|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
And I'm talking about H4831sc with the 150's. Reloder 26 with 150's gives the good velocity, but it's no good in very hot temperatures.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305 |
Man, it doesn’t take all this thinking to kill an elk or deer. I haven’t heard a bad combo yet and I’d take those old RN 150’s BSA is shooting before I stayed home.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
Yes, but if you have various options, you would probably choose the most viable.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305 |
Yes, but if you have various options, you would probably choose the most viable. For sure. I just meant there are a lot more that work than don’t.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,825
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,825 |
+1 on that but also I have found that I consider powder availability now and in to the future in developing loads. I don't blame anyone for taking that into consideration.
Last edited by BKinSD; 06/01/23.
"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,087 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,087 Likes: 6 |
Man, it doesn’t take all this thinking to kill an elk or deer. I haven’t heard a bad combo yet and I’d take those old RN 150’s BSA is shooting before I stayed home. Hell yes buddy. I would too!! The friend I got them from said that's all he ever used when he only had a 270 to hunt with. He has a stock pile of those factory loads. The Federal blue box generally perform very well for their price point. You already know that though..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,911 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,911 Likes: 1 |
I use Hunter in my 270. With 140 SST. 3030-3050 fps max load of 55gr was luckily the sweet spot for accuracy and speed.. Had them 3100 fps but accuracy suffered and it was over max (56 gr. 3108-3122 fps)
I think I’m down to last 100 or so of the sst. Bought 500 of Sierra game changers trying to get better hunting bullet as I hear lots of horror stories on sst. 55 gr of hunter, CCI primers, 2.665” base to ogive
130 ttsx with 56 gr of hunter 3100 +/- fps. BTO 2.670
Obviously you want to or can make reduced loads for the kid. Probably stick with 130s at closer to min/start? I have some 150gr Ballistic tips at 2800fps and have more of push vs snap Hunter shot great for me with 140 Berger classsic hunters. 54-54.5-55 all shot great at 2900-3000 fps. Went up to 56.5 at 3130 but groups fell off a bit. Magnum primers were pretty flat, even at 55 gr. Glad this powder shot so well as I have plenty.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067 |
...Saying a deer would not know that H4831sc can't push the 150's at a decent velocity is therefore no authority at all. I get about 2750 fps with a maximum load of H4831sc with the 150's. With the 140's I get just over 3000 fps with a maximum load of H4831sc. I'm far better off using 130's or 140's than 150's with H4831sc. 2800 fps., for a good .277/150 gr. bullet, IS a decent velocity. Even for the lowly SPEER Grand Slam, BC 0.378, that's 2,100 fps./1500 ft-lbs. at 300 yards. No complaints. GR Perhaps in absolute terms that is reasonable. However, relative to what other cartridges and/or bullets and powders can do, it is not very good. Also, in terms of efficiency, such a large case burning so much powder for 2750 fps is not good, relative to what other combinations can achieve. So you are advancing the academic theory of, "dead-er?" Like women, am not too impressed with the new variety all y'all think is so great. The old kind works just fine, and has for almost a hundred years, and the women much longer than that. And killin' game at 3-400 yards with <60 grn. of powder, v. 70 or 80 grn's? Is efficient. And a fast-twist .270 will extend that out to 600 yards. GR Theory of "dead-er": No, just the theory of using maximum point-blank range with a scope that you don't have to play around with turning the dials (and wasting valuable time) before you take the shot at game up to around 400 yards, and having a scope that only weighs around 11 or 12 ounces instead of 1 1/2 pounds. You guys still discussing/arguing about this? Even factory, semi round nosed 150gr ammo will put them where you want at 400 yards. Very easily, I might add. Here's the most recent example I can share with you: Super old rifle, using a 13 oz scope that does not get "dialed": Confirm zero at 100: 200 yards: 300 yards: 400 yards: Crap factory ammo, who needs high bc right: So you are trying to tell us that a more sleek 150gr handload will not work? I am still going to call BS man. The proof is right there in front of you, on paper. The 7" circle on the paper represents a small vital zone. There is no deer walking the face of the earth that is going to absorb one of those 150gr pills and live to tell about it. It will be dead, or "deader" if you prefer. Now, where I used to hunt, elk were mainly on the menu. So I personally feel more comfortable with a 150gr pill in my 270 winchesters. I used to load 150gr Nosler partitions with about 60gr's of RL26 and get around 3,000 fps. That combination is plenty for any elk I've ever seen. That's not saying a 130 won't work either, but I still prefer the 150, even if it's starting velocity is 2,800 fps. YMMV.. Are you still arguing about this...we finished talking about this ages ago? It's better to use maximum point blank range by aiming in the centre of reticle with a 130 or 140 until about 350 yards, then use hash marks from about 350. If the reticle is in the second focul plane, then you don't have changes in range corresponding to each hash mark up to 350 caused by different magnification (because you are aiming in the center of the reticle). Also, the further you get out, the less precise is your aiming when not corresponding with a hash mark because the rate of fall with a low b.c. 150 at 2750 -2800 fps is greater than with a reasonable b.c 130 or 140 driven much faster. If you're hunting elk at longer distance, I'd put away the .270 Win and grab the .338...at least until I can run an 8 twist .270. And it's not that a 130 or 140 kills better than a 150, it's that it's harder to get the low b.c. 150 in the exact right place when you are shooting game at longer distances. IF - the shots will be longer? The NP/150 gr. has a BC of 0.465. That equates to a wappin' Six yards of MPBR over the unassuming Speer GS of the same weight. The TSX/140 gr., BC of 0.473 at 2925 fps, stretches that to 284, Thirteen yards. The deer and hogs just don't seem to appreciate the difference. GR
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
A b.c. of .465 for a 150 .277 is crap. The 150 SuperBulldozer has a b.c. of .710. Even their 140 has a b.c. of .650.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067 |
A b.c. of .465 for a 150 .277 is crap. The 150 SuperBulldozer has a b.c. of .710. Even their 140 has a b.c. of .650. The NP is a good bullet with reasonable BC. The GS is a good Cup-n-Core with a modest BC. ... and the venison and pork taste the same. For 600 yards, the fast-twist 150 and 165 ABLR looks promising, but then, getting closer is the challenge, not the shot. GR
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067 |
And I'm talking about H4831sc with the 150's. Reloder 26 with 150's gives the good velocity, but it's no good in very hot temperatures. A big reason went to H4831 the last go-round, and it has worked out very well. Don't seem to need the extra velocity for the hunting, and the H4831 will be a lot easier on the bore of the rifles. GR
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
And I'm talking about H4831sc with the 150's. Reloder 26 with 150's gives the good velocity, but it's no good in very hot temperatures. RL-26 also isn't as good as H4831 in cold temperatures. At zero Fahrenheit, with 150s the most accurate Reloder 26 handload in my .270 shifted point of impact about 1.5 inches at 100 yards--which would of course be 6" at 400. Zero is pretty common during rifle seasons here in Montana, and below zero not usual--the reason I stick with H4831....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
And I'm talking about H4831sc with the 150's. Reloder 26 with 150's gives the good velocity, but it's no good in very hot temperatures. RL-26 also isn't as good as H4831 in cold temperatures. At zero Fahrenheit, with 150s the most accurate Reloder 26 handload in my .270 shifted point of impact about 1.5 inches at 100 yards--which would of course be 6" at 400. Zero is pretty common during rifle seasons here in Montana, and below zero not usual--the reason I stick with H4831.... You don't prefer Reloder 23 in the .270 as more stable than Reloder 26, but giving higher velocities than H4831sc (though not as high velocities as Reloder 26)?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,652 |
A b.c. of .465 for a 150 .277 is crap. The 150 SuperBulldozer has a b.c. of .710. Even their 140 has a b.c. of .650. The NP is a good bullet with reasonable BC. The GS is a good Cup-n-Core with a modest BC. ... and the venison and pork taste the same. For 600 yards, the fast-twist 150 and 165 ABLR looks promising, but then, getting closer is the challenge, not the shot. GR I am unclear how much hunting you actually do, but it's often the case that you can not get closer to the game without significantly increasing the risk of being seen or simply that getting closer will result in a worse angle or an unclear shot at the game. With the hogs, because of their poor eyesight you can often get closer if the wind is right, but deer, antelope and sheep are a different proposition.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
[quote=Mule Deer] You don't prefer Reloder 23 in the .270 as more stable than Reloder 26, but giving higher velocities than H4831sc (though not as high velocities as Reloder 26)? The best way to compare velocities with certain powders is using the same method of pressure-testing in the same barrel. Hodgdon's listed H4831 data is one that they haven't updated by using piezo-electronic (PSI) method. Instead it's from copper-crusher data, listed as CUP. And their maximum load is only listed at 51,200 CUP, while 54,000 CUP is equivalent to the SAAMI maximum average piezo pressure pf 65,000 PSI. Speer's latest Number 15 manual uses piezo testing, and in the same barrel the maximum charge of H4831SC they list for 150-grain bullets 57.5 grains is 2860 fps from their 24" test barrel. Their maximum load for RL-23 is 54.7 grains for 2874 fps, for an "extra" 14 fps over H4831. I doubt that would make any difference in the field. Plus, I have found H4831SC far more available than RL-23 over the years--and even now. Our main local sporting goods store even had H4831SC in stock the other day.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,509
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,509 |
I have had at least twelve 270’s built with best quality barrels and fitted by really great rifle builders. In a 22” barrel I have never gotten to 2900 in any 22” barrel with any of the 4831’s made since 1985. I was one of the first to work with R26 and with that powder could reach 3000.
With 130’s I have had the best luck with IMR4831 over H4350, R17, R22, IMR7828ssc. I haven’t tried R16 or HUNTER yet.
I have had a 25” and a 26” built but both were cut to 23” then 22.5” then 22”. Those long barrels were quite clumsy.
Last edited by RinB; 06/03/23.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”. Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,067 |
A b.c. of .465 for a 150 .277 is crap. The 150 SuperBulldozer has a b.c. of .710. Even their 140 has a b.c. of .650. The NP is a good bullet with reasonable BC. The GS is a good Cup-n-Core with a modest BC. ... and the venison and pork taste the same. For 600 yards, the fast-twist 150 and 165 ABLR looks promising, but then, getting closer is the challenge, not the shot. GR I am unclear how much hunting you actually do, but it's often the case that you can not get closer to the game without significantly increasing the risk of being seen or simply that getting closer will result in a worse angle or an unclear shot at the game. With the hogs, because of their poor eyesight you can often get closer if the wind is right, but deer, antelope and sheep are a different proposition. Hut a lot - just not from a portable bench, or on my belly from a mat with a bipod. Making excuses for poor fieldcraft does not mean someone else couldn't get closer. And, on a very rare occasion, a shot is passed up. Hunting is like that. GR
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,138 Likes: 10 |
I have had at least twelve 270’s built with best quality barrels and fitted by really great rifle builders. In a 22” barrel I have never gotten to 2900 in any 22” barrel with any of the 4831’s made since 1985. I was one of the first to work with R26 and with that powder could reach 3000.
With 130’s I have had the best luck with IMR4831 over H4350, R17, R22, IMR7828ssc. I haven’t tried R16 or HUNTER yet.
I have had a 25” and a 26” built but both were cut to 23” then 22.5” then 22”. Those long barrels were quite clumsy. Rick, As I pointed out in my post, RL-26 is not all that temperature resistant, either in heat or cold. I will gladly give up 100 fps (or even more) for consistent POI at various temperatures--and H4831 provides that. In my Jack O'Connor Tribute, which of course is a featherweight model on the post-1990 "classic action," 58.5 grains of H4831SC averages 2916 fps from the 22" barrel--without the slightest sign of high pressure. (Can open the bolt with my little finger even at 90 degrees.) With RL-26 the muzzle velocity is higher--but varies more with temperature. In the same rifle point-of-impact changes 1.5 inches at 100 yards when shot at 70 and zero. This change in POI may not happen in other .270s, especially those with heavier barrels, such as the typical Remington 700. But I will gladly give up 100+ fps in muzzle velocity to obtain the same POI at typical Montana hunting temperatures. This partly because I've seen too many big game animals killed very quickly with the 150 Partition at even a lowly 2800 fps--including bull elk and moose. The O'Connor Tribute is also one of the most accurate .270s I've ever owned, out of at least a dozen. But the most accurate was my first .270, a Remington 700 ADL, which regularly shot 3-shot groups around 1/2" at 100 yards with the 150 Hornady Spire Point--and the one time I shot it at 300 yards put three in 1-1/4". It weighed 8 pounds with scope, after I slimmed the stock down a little.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 504
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 504 |
For the OP:
56.7 grains of RL22 with a 130gr Sierra GameKing. Accurate with mild recoil. (58 grains of RL22 is listed as max).
This was the accuracy load in a past Sierra Loading manual from a few years ago. I shot several whitetails under 100 yds with this load and every deer went straight down.
Liars should have good memories. H. Babcock
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,509
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,509 |
John, I need to revisit H4831sc with the 150 Partition. Perhaps I am using charges on the conservative side in my loading. My first requirement is that my rifle go BOOM. I am no longer a member of the red-line club.
Incidentally I am also thinking that I prefer monos because of concerns over lead residue. I have had really great results with 130/129’s loaded to 3100. Want to try the CX 130’s next.
Thanks for you thoughtful input. R
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”. Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
|
|
|
|
594 members (1minute, 1OntarioJim, 222Sako, 01Foreman400, 16penny, 10gaugeman, 65 invisible),
2,495
guests, and
1,422
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,191
Posts18,484,971
Members73,966
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|