Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Fox/bobcat/coyote rifle

I bought an old Winchester M43 in 218 Bee a few months ago. My intention was to split the difference between what I would use for coyote (223) and fox (22 WMR) in case I run into the other one. I wanted something that would not destroy the pelts. The problem is I have been loading all different combos of bullets and can't get any to shoot very well. I am getting 3" to 4" groups (sometimes worse) at 100 yards from a shooting bench. That means it would be a lot worse shooting off hand. I am no sharpshooter but I expected better accuracy.

I am at the point where I am frustrated with the rifle and I want to explore other options. I may take it to a gunsmith but I don't want to sink money into a lost cause. I hunt the woods so I generally won't take long shots but I am still unhappy with it. I get significantly better accuracy from my 22 WMRs.

Anyway, I have been looking for a 17 fireball or 221 fireball but they are always expensive when I find them. (I am not poor but I have a wife who doesn't really appreciate my many hobbies). I have come across some 222 Rem rifles that are costing around $1000 - $1300 or so. That beats the $2,000 - $3,000 I keep seeing for the less common cartridges.

So here is my question: Would a 222 be able to be loaded down to match the velocity of a 218 Bee / 22 Hornet? If so, would it still maintain accuracy? Would a shorter barrel assist in slowing it down to these speeds? (I have seen everything from 18.5" to 26" barrels on 222 Rems.)

[For the record, I have never shot a fox so I am not sure how much damage the 218 Bee would do to them anyway. I have shot coyotes (big northeastern coyotes). This may be a situation where there is no one cartridge that would be relatively fur friendly.]

Thanks for any knowledgeable advice.

Go .222 and don’t look back. 12.7 grains of 4227 with a 45 or 50 grain bullet gives you 22 Hornet velocities, and good accuracy. That’s my Turkey load too.

Also, I know Savage rifles are available for a lot less money. I owned one before and it was garbage. I will never own another one.

Thanks, John

I wouldn't give up on the 218 Bee or 22 Hornet. Sierra does make a bullet that may work for you in your 218 Bee. It is a reproduction of the original Hornet round nose bullet. I have shot them in the Bee, because the Bee won't allow the 40 grain VMax to seat in the case and still fit in the magazine of my Sako L46.

Here it is compared to the 40 Grain VMax in the Hornet...

I've seen them and tried to order but couldn't find any in stock. I have tried 40 gr and 35 grain VMax, Speer 40 grain soft point, 40 grain Sierra Blitz King, 45 grain Hornady Bee bullets, 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and the factory Winchester 46 grain hollow points. Some loads were shooting 10" groups at 100 yards. The factory Winchester loads shot the best. It rifle should not be this difficult to find a load for.

What's the twist rate? Those plastic tipped bullets may be too long to allow for proper stabilization.

This article claims anything over about .600 is too long for a 16 twist Bee.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/218-bee-cartridge-varmint-powerhouse/461387

Thanks. I will measure the bullets when I get home. I doubt they are too long - especially the Winchester factory loads.

Those are probably fine but any of the 40 grain plastics will most likely be too long.

I have a few Sierra 40 grain HP as well as some Nosler Varmageddon 40 grain HP I could send you to try. From 2 articles I just read most are liking the 40-45 grain semi round nose that were intended as Hornet bullets.

Ammoseek.com may yield some results.

You have a PM.

Pic doesn't match description but part number in pic is different than listed so probably just a generic pic.

Do your research to make sure these are legitimate businesses.

https://www.dowdlesports.com/Sierra-Bullets-22-Cal-223-40gr-Hornet-100_p_64551.html

I have some 45 grain Hornet bullets made by Hornady and Speer if you want to try them.

Why pay a bunch (since cost is a concern) for a .222 or other relic when a .223 can be loaded down just as easily? I like the old ones myself, but finding and feeding them can be problematic.

That 46gr Speer FP shoots very well in my 1-16” Hornet, but so do 40gr VMaxes.

There was an article on the .218 in Handloader 342, Feb. of this year. A 43 was used to develop the loads IIRC.

.222 brass is easily made by running.223 brass into a .222 die and trimming it.

Thanks for all of the help, guys. I really appreciate it. I did load 3 dozen of those 45 grain Speer bullets this morning. I will give them a try when I can get to the range. I also have and loaded some more of those 45 grain Hornet bullets by Hornady to try as well. It's been a frustrating process but maybe I will keep at it. Maybe a gunsmith could help. I guess it is possible to replace the barrel if necessary but I'm not in love with the action or stock on this rifle either. I think I just like modern rifles with synthetic stocks better but accuracy could change my attitude.

Pappy, I do own a 223 Rem but I load it for for coyote and long(ish) range varmints. I can shoot 1" at 100 yards with it consistently so a great shooter could probably cut that in half. The reason I have not tried loading down is because I think it will change the point of impact and screw me up with my current loads. I may be crazy but I normally pick a good load and shoot nothing else with each one of my rifles. That way I am confident in my shot and don't need to keep sighting in. Thus, I have about 20 rifles in my safe.

I live in a city (a mile or two from the Philadelphia border) and the nearest public shooting range is over an hour away. It means I can only get to the range on weekends. I am heading to my camp in Vermont this weekend. I may bring the 218 bee with me to test it more but I don't have a shooting bench on my land so I would be shooting off hand or resting on a 4-wheeler. It's not really conducive to testing accuracy.

Thanks Barm and everyone else for the generous offers.

Ive found a reduced load of 16.5 gr of 4198 and a 50 gr SP in the deuce to be " Fur friendly" and it works on all three of the critters you mentioned...

A few fox one night with the deuce.

Less report than full house loads??

Which 4198??

Check your PM. Shot you a number of a reloading shop that did me good on selling and shipping some stuff to me.

I sure like my 600 222 and 700 204 with 32’s. Shot a yapper yesterday mornin with the 222 that looked like a chupacapra!!😂

I have a Win. M43 in .218 B and it shoots very well. Groups under 1" at 1 hundred yards.

My load is 12 gr. Lil' Gun Win. Brass, CCI SPM primers with the40 gr. Speer bullet which will feed from the magazine or the 40 gr. VMax or Nosler Varmageddon loaded single shot. Velocity is 3070 FPS. Can go higher brass doesn't hold up as well. Neck size when possible.

A GREAT squirrel load is 4.3 gr. Unique with either the 40 gr. Speer or .45 gr. Speer Flat nose. Groups under 1/2 inch at 50 yds. Vel. 1600+ FPS.

Lighten up the trigger by unscrewing the trigger spring screw a little and fool with the stock screw tension.

Good Luck!

Hip

204 Ruger in a Ruger American Predator.

Damn I wish marlin would chamber a bee again

I'd sure go for a .222R....the rimmed version for the Marlin. Its pretty popular in Australia.

Ya I would too, just dreaming aloud,

Triple duece with rem factory 50’s works pretty good

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I knew lots of guys in PENN that called foxes when fur was bringing big money, and most of them used a 22 magnum after messing with bigger calibers.

A little bit less report and it doesnt matter which 4198...whichever one you can get. Shot a couple bobcats with it as well, no pelt damage. Basic 50 gr Hornady SP

If you're willing to try and put in a little effort, I don't see why you can't get your current rifle to shoot reduced loads to a usable point of impact. For example, a Sako 22-250 I have is sighted in for 300 yard zero with my hot load. It shoots the medium load an inch high @ 100, so a little lower than the hot load but it's intended for closer ranges so it's perfect. Taking it a step further, I have a small game load that shoots dead on at 30-40 yards. All three loads require no scope adjustment.

Considering the effort, time and components you're putting into making the 218 Bee shoot, scrap it since you already said you're not in love with the action or stock anyway. You know how it goes, you're always going to reach for something else if you don't like it. Just stop wasting your time and sell it.

Put the same effort into working up multiple loads for your primary weapon. It's simpler and requires less hardware. There's no downside to having a more versatile firearm if you don't have to move the scope to get three different levels of performance. I'd call that a win all the way around.

Nice. I know a 222 is a good coyote cartridge. I'm just worried about what it might do to a fox or bobcat pelt. Is that a Remington 600?

That is my plan b at the moment. I am going to buy some Lil' Gun powder and see if that makes a difference with a variety of bullets. I have been using Accurate 1680 exclusively in the 218 Bee loads. I am also going to clean it really well, clean and adjust the trigger and float the barrel if it hasn't already been done.

Plan C is a nice Remington 222 (for $1,200) and is really tempting. I am going to hold off for now to keep the peace at home. (Mostly kidding - she's not that bad)

Try joining Delaware County Field and Stream.
Much closer than 1 hour.
Soup

Dats really a cool little gun!

Hard pass but thanks.

I may have missed it, but if you've been using .224" bullets, it may be very worthwhile to try the .223" .

My uncle collected all kinds of Winchester rifles and in a few he found. 223" bullets shot much better than the .224s did.

I always wanted a Rem 600 in 222. To me, the vent rib wins the cool factor, hands down.

I didn't know this was a thing. There are bullets that are actually .223" diameter?

Yep 600, love it. I wouldn’t worry too much about 222 tearing up hides

Thanks, it sees alotta carry time

Hell ya, I agree. Now I need to install some big dumb swfa turrets and I’ll feel real cool!!😂😂

Yes, made for older 22 Hornets.

Be sure and put red electrical tape around both ends and the turrets.

IMR 4227 or Alliant 2400 can be used to duplicate 22 Magnum velocities.

Especially if you can slow en down or use a regular soft point and not an SX, TNT or Blitz style bullet.

Haha or yellow!! 😂

Ya I’ve been using the rem factory 50 psp, accurate enough don’t leave big exits.

Just got back in, yes it's a thing, limited choices but worth a try.
My uncle had 218s, Hornets, k-hornets that I remember. His one Bee wasn't much of a shooter until he tried the smaller bullets. One other one didn't care as long as they were short. He used a lot of Speer 45gr sp.