the counter coup is worse in comparison and therefore tends to equalize things based on body mass. There are a lot of physical and physiological forces involved so it is often hard to narrow it to a hot button issue.

RickyD--Lots of heavy recoil no matter what rattles things loose, so we should all know the signs and symptoms of RD. Flashes of light like crackles of lightening even with no lights on, floaters that often look like a snow shower, any curtain, veil or visual field loss especially if progressive. Any of these three in a combination is much worse and requires immediate dilated eye examination.

Wooters did suffer a detachment and went over to handguns.

DMB-- hope repair went well and you didn't need a buckle as that is pretty invasive.

A scleral buckle is used for big detachments. A silicone band is placed over the white part of the eye and then the surgeon sutures the retina to the buckle going from outside to inside and back out to loop around the band.

I welcome more responses if you know someone. Again thank you.

Eyedr

I think I read an article by Wooters a long time ago, about seeing sparks and flashing lights. I remember something about having 30 or 45 or so minutes to get to a surgeon, or you're in real trouble. I always thought of that being a terrible fright.

The first indication of a retina tear is flashing lights in the eye, with blood in the agues humor that make it seem like you are looking through a cirrus cloud in that eye.
The school solution is to see a retina specialist, and MD, within 24 hours. The probability of a complete retina detachment is high after 24 hours, and then you've lost complete sight in that eye.
The fix for my tear involved 300 laser shots circling the tear in the eye; three rings of 100 shots each around the tear to tack the tear so it could heal. Tearing a retina is highly unrecommended... The fix ain't fun, and there was blood in the eye for about 8 months afterwards, which impared full vision in the eye. But, I have full vision in my eye now, and have no lingering aftereffects. I immediately sold all of my big boomers and 12 gage shotguns. I went from a 12 gage to a 410 side by side, and my biggest rifle boomer is a 7mm Mag which sees little use, preferring to hunt with a 7x57, 257 Roberts and a 250 Savage. I also have a 284 Win, but don't shoot it much either.
The probability of a second tear is high, so.... no mo big boomers for me.

Don

I have Juvinile Wet Macular Degeneration and Diabetic Retinopthy. It has caused me to lose most of the vision from one eye and about 80% in the other. I have been shooting heavy recoiling firearms since I was a kid. I do not think any of my vision problems have any direct link to that activity. Except for amybe my service in the US military, but that would be indirectly due to the heavy use of defoliants. But I was not shooting any of it just crawling around in it shooting at the little brown types who were shooting at me.

I wouldn't have revived a thread which is a couple of months old, but for the fact that I'm sitting here recovering from the emergency surgery I had on Saturday to repair a retinal tear in my right (master) eye. It was a real wake-up call: I started seeing a few little flashes Wednesday night, but I didn't think much of them. By Friday the level of floaters had become not only noticeable but distracting, and then a shadow started at the top of my visual field.

By then I was pretty worried, so I called our Eye Hospital and was told to go straight in. After a brief examination I was admitted straight away and lined up for the first available slot in the OR. Pretty scary stuff, especially when I was told that if I hadn't come in I might well have lost the sight of that eye irretrievably before the weekend was over.

Anyway, I have had scleral buckle surgery, which has left me looking like I've been well and truly eye-gouged in a hard-fought rugby match. Interestingly though the ophthalmologist tells me that once the recovery period is over, all going well, there'll be no need to change my lifestyle. He is going to do a bit of "spot welding" in the other retina to reinforce it a bit though.

FWIW I've been shooting a bit over 30 years, I'm 42 now and myopic but otherwise in good health. I've fired a lot of rounds over my life (some tens of thousands), mainly from rifles, but haven't shot that much with heavy recoiling calibres, maybe only 100 rounds or so with calibres over .30/06. The heaviest cartridges I use in shotguns are 1 1/4 oz - lighter for Sporting Clays. I've never really needed big boomers for my hunting and shooting, so as long as I can continue to use the medium calibres I'll be happy enough.

I wish you the best in your recovery.This whole thread makes me pucker.