Plus side is the extra 50lbs of torque over the existing 3.5L V6 and I bet it peaks at a lower RPM as well. Turbo is the way everything gas seems to be headed.
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I had a F150 2016 ecoboost and loved it as well.
There is no question that the engine will not be as durable. These new engines are stressed to the max, low ring tension, turbos.
As I'm really not knowledgeable here, why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines? Is the inherent heavy-duty nature of modern diesel engine construction that decreases potential for problems when they are given force induction? Is boost lower? Folks expect 350k miles out of a turbo diesel engine but are often gun-shy about 250k on a turbo gasser.
As I'm really not knowledgeable here, why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines? Is the inherent heavy-duty nature of modern diesel engine construction that decreases potential for problems when they are given force induction? Is boost lower? Folks expect 350k miles out of a turbo diesel engine but are often gun-shy about 250k on a turbo gasser.
Originally Posted by JPro
As I'm really not knowledgeable here, why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines? Is the inherent heavy-duty nature of modern diesel engine construction that decreases potential for problems when they are given force induction? Is boost lower? Folks expect 350k miles out of a turbo diesel engine but are often gun-shy about 250k on a turbo gasser.
Engine is built heavier , does not have low drag rings , has a much larger then normal oil reservoir, most of the components are gear driven . Supposedly the ignition on a diesel(compression) accounts for less wear than a regular spark ignition. I am not sure if todays diesels are turbo or super charged.
As I'm really not knowledgeable here, why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines? Is the inherent heavy-duty nature of modern diesel engine construction that decreases potential for problems when they are given force induction? Is boost lower? Folks expect 350k miles out of a turbo diesel engine but are often gun-shy about 250k on a turbo gasser.
Even w/ULSD diesel, diesel fuel has a LOT more lubricity than gasoline.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I had a F150 2016 ecoboost and loved it as well.
There is no question that the engine will not be as durable. These new engines are stressed to the max, low ring tension, turbos.
...why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines?
There is no difference. A properly built turbo gas engine is capable of just as much longevity as a normally aspirated one. These people are substituting their opinions and biases as fact.
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I had a F150 2016 ecoboost and loved it as well.
There is no question that the engine will not be as durable. These new engines are stressed to the max, low ring tension, turbos.
...why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines?
There is no difference. A properly built turbo gas engine is capable of just as much longevity as a normally aspirated one. These people are substituting their opinions and biases as fact.
It's being built by Toyota, it'll last.
Last longer then another competing V6 most likely, but a turbo will not last as long as a normally aspirated motor anywhere especially compared to a Toyota motor. Are you that stupid that you think it will have the equal life of a turbo diesel? LMFAO
I am going out on a limb and say that I have owned way more Toyota vehicles then you have had, so there is no bias towards toyota.
I had the Ford with the turbo. Gas mileage was Blah.
Mine got really good gas mileage and ran like a scalded cat , I got a good 6500 miles out of before it had issues. My Truck was dropped off at the Dealership in November 2016 and I finally got the buyback in April of 2017. They spent a month and 1/2 diagnosing a vacuum line issue that caused the 4wd to try to engage while I was driving which ground the crap out of the hubs.
...why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines?
There is no difference. A properly built turbo gas engine is capable of just as much longevity as a normally aspirated one. These people are substituting their opinions and biases as fact.
It's being built by Toyota, it'll last.
I hope so, bought a 2021 Taco. Not excited about the amount of electronics. guess I was aware when I bought it. Lately the lane departure alert comes on for new reason. Have had other thing's come up. I bought a Toyota figuring it could be my last truck and last for long tine. Engine might make it, but the over the top electronics is a concern
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
...why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines?
There is no difference. A properly built turbo gas engine is capable of just as much longevity as a normally aspirated one. These people are substituting their opinions and biases as fact.
It's being built by Toyota, it'll last.
I hope so, bought a 2021 Taco. Not excited about the amount of electronics. guess I was aware when I bought it. Lately the lane departure alert comes on for new reason. Have had other thing's come up. I bought a Toyota figuring it could be my last truck and last for long tine. Engine might make it, but the over the top electronics is a concern
I have 2 2022 vehicles , they are both jammed with electronics. I plan on getting rid of both way before 60k comes around.
I hope so, bought a 2021 Taco. Not excited about the amount of electronics. guess I was aware when I bought it. Lately the lane departure alert comes on for new reason. Have had other thing's come up. I bought a Toyota figuring it could be my last truck and last for long tine. Engine might make it, but the over the top electronics is a concern
I have 2 2022 vehicles , they are both jammed with electronics. I plan on getting rid of both way before 60k comes around.
A while back I picked up a new commuter from Toyota (Corolla hatchback) and it's also packed with electronics and CVT. The lane departure and radar sensor's can be turned off. Driving curvy narrow backroads here that often have sections with missing lane paint, the lane departure will beep often...push the button and it's off.
For a commuter or distance travel, I'm thoroughly impressed with the cruise, radar, lane departure, and steering assist on the little car. I was very skeptical the first couple of months but I've been impressed.
I hope so, bought a 2021 Taco. Not excited about the amount of electronics. guess I was aware when I bought it. Lately the lane departure alert comes on for new reason. Have had other thing's come up. I bought a Toyota figuring it could be my last truck and last for long tine. Engine might make it, but the over the top electronics is a concern
I have 2 2022 vehicles , they are both jammed with electronics. I plan on getting rid of both way before 60k comes around.
A while back I picked up a new commuter from Toyota (Corolla hatchback) and it's also packed with electronics and CVT. The lane departure and radar sensor's can be turned off. Driving curvy narrow backroads here that often have sections with missing lane paint, the lane departure will beep often...push the button and it's off.
For a commuter or distance travel, I'm thoroughly impressed with the cruise, radar, lane departure, and steering assist on the little car. I was very skeptical the first couple of months but I've been impressed.
Yes, I can turn most of that off on one car, so why did I pay for something I am not going to use ? I am not impressed by steering assist or radar cruise control on any car I have driven or yet driven.
I have a camera on one that if I drive across a small dip in a road with the sun shining on it I get the BRAKE message lighting up my dashboard. It does this on Ripply roads as well. It has been back to the dealer twice and they say they get a lot of complaints about it. The other car has flawless electronics, still do not trust it though.
I hope so, bought a 2021 Taco. Not excited about the amount of electronics. guess I was aware when I bought it. Lately the lane departure alert comes on for new reason. Have had other thing's come up. I bought a Toyota figuring it could be my last truck and last for long tine. Engine might make it, but the over the top electronics is a concern
I have 2 2022 vehicles , they are both jammed with electronics. I plan on getting rid of both way before 60k comes around.
A while back I picked up a new commuter from Toyota (Corolla hatchback) and it's also packed with electronics and CVT. The lane departure and radar sensor's can be turned off. Driving curvy narrow backroads here that often have sections with missing lane paint, the lane departure will beep often...push the button and it's off.
For a commuter or distance travel, I'm thoroughly impressed with the cruise, radar, lane departure, and steering assist on the little car. I was very skeptical the first couple of months but I've been impressed.
Mine just came on all by itself. I didn't know what was going. Figured it out, toggled the switch on/off, it was off. Switch position didn't matter. Took it to the dealer, said it was working fine. Drove it, yep, it was off. Drove it fo a day or two and decided to turn it on, didn't work, said it was on. I was ok with that, than two days ago it came back on, switch says it's off.
Im pretty sure they will figure it out, however I don't have a lot of faith in Kendall, and its doubtful any at the dealer really understand some of this stuff.
20K on the truck, so still under warranty, however in the long run I question the durability of some of these over the top electronics and the ability for them to get fixed when they are 10 years old and Toyota has moved on.
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
One thing I've heard is that heat will kill turbos especially after being driven hard, like towing, and then shut off. The 2023 Colorado/Silverado have a 2.7 turbo but with an electric water pump so it can cool the turbo even when the engine is off. I'm certain GM used a cheap piece of crap but I applaud their thinking and will be curious if Toyota follows them.
One thing I've heard is that heat will kill turbos especially after being driven hard, like towing, and then shut off. The 2023 Colorado/Silverado have a 2.7 turbo but with an electric water pump so it can cool the turbo even when the engine is off. I'm certain GM used a cheap piece of crap but I applaud their thinking and will be curious if Toyota follows them.
I am sure every manufacturer has a water cooled turbo. What kills a Turbo is if the oil supply is cut off as it is spooling down.
...why is it that longevity is generally not the issue in turbo diesel engines, but is a sore spot with turbo gas engines?
There is no difference. A properly built turbo gas engine is capable of just as much longevity as a normally aspirated one. These people are substituting their opinions and biases as fact.
It's being built by Toyota, it'll last.
Last longer then another competing V6 most likely, but a turbo will not last as long as a normally aspirated motor anywhere especially compared to a Toyota motor. Are you that stupid that you think it will have the equal life of a turbo diesel? LMFAO
I am going out on a limb and say that I have owned way more Toyota vehicles then you have had, so there is no bias towards toyota.
You guys need to stop drinking before you post.
I'll go out on a limb and say you're an idiot in addition to being FOS.
One thing I've heard is that heat will kill turbos especially after being driven hard, like towing, and then shut off. The 2023 Colorado/Silverado have a 2.7 turbo but with an electric water pump so it can cool the turbo even when the engine is off. I'm certain GM used a cheap piece of crap but I applaud their thinking and will be curious if Toyota follows them.
I am sure every manufacturer has a water cooled turbo. What kills a Turbo is if the oil supply is cut off as it is spooling down.
Only a few have ELECTRIC water pumps and GM has the only trucks that I'm aware of that has them. I'm far from an expert but I agree that oil supply is also very important.
One thing I've heard is that heat will kill turbos especially after being driven hard, like towing, and then shut off. The 2023 Colorado/Silverado have a 2.7 turbo but with an electric water pump so it can cool the turbo even when the engine is off. I'm certain GM used a cheap piece of crap but I applaud their thinking and will be curious if Toyota follows them.
I am sure every manufacturer has a water cooled turbo. What kills a Turbo is if the oil supply is cut off as it is spooling down.
Only a few have ELECTRIC water pumps and GM has the only trucks that I'm aware of that has them. I'm far from an expert but I agree that oil supply is also very important.
Need oil to the bearings on the turbo.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Not allowing for a cool down idle period after running the engine hard, and driving the daylights out them them before the oil is up to temperature is what shortens the life of turbochargers, both gasoline and diesel engines. Reasonable care and frequent oil changes using good quality oil and filters will make them last. We service quite a few forced induction gas powered cars here with 250-300k+ miles on them with the original turbos on them. We see more issues with wastegate valve shafts and diaphragms wearing out than actual turbo failures, if the cars are maintained and treated properly.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Not allowing for a cool down idle period after running the engine hard, and driving the daylights out them them before the oil is up to temperature is what shortens the life of turbochargers, both gasoline and diesel engines.
Yep, I'm very ginger with the go-pedal until I'm up to temp and always allow for at least a short cool-down, sort of depends on how I was just recently driving. Tow the 10K # dry camper, ~`5min idle cool-down. A highway drive with nothing hooked behind, maybe 15-30 sec of idle and then shut down.
I also think the warm-up/cool-down is what's going to be the long-term issue w/gasoline turbo vehicles. My buddy likes to joke that his wife's car's starter bendix is still spinning when she's a block down the road. A turbo of any sort isn't going to last long under that sort of operation.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
Not allowing for a cool down idle period after running the engine hard, and driving the daylights out them them before the oil is up to temperature is what shortens the life of turbochargers, both gasoline and diesel engines.
Yep, I'm very ginger with the go-pedal until I'm up to temp and always allow for at least a short cool-down, sort of depends on how I was just recently driving. Tow the 10K # dry camper, ~`5min idle cool-down. A highway drive with nothing hooked behind, maybe 15-30 sec of idle and then shut down.
I also think the warm-up/cool-down is what's going to be the long-term issue w/gasoline turbo vehicles. My buddy likes to joke that his wife's car's starter bendix is still spinning when she's a block down the road. A turbo of any sort isn't going to last long under that sort of operation.
I used to remote start my F150 and some of the sounds those turbos make at startup are interesting to say the least.
A turbo is another system that further adds to the complexity of any modern engine. The heat a turbo is subjected to when towing and the rpms they spin is quite extreme.
Any bit of dust, like what could easily get through a k&n type filter, will [bleep] up the compressor wheel. Air must be perfectly clean, always.
On break-in: Any sort of debris like manifold gasket material, tiny metal bits, carbon or rust falling off the insides cast iron manifolds,will degrade the turbine wheel.
With a turbo you have: An intercooler and extra pipes, hose clamps and rubber boots where leaks could occur.
More bearings, seals hard parts.
Extra electrical sensors where problems could occur.
Blow-off valves with springs, things and rubber diaphrams. More electrical sensors as well.
Turbos rarely ever last as long as the engine. The entire system will eventually need a rebuild. The exauhst side fasteners exposed to such heat, can actually shear off inside the housings or at the exauhst manifolds, when you try to remove the turbo. Requiring a new replacements of the turbo or even a manifold, rather than a simple rebuild.
To reduce turbo lag, two smaller turbos are oftentimes used, adding extra cost when your warranty expires. More turbos, more piping, more parts, more cost.
Diesel or gas, it's just another system that will need attention.
V type engines, turbos can oftentimes be extremely difficult to get to. Whereas inline engines, they're usually more conveniently located.
A turbo is another system that further adds to the complexity of any modern engine. The heat a turbo is subjected to when towing and the rpms they spin is quite extreme.
Any bit of dust, like what could easily get through a k&n type filter, will [bleep] up the compressor wheel. Air must be perfectly clean, always.
On break-in: Any sort of debris like manifold gasket material, tiny metal bits, carbon or rust falling off the insides cast iron manifolds,will degrade the turbine wheel.
With a turbo you have: An intercooler and extra pipes, hose clamps and rubber boots where leaks could occur.
More bearings, seals hard parts.
Extra electrical sensors where problems could occur.
Blow-off valves with springs, things and rubber diaphrams. More electrical sensors as well.
Turbos rarely ever last as long as the engine. The entire system will eventually need a rebuild. The exauhst side fasteners exposed to such heat, can actually shear off inside the housings or at the exauhst manifolds, when you try to remove the turbo. Requiring a new replacements of the turbo or even a manifold, rather than a simple rebuild.
To reduce turbo lag, two smaller turbos are oftentimes used, adding extra cost when your warranty expires. More turbos, more piping, more parts, more cost.
Diesel or gas, it's just another system that will need attention.
V type engines, turbos can oftentimes be extremely difficult to get to. Whereas inline engines, they're usually more conveniently located.
I was watching a Ford Tech on Youtube describing some of the factors that destroy Ecoboost turbines. Ford has placed strainers in the turbo oil supply line. They will get packed full of carbon from cylinder blow by. Sayonara turbo
I'm not really afraid of turbos on a gas or diesel engine. So long as the accesss is easy, and the maintenance isn't too crazy.
I've run plenty of turbocharged toyota 4wd's. My favorite, being a 12ht.
Raced a hemi-powered truck, night before a first nation's rodeo south of chetwynd BC. I was driving it back to Alaska. Mounties were in full force, as folks poured into chetwyn.
Got it over 100 mph on the straight stretches, stayed right on that dodge's a s s. He couldnt shake me.
until I looked in my rearview and saw a vehicle approaching from behind at a high rate of speed. Immediately slowed down to the speed limit and put on my nerdy perscription glasses.
The Japenese Domestic Import (jdm) hj-60 was all rusty on the hatch, from Japan salty air. Mountie caught up to me, dismissed my entire existence, and passed me. He caught up to that dodge, and turned on his Christmas tree lights.
I honked as I passed by.
Turbocharged toyota sleeper........
Nowadays, I would forgo all the latest toyota truck bllsht and just get a chevy half ton with the little inline six turbo diesel. The only real light-duty truck engine.
I’ve got 205k on a 2015 expedition with a 3.5 ecoboost right now. Im act all in PA at a lax tourney with my daughters and brought the expo. So far the only mechanical issue has been a cam phaser. and plugs and coils but those are wear parts. I’m buying another ecoboost this summer I’m so happy with this one.
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I had a F150 2016 ecoboost and loved it as well.
There is no question that the engine will not be as durable. These new engines are stressed to the max, low ring tension, turbos.
Yep, they for damn sure will not be as durable or reliable as a first gen Tundra. You guys can have them, if that is what turns your crank.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
A turbo is another system that further adds to the complexity of any modern engine. The heat a turbo is subjected to when towing and the rpms they spin is quite extreme.
Any bit of dust, like what could easily get through a k&n type filter, will [bleep] up the compressor wheel. Air must be perfectly clean, always.
On break-in: Any sort of debris like manifold gasket material, tiny metal bits, carbon or rust falling off the insides cast iron manifolds,will degrade the turbine wheel.
With a turbo you have: An intercooler and extra pipes, hose clamps and rubber boots where leaks could occur.
More bearings, seals hard parts.
Extra electrical sensors where problems could occur.
Blow-off valves with springs, things and rubber diaphrams. More electrical sensors as well.
Turbos rarely ever last as long as the engine. The entire system will eventually need a rebuild. The exauhst side fasteners exposed to such heat, can actually shear off inside the housings or at the exauhst manifolds, when you try to remove the turbo. Requiring a new replacements of the turbo or even a manifold, rather than a simple rebuild.
To reduce turbo lag, two smaller turbos are oftentimes used, adding extra cost when your warranty expires. More turbos, more piping, more parts, more cost.
Diesel or gas, it's just another system that will need attention.
V type engines, turbos can oftentimes be extremely difficult to get to. Whereas inline engines, they're usually more conveniently located.
I was watching a Ford Tech on Youtube describing some of the factors that destroy Ecoboost turbines. Ford has placed strainers in the turbo oil supply line. They will get packed full of carbon from cylinder blow by. Sayonara turbo
One reason why most ford guys run the Coyote engines.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
A turbo is another system that further adds to the complexity of any modern engine. The heat a turbo is subjected to when towing and the rpms they spin is quite extreme.
Any bit of dust, like what could easily get through a k&n type filter, will [bleep] up the compressor wheel. Air must be perfectly clean, always.
On break-in: Any sort of debris like manifold gasket material, tiny metal bits, carbon or rust falling off the insides cast iron manifolds,will degrade the turbine wheel.
With a turbo you have: An intercooler and extra pipes, hose clamps and rubber boots where leaks could occur.
More bearings, seals hard parts.
Extra electrical sensors where problems could occur.
Blow-off valves with springs, things and rubber diaphrams. More electrical sensors as well.
Turbos rarely ever last as long as the engine. The entire system will eventually need a rebuild. The exauhst side fasteners exposed to such heat, can actually shear off inside the housings or at the exauhst manifolds, when you try to remove the turbo. Requiring a new replacements of the turbo or even a manifold, rather than a simple rebuild.
To reduce turbo lag, two smaller turbos are oftentimes used, adding extra cost when your warranty expires. More turbos, more piping, more parts, more cost.
Diesel or gas, it's just another system that will need attention.
V type engines, turbos can oftentimes be extremely difficult to get to. Whereas inline engines, they're usually more conveniently located.
I was watching a Ford Tech on Youtube describing some of the factors that destroy Ecoboost turbines. Ford has placed strainers in the turbo oil supply line. They will get packed full of carbon from cylinder blow by. Sayonara turbo
One reason why most ford guys run the Coyote engines.
I’d be surprised if more Coyote F150’s are sold than Ecoboosts (twin turbo). The Coyotes had an oil burn/loss issue that was pretty widespread. Impacted a lot of vehicles before Ford solved it. I know two guys who check the oil in their Coyote F150 with less than 20k miles on both, and maybe 1000-2000 miles after an oil change only to find the oil level wasn’t touching the dipstick.
Turbo systems no doubt add complexity, more components that could potentially fail. However, I know quite a few guys that have them or have had them and the closest thing to a turbo failure on any of them was on my personal truck. I had a leak in a turbo coolant line/fitting that had to be repaired.
The benefit of the turbos is that they can be tuned, as in the case of the Exoboost, to have a diesel like, or at least a more diesel like, torque curve in that it produces very high torque at low rpm. Keep that in mind when considering wear/tear on an engine, especially if you tow much. You have to run a traditional gas engine at much higher rpm to get equivalent torque output than you do a turbo engine. That’s a lot of additional wear on the traditional engine. This is one factor in the longevity of diesels, they run at much lower rpm than even the turbo gas burners.
The coyote is no slouch for sure, but I really like low end grunt of the Ecoboost. Some say there is no replacement for displacement, but it turns out air density is a very much a viable replacement, it just takes some complexity to get it.
Don't speculate when you don't know, and don't second guess when you do.
I also know a guy with a newer F150 with Coyote that is having the oil consumption problem.
A friend has an oil/gas company and has been running Tundras for company trucks for a while. The last couple he bought have been the turbo models. Will be curious to see how they hold up.
The benefit of the turbos is that they can be tuned, as in the case of the Exoboost, to have a diesel like, or at least a more diesel like, torque curve in that it produces very high torque at low rpm. Keep that in mind when considering wear/tear on an engine, especially if you tow much. You have to run a traditional gas engine at much higher rpm to get equivalent torque output than you do a turbo engine. That’s a lot of additional wear on the traditional engine. This is one factor in the longevity of diesels, they run at much lower rpm than even the turbo gas burners.
The coyote is no slouch for sure, but I really like low end grunt of the Ecoboost. Some say there is no replacement for displacement, but it turns out air density is a very much a viable replacement, it just takes some complexity to get it.
This is why we are now seeing the problems with the new Ford 7.3 gasser in trucks that pull heavy a lot. To make the power, the engines spins up to very high revs, and they are not holding up under that regimen.
I also know a guy with a newer F150 with Coyote that is having the oil consumption problem.
A friend has an oil/gas company and has been running Tundras for company trucks for a while. The last couple he bought have been the turbo models. Will be curious to see how they hold up.
It probably has the Plasma sprayed in cylinder liners . I would get rid of ASAP.
The benefit of the turbos is that they can be tuned, as in the case of the Exoboost, to have a diesel like, or at least a more diesel like, torque curve in that it produces very high torque at low rpm. Keep that in mind when considering wear/tear on an engine, especially if you tow much. You have to run a traditional gas engine at much higher rpm to get equivalent torque output than you do a turbo engine. That’s a lot of additional wear on the traditional engine. This is one factor in the longevity of diesels, they run at much lower rpm than even the turbo gas burners.
The coyote is no slouch for sure, but I really like low end grunt of the Ecoboost. Some say there is no replacement for displacement, but it turns out air density is a very much a viable replacement, it just takes some complexity to get it.
This is why we are now seeing the problems with the new Ford 7.3 gasser in trucks that pull heavy a lot. To make the power, the engines spins up to very high revs, and they are not holding up under that regimen.
TINSTAAFL.
Dutch, I'm disappointed to hear this about the 7.3. What sort of problems are they having with them and how wide-spread are those problems? Thanks!
ttpoz
in silvam ne ligna feras (don't carry logs into the forest)
I was too, my son was ready to order a 2 ton with the 7.3 in it for his business. Cheaper, no emissions crap, and almost 1,000 lb lighter, what’s not to like. Our mechanic talked him out of it, he’s had three of those motors come in with major troubles, and none with the diesel. All in trucks that pulled heavy loads routinely. We didn’t get into the details of what rattled loose, exactly, but they were “rebuild the motor” type failures.
I also know a guy with a newer F150 with Coyote that is having the oil consumption problem.
A friend has an oil/gas company and has been running Tundras for company trucks for a while. The last couple he bought have been the turbo models. Will be curious to see how they hold up.
I’m curious on the Tundra twin turbo as well. It seems, by the numbers, they don’t quite have the performance of the Fire 3.5, but Toyota powertrains are typically bullet proof. The outgoing Tundra generation was in production for 10(+?) years. The Ecoboost has been out that whole time, so the bar was set. That’s a LONG time for Toyota to develop, test and verify a new powertrain.
Last edited by drano 25; 06/22/23.
Don't speculate when you don't know, and don't second guess when you do.
I also know a guy with a newer F150 with Coyote that is having the oil consumption problem.
A friend has an oil/gas company and has been running Tundras for company trucks for a while. The last couple he bought have been the turbo models. Will be curious to see how they hold up.
I’m curious on the Tundra twin turbo as well. It seems, by the numbers, they don’t quite have the performance of the Fire 3.5, but Toyota powertrains are typically bullet proof. The outgoing Tundra generation was in production for 10(+?) years. The Ecoboost has been out that whole time, so the bar was set. That’s a LONG time for Toyota to develop, test and verify a new powertrain.
Depending on how the owner maintains their vehicle will determine whether the turbos have a long life . I would assume their blocks are a cut above what most other manufacturers put out.
The benefit of the turbos is that they can be tuned, as in the case of the Exoboost, to have a diesel like, or at least a more diesel like, torque curve in that it produces very high torque at low rpm. Keep that in mind when considering wear/tear on an engine, especially if you tow much. You have to run a traditional gas engine at much higher rpm to get equivalent torque output than you do a turbo engine. That’s a lot of additional wear on the traditional engine. This is one factor in the longevity of diesels, they run at much lower rpm than even the turbo gas burners.
The coyote is no slouch for sure, but I really like low end grunt of the Ecoboost. Some say there is no replacement for displacement, but it turns out air density is a very much a viable replacement, it just takes some complexity to get it.
This is why we are now seeing the problems with the new Ford 7.3 gasser in trucks that pull heavy a lot. To make the power, the engines spins up to very high revs, and they are not holding up under that regimen.
TINSTAAFL.
You inadvertently answered an earlier question a bunch just threw BS at.
Good diesels are built heavier because they have to be, it's not really why they last.
They last, because they loaf. Doing good work at 1500rpm. Not going over 2000, pulling down to 1200, or lower. A big diesel has turned fewer revs at 500k than many gas engines at 300. And it may well hit a million without being opened up.
Electronic fuel management has hugely increased engine life across the board. Gas and diesel. It is also responsible for extended service intervals. Well remember 3k on cars and 10k for trucks, we've doubled that while doubling engine life also.
You know all that Dutch, others might not.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I never thought I'd say it, but I've become somewhat of a fan of turbo engines in recent years. Have only had two, but both put down the low to mid-range power that the larger displacement, natural aspirated engine options could not make. Fuel economy was a fair bit better too. Time will tell on durability, I suppose.
I had a F150 2016 ecoboost and loved it as well.
There is no question that the engine will not be as durable. These new engines are stressed to the max, low ring tension, turbos.
I have a 16 F150 with TT and it's chuggin along just fine.
A turbo is another system that further adds to the complexity of any modern engine. The heat a turbo is subjected to when towing and the rpms they spin is quite extreme.
Any bit of dust, like what could easily get through a k&n type filter, will [bleep] up the compressor wheel. Air must be perfectly clean, always.
On break-in: Any sort of debris like manifold gasket material, tiny metal bits, carbon or rust falling off the insides cast iron manifolds,will degrade the turbine wheel.
With a turbo you have: An intercooler and extra pipes, hose clamps and rubber boots where leaks could occur.
More bearings, seals hard parts.
Extra electrical sensors where problems could occur.
Blow-off valves with springs, things and rubber diaphrams. More electrical sensors as well.
Turbos rarely ever last as long as the engine. The entire system will eventually need a rebuild. The exauhst side fasteners exposed to such heat, can actually shear off inside the housings or at the exauhst manifolds, when you try to remove the turbo. Requiring a new replacements of the turbo or even a manifold, rather than a simple rebuild.
To reduce turbo lag, two smaller turbos are oftentimes used, adding extra cost when your warranty expires. More turbos, more piping, more parts, more cost.
Diesel or gas, it's just another system that will need attention.
V type engines, turbos can oftentimes be extremely difficult to get to. Whereas inline engines, they're usually more conveniently located.
I was watching a Ford Tech on Youtube describing some of the factors that destroy Ecoboost turbines. Ford has placed strainers in the turbo oil supply line. They will get packed full of carbon from cylinder blow by. Sayonara turbo
One reason why most ford guys run the Coyote engines.
The ford 7.3 gas motor is having camshaft issues. I'm not sure how wide-spread the issue is.
When the 7.3 was introduced, Ford said it was designed for longevity in small trucks. It was supposed to be highly reliable.
7.3 is a great gas motor. I'd gladly buy a super duty with that engine. The issues are rare.
Back in the 90's when Toyota was in a fkn truck infancy (a v6 in a t100 was about the best they had), 6bt cummins and 7.3 powerstroke powered heavy duty trucks were doing the heavy work.
Some people need an actual truck to do work, tacoma sure aint gonna cut it.
I have towed heavy with the 7.3 gas truck, and I was very impressed. The transmission shift points was right, everywhere. Steering and brakes were amazing. Much more refined than my ole 7.3 powerstroke.
The ford 7.3 gas motor is having camshaft issues. I'm not sure how wide-spread the issue is.
When the 7.3 was introduced, Ford said it was designed for longevity in small trucks. It was supposed to be highly reliable.
7.3 is a great gas motor. I'd gladly buy a super duty with that engine. The issues are rare.
Back in the 90's when Toyota was in a fkn truck infancy (a v6 in a t100 was about the best they had), 6bt cummins and 7.3 powerstroke powered heavy duty trucks were doing the heavy work.
Some people need an actual truck to do work, tacoma sure aint gonna cut it.
I have towed heavy with the 7.3 gas truck, and I was very impressed. The transmission shift points was right, everywhere. Steering and brakes were amazing. Much more refined than my ole 7.3 powerstroke.
That’s a fact. If you really need a truck, Tacomas or that size truck ain’t going to cut it!
To be fair, I think it depends on what you need the truck for. If it is to weave through old logging roads and down small trails with a moderate payload, then a compact truck like a Tacoma may be just the ticket. I've seen a single-cab Tacoma with 33" bias-ply mud tires fit in some tight spots and cross some creeks that I'd never attempt in a diesel 3/4 ton. I've also hooked up an F450 to loads I'd never dream of putting half of on a Tacoma. Both are trucks. Different needs.
I don't even have either at them moment. I'm rolling a turbo half-ton because I need some towing capacity but not on the level of a 3/4 ton, so I bought what met my needs.
The ford 7.3 gas motor is having camshaft issues. I'm not sure how wide-spread the issue is.
When the 7.3 was introduced, Ford said it was designed for longevity in small trucks. It was supposed to be highly reliable.
7.3 is a great gas motor. I'd gladly buy a super duty with that engine. The issues are rare.
Back in the 90's when Toyota was in a fkn truck infancy (a v6 in a t100 was about the best they had), 6bt cummins and 7.3 powerstroke powered heavy duty trucks were doing the heavy work.
Some people need an actual truck to do work, tacoma sure aint gonna cut it.
I have towed heavy with the 7.3 gas truck, and I was very impressed. The transmission shift points was right, everywhere. Steering and brakes were amazing. Much more refined than my ole 7.3 powerstroke.
That’s a fact. If you really need a truck, Tacomas or that size truck ain’t going to cut it!
Just to say it out loud, your 3/4 ton or 1 ton diesel is not a big truck. If you think it is, I'm putting 51,000 lbs on the trailer behind the Kenworth every Wednesday, and you're welcome to come show me how "big" your little dinky 3/4 ton truck really is.
Horses for courses. Tacomas are great, durable, reliable little trucks, though I find the current mid-size Tacos neither fish nor fowl. Too big for many mountain roads and trails. If that's what you want, good for you. If you want a half ton, good for you. If you need to pull a horse trailer, buy a 3/4 ton diesel. If you need to make money, buy a class 6 or 8 truck.
But good grief, one truck is not better than another because it's bigger than the other. And your weenie doesn't get bigger in a "big" truck, either.
The ford 7.3 gas motor is having camshaft issues. I'm not sure how wide-spread the issue is.
When the 7.3 was introduced, Ford said it was designed for longevity in small trucks. It was supposed to be highly reliable.
7.3 is a great gas motor. I'd gladly buy a super duty with that engine. The issues are rare.
Back in the 90's when Toyota was in a fkn truck infancy (a v6 in a t100 was about the best they had), 6bt cummins and 7.3 powerstroke powered heavy duty trucks were doing the heavy work.
Some people need an actual truck to do work, tacoma sure aint gonna cut it.
I have towed heavy with the 7.3 gas truck, and I was very impressed. The transmission shift points was right, everywhere. Steering and brakes were amazing. Much more refined than my ole 7.3 powerstroke.
That’s a fact. If you really need a truck, Tacomas or that size truck ain’t going to cut it!
Just to say it out loud, your 3/4 ton or 1 ton diesel is not a big truck. If you think it is, I'm putting 51,000 lbs on the trailer behind the Kenworth every Wednesday, and you're welcome to come show me how "big" your little dinky 3/4 ton truck really is.
Horses for courses. Tacomas are great, durable, reliable little trucks, though I find the current mid-size Tacos neither fish nor fowl. Too big for many mountain roads and trails. If that's what you want, good for you. If you want a half ton, good for you. If you need to pull a horse trailer, buy a 3/4 ton diesel. If you need to make money, buy a class 6 or 8 truck.
But good grief, one truck is not better than another because it's bigger than the other. And your weenie doesn't get bigger in a "big" truck, either.
about time Toyota, last good taco had a 4.0 with some torque and well tuned 5-spd....the minivan motor ones were hard to live with, would have only been survivable like the older ones if they had a truck motor lol
ford ranger 2.3 inline 4 turbo 10-spd (no manual) but you can get that motor with 7 Spd manual in bronco sadly...put it in the ranger ya dumb facks...toyota can't be only manual game in town! jeep gladiator has a manual but fack them, they will screw you on any warranty from any angle they can and that pentastar is no longer a reliable lump...so fack them too
Chev designed the 2.7 inline 4 turbo to be a truck motor and is now in the colorado/canyons and is one heckuva motor, 8-spd (lighter than the 10-spd and with all that torque...no need for the 10)
that looks to be a well though out displacement and power level for the taco...now if the daily livability improves like maybe not having to crack the knee off the dash when jumping in and head off the roofline at same time and feeling like sitting on the floor and in the cab of a 90's civic...well maybe they will have a decent mid size truck finally....
looks like ford went to the front of the line in reliability for midsize in consumer reports though, Toyota and honda tied for second or some shizzo, the ford is a pretty premium drivetrain and would be top contender, the drivetrain in the gm's already well proven since it's been out 5 years already without issues and just adding power and warranty, the 2.7 was actually one of only 2 motors gm engineers couldn't kill when they tried to kill it, it's moving their half tons along awesome and I chose it over the 5.3 because I did my research thoroughly and it's an amazing motor
anyway, will be fun to watch how the new turbo taco does over the next couple years and see if it can regain it's reliability top spot again, hope no issues lol
Ford has been making gas Turbo engines since 2011. Yes, they had a few issues the 1st 2 years, but since about 2013 they have proven themselves to be pretty reliable and there are a lot of them pushing 300,000 miles now.
I'm hoping the new Toyota with the turbo engine turns out well. I currently have a 2007 Tacoma with the 4.0 and a 2014 F150 with the 5.0 V8. They have 390,000 combined miles on them. I no longer really need a full-size truck, but I'm going to ride with what I have for about another year. If the new Tacoma looks good, I may replace both with a new Tacoma.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
