Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip 357 Magnum - Still viable for defense?

Last weekend I was breaking in my new S&W M686 plus three inch and shooting old familiar Model 65 three-inch HB.

Nothing formal, just seven- and fifteen-yard practice on B-27 targets with old miscellaneous 357 Magnum and 38 Special +P factory ammunition that I had stashed in a .50 ammo can. Some of this stuff went back to late 80's to the mid 90's and most were partial boxes.

I was surprised how well both guns liked the old Remington 158 gr. SJHP and the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip.

Back in the day I carried a Model 66 with a two- and half-inch barrel, the Model 65 and several other 357 Magnum revolvers loaded with the 145 gr. Silvertip and never felt under gunned here in the southeast.

Is the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip still viable for defense and general duty? I still have a couple of the old 50 count boxes.

Are there better choices these days? What would be good to stash back, let's say 200 - 500 rounds for a rainy day?

My standard handload has been 140 and 158 grain XTP's on top of Accurate #9 for years with no issues.

StarchedCover

There are better loads available, but (firstly) the old Silvertip wasn't so bad a defensive load. It just didn't have the penetration capabilities (controlled expansion) that are today considered minimum for optimum stopping power, and (secondly) today's Silvertip loads are much improved over the old ones from the 1980s, so they actually do penetrate to the recommended minimum now for optimum stopping power, due to improvements in their controlled expansion.

Modern thinking is that a defensive round for police use must be able to penetrate a perp from the side, going through his arm, then through the ribs cage, reaching the heart. So, about 14 inches through ballistic gelatin. The old Silvertips couldn't quite do that.

They don't expand well or consistently and as The Real Hawkeye said they do not penetrate well, at least not in my experience.
The Remington 158 SJHP give excellent expansion

I wouldn’t have any reservations carrying 357 silver tips. Evan Marshall once said to put a good bullet, or two, in the triangle of nipple to nipple to nose and your fight is pretty well decided. Marksmanship is what matters most.

I like the old Win Silvertips. Not because I think they're great SD loads, but because my revolvers like them for accuracy. I stopped buying them when 50 round boxes shrunk, but I still have a few ratbholed.

The WV state police carried them in their 686 revolvers for years. I never heard any complaints.

I carried the 145 gr. Silvertip back in the day in my K frame .357 sixguns. Another load I liked back then was the Remington mid velocity 125 gr. hollowpoint. That 125 gr. mid velocity load ran about 1250 fps from a 4" barrel and was easier to manage shooting fast than the full house magnum loads that ran 1400 fps. That Remington 158 gr. SJHP has always been a good load. There are so many good .357 loads today that it would be hard to go wrong with one.

^^^This^^^

Nowadays, I prefer a 180 gr LBT hard cast WFN bullet at moderate velocity’s.

To answer your question…. Yes

That load will do all a 367 is capable of doing

Yes, buy ammo loaded with Barnes XPB bullets. Very good penetration/expansion no danger of jacket-core separation and no Pb, therefore, Kalifornia approved. The no Pb in ammo is coming sooner or later so buying Pb-free ammo to stash makes sense. I had bullet stock in the barrel, therefore, I do not use old ammo except at close range for practice ammo where I can see every hole after every shot.

I doubt people have gotten any tougher in the last 40 years. Fatter, but not tougher. If t worked then, it’ll work now. I damned sure wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end!

Still yes

whew! Glad to know that load is still 'viable'. I have 800 of 'em left in the locker.

Weren't they still carrying 4" 686s up til about 10 years ago? Got pulled over in Pendleton County and the officer had a 4 " 686 on. Told him I had a CCP he and I talked guns a bit then let me off with a warning for 15 over

I think they switched in the early 90’s to double action S&W semi autos, I think first was the 4006 then to a 45ACP but it wasn’t the 4506. I can’t remember the exact model. It had happened by 96 when I was working security in southern WV and was around them regularly.

WV, AK, and LA state police were the last to convert from revolvers. I can't remember which one was the last to convert.

Thanks for all of the replies.

I saw that SG Ammo had some of the 145 Gr. Silvertips in stock. I ordered a 200-count case and if these shoot as well as the old stock; I'll get another one.

StarchedCover

I've got some Federal 158 JSPs that shoot like crap in my M-27. I'm thinking about trying some Silvertips in hopes they shoot better than the Federals do. Locally, the Federals are all I can find, other than Fiocchi 130gr. FMJs, which make zero sense to me. I don't shoot the M-27 much, but I like to keep some ammo around for it. Having a revolver with no ammo seems pointless. Peckerhead gun is kinda fussy, and I don't feel like loading for it.

American Eagle 158gr JHPs $31.95/50, Remington 125gr JHP $37.95/50, Norma 158gr JHP $29.95/50, Sig Sauer Elite 125gr JHP $21.95/20. Add tax free shipping to your doors if local ordinances allow.
Why pay premium for Silvertips? Is it not just WWB JHPs with nickel plated/washed bullet and case?
I see they have Speer Lawman 230gr .45ACP at $21.95 per box of 50, not a bad price.

There's a dash cam video out there somewhere of I believe a State Trooper putting all six into a fat bastard and then succumbing to a golden BB shot from the fat bastards .22, bullet slipped in between the panels of his bulletproof vest in the armpit area and caught his heart. None of the 6 .357 silver tips penetrated enough to reach vitals on the fat ass and he lived.

Not surprised, in my experience they do not penetrate well

The incident you guys are discussing is the Trooper Mark Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol shooting. I have been told the rounds that Trooper Coates carried on duty at the time were .38+P issued by his agency. The attacker was a fat bastard of 300 pounds. Trooper Coates and the bad guy wrestled in the ditch line, the bad guy firing two shots into the bullet resistant vest of the troopers from a NAA mini .22 Magnum revolver. The vest stopped those two shots from the bad guy. Trooper Coates was able to break away and get to his feet and retreat several steps where he emptied his S&W 686, four rounds striking the bad guy. All four struck the obese bastard in the gut and with a bad angle that didn't send them on a path to the vital organs. After firing his revolver the trooper reached up with his left hand to key his radio mike and fat bastard fired another .22 magnum round which went into the armpit area above the vest and angled into the arteries above the heart. It was a fatal shot. Fat bastard survived and is currently in prison as far as I know. Following this shooting the South Carolina Highway Patrol began issuing .357 Magnum rounds and recalled all the .38+P from duty. If you are so inclined there is a dash cam video on the net. It is not an easy thing to watch or hear. RIP Trooper Coates.

Ya, saw that video of Trooper Coates a long time ago. A rough one for sure.

Guy

The 145 Silver Tip load has been excelent on wild hogs and exits in most cases in my experience. It is one fast killer and they fall and expire as if they were struck by lightening.

I have only used them at close range shooting hogs in a big ring trap. But it sure worked for me on broadside shoulder shots on hogs from beteween 100 and 200 pounds.

I cannot fathom how it would fail as a self defence load except it will exit if that's an issue.

Maybe it was 145 Silvertips they switched to, it's been a long while but my memory has them playing a role in the story somewhere.

Silvertips' claim to fame is it's light aluminum jacket, with serrated cuts to encourage expansion, over a soft lead core. It was the best hollow point available when it came out due to how reliably it expanded, due to the features described above.

I never met Mark himself, but feel like I "knew" him through Trooper friends of his that worked with him, and his father Dave who I met shortly after Mark's death. Dave was as fine a gentleman as this world has ever seen. He actually went to visit Blackburn (killer) every year in prison. He said he forgave him and visited with him to "try to understand". Not sure I could be so forgiving... Dave was instrumental in the Patrol transitioning from the revolvers to Glocks after Mark was killed. Pretty sure they did go to .357 Silvertips between the murder and the time they received the Glock .40s.

Sadly. Dave passed in 2015.

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/irmo-sc/david-coates-6412858

Don't be so sure. Pa Game Commission didn't give up their 586s until 2004, changing to Glock 31 357 Sigs. Their Deputies still have the option of carrying revolvers as duty guns