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This is why I personally would not currently corner cross in Montana. This is the stance on corner crossing in Montana: US v. Causby (1946), Leo Sheep Co. v. United States (1979). http://upom.org/corner-trespass-2/CORNER TRESPASS The term “corner crossing” is a misnomer, traveling across private property to get from one parcel of public land to another at a checker-boarded section corner is trespassing. UPOM has fought tirelessly against legislation aimed at legalizing trespass. Below are the facts about corner trespass, the threats it poses to landowners, and the case law that supports the illegal nature of corner trespassing: 1. Landowners have exclusive control of the airspace above their property. The controlling U.S. Supreme Court case is US v. Causby (1946), which concerned planes descending to low elevations over private property. The US Supreme Court held that there was a taking of private property by occupying the airspace immediately above the property: “If the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere. Otherwise buildings could not be erected, trees could not be planted, and even fences could not be run” . . . Thus, a landowner “owns at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land,” and invasions of that airspace “are in the same category as invasions of the surface…However, it seems to be the consensus of the holdings of the courts in this country that the air space, at least near the ground, is almost as inviolable as the soil itself.”2. There is no assumed easement at checkerboarded corners. The U.S. Supreme Court took up the issue of checkerboarded corners in Leo Sheep Co. v. United States (1979). This Wyoming case concerned the government asserting that it had an assumed travel easement at checkerboarded corners, which would allow it to build roads the public could use to get from one parcel of land to another. The Court flatly rejected that claim as a violation of Constitutional projections against taking of private property. “This Court has traditionally recognized the special need for certainty and predictability where land titles are concerned, and we are unwilling to upset settled expectations to accommodate some ill-defined power to construct public thoroughfares without compensation.3. There is no ‘minimal’ amount of trespass that wouldn’t be considered taking of property To cross a corner, a member of the public must cross all four corners, including the private ones. That is a trespass—a physical occupation of private property. There is simply no authority for the proposition that the government can impose public access across private land for free just because access seems like a good idea for everyone else. The Montana Supreme Court has ruled that it is irrelevant what economic costs it imposes on the private property owner. “[H]owever minimal the economic cost it entails,” the right to exclude others from entering and using …. [private] property” has been repeatedly called “the most fundamental of all property interests.” Kafka v. Montana Dept. of Fish, Wildlife & Parks, 2008 MT 460, ¶71, 348 Mont. 80, 201 P.3d 8 (citing Lingle v. Chevron U.S.A. Inc., 544 U.S. 528, 539 (2005)).Quoting UPOM on corner crossing is hilarious. I stopped in at the Montana F G office and asked a Warden if I corner cross what happens direct quote Corner crossing IS NOT legal in montana without land owner permission Did you ask what code makes corner crossing not legal? The warden is parroting what the department told him to say.
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Hey lost trails Lloyd spilled peanut butter on the shag carpet again sounds like you’ll be busy a while 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂
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Quoting UPOM on corner crossing is hilarious.
Is this more helpful?
US v. Causby (1946),
Leo Sheep Co. v. United States (1979).
“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” Tolkien
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“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” Tolkien
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If I get pulled over for speeding I guess I'm suppose to ask the MHP patrol officer what code it is says I can't. For fuggs sake. I get the feeling Buzzy and the boys are working on a plan to challenge corner crossing in MT. Why doesn't Buzzy challenge the wilderness- NR hunting B.S in his own state or is he afraid to ruffle the feathers on federal land because of his cushy job
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Campfire Ranger
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If I get pulled over for speeding I guess I'm suppose to ask the MHP patrol officer what code it is says I can't. For fuggs sake. I get the feeling Buzzy and the boys are working on a plan to challenge corner crossing in MT. Why doesn't Buzzy challenge the wilderness- NR hunting B.S in his own state or is he afraid to ruffle the feathers on federal land because of his cushy job 👍
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If I get pulled over for speeding I guess I'm suppose to ask the MHP patrol officer what code it is says I can't. For fuggs sake. I get the feeling Buzzy and the boys are working on a plan to challenge corner crossing in MT. Why doesn't Buzzy challenge the wilderness- NR hunting B.S in his own state or is he afraid to ruffle the feathers on federal land because of his cushy job Everyone knows speeding is illegal you don’t need a code. You didn’t get cited by a warden for corner crossing. You walked in looking for info and took the word of a warden on a law that you don’t know if it even exists. There is no code saying corner crossing in either legal or not legal. I guess I need to type in crayon.
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Theres precedent court cases right? Seems everyone knows this but you do I need to write it for you in Crayon SMART ASS CALLNUM!! I still see why you and the BHA - Buzzy boys get along so well
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Theres precedent court cases right?well No. And don’t quote the ones Miller posted as they don’t apply.
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If I get pulled over for speeding I guess I'm suppose to ask the MHP patrol officer what code it is says I can't. For fuggs sake. I get the feeling Buzzy and the boys are working on a plan to challenge corner crossing in MT. Why doesn't Buzzy challenge the wilderness- NR hunting B.S in his own state or is he afraid to ruffle the feathers on federal land because of his cushy job If you get pulled over for speeding, you damn right the specific statute you violated is written on the ticket. Same way with anything you are ticketed with. There is no way to enforce or be found guilty of anything without a violation of the law/statute. It's usually taught in 7th grade civics class, whether it's comprehended or not? That's a different story. Exactly why in Montana, corner crossing is still a gray area in the law. There is no way it's a hunting violation because even the latest crap statement the fwp issued says it will be sent to county attorney's. Does not say you will be ticketed by a warden. Read the trespass to hunt statute, there is no intent to hunt private stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land. That bullchit posted by UPOM won't stand in court, neither Leo Sheep or Causby means a thing in corner crossing. Read Skavdahls ruling regarding both in the Wyoming case. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if UPOM was the group trying to influence the Wyoming case that Skavdahl also raked over the coals in his judgement. Finally the huge difference between corner crossing and the wilderness guide law is that a statute exists in regard to the wilderness guide law, no such statute exists in corner crossing. Plus if you understood and took 2 minutes to use your Google machine, you'd find a Wyoming supreme ruling upholding the wilderness guide law. Also states have the legal right to discriminate against NR hunters any way they see fit, up to and including not issuing a single NR hunting license. They can discriminate on license fees, season dates, and also tell you where you can and can't hunt without a guide. Thats a federal law reaffirming the rights of states to manage wildlife within their borders. There is nothing to challenge with the wilderness guide law, the only route would be to change statute. While I don't like the law, the fact is most Wyoming residents do because we can get a free guide license to take 2 family/ friends into designated wilderness. It also keeps the hunting less crowded for residents giving them a higher quality hunt in designated wilderness. All this is intuitively obvious even to the most casual observer with a couple firing brain cells to rub together.
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Theres precedent court cases right? l No, there is not. If there was, you would already have it posted.
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Grey area or not I know how a few ranchers feel about it in MT and they being the landowners….
I think outfits like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have not done much but stir the pot on this, rather than take a better tack.
I may be speaking out of turn as I’ve not followed the issue down in Wyoming all that close.
Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
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Theres precedent court cases right?well No. And don’t quote the ones Miller posted as they don’t apply.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Grey area or not I know how a few ranchers feel about it in MT and they being the landowners….
I think outfits like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have not done much but stir the pot on this, rather than take a better tack.
I may be speaking out of turn as I’ve not followed the issue down in Wyoming all that close.
Osky How a few landowners feel about corner crossing is of no relevance. A majority of Montanans feel differently.
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Private land owner abuse is one of the reasons people vote democrat.
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Grey area or not I know how a few ranchers feel about it in MT and they being the landowners….
I think outfits like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have not done much but stir the pot on this, rather than take a better tack.
I may be speaking out of turn as I’ve not followed the issue down in Wyoming all that close.
Osky How a few landowners feel about corner crossing is of no relevance. A majority of Montanans feel differently. Good attitude. That’ll get ya somewhere with the blood and sweat, good weather or bad, market boom or bust folks. Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
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Private land owner abuse is one of the reasons people vote democrat. 😂🤣
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I hope corner crossing becomes legal in Montana, but until then I prefer to not f*ck around and find out.
“If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.” Tolkien
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Grey area or not I know how a few ranchers feel about it in MT and they being the landowners….
I think outfits like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have not done much but stir the pot on this, rather than take a better tack.
I may be speaking out of turn as I’ve not followed the issue down in Wyoming all that close.
Osky How a few landowners feel about corner crossing is of no relevance. A majority of Montanans feel differently. Good attitude. That’ll get ya somewhere with the blood and sweat, good weather or bad, market boom or bust folks. Osky How would you rank their attitude that they feel entitled to keep the public off land they don't own? Land owned by the public specifically.
Last edited by BuzzH; 06/02/23.
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