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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,073 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,073 Likes: 7 |
Ask this guy. WTH HIT HIM? That was by a 9mm. Blew the lung right out of him. 😳😁 😁
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,198 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,198 Likes: 7 |
Ask this guy. WTH HIT HIM? That was by a 9mm. Blew the lung right out of him. 😳😁 Hmm… Sounds like “wisdom” straight from Brandon himself. Didn’t realize the 9mm was such a hoss. But it must be so if the President says. He wouldn’t lie. What? DF
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,013
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,013 |
Ask this guy. WTH HIT HIM? That was by a 9mm. Blew the lung right out of him. 😳😁 Hmm… Sounds like “wisdom” straight from Brandon himself. Didn’t realize the 9mm was such a hoss. But it must be so if the President says. He wouldn’t lie. What? DF That's what old Brandon did to Cornpop.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,198 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,198 Likes: 7 |
Ask this guy. WTH HIT HIM? That was by a 9mm. Blew the lung right out of him. 😳😁 Hmm… Sounds like “wisdom” straight from Brandon himself. Didn’t realize the 9mm was such a hoss. But it must be so if the President says. He wouldn’t lie. What? DF That's what old Brandon did to Cornpop. That Cornpop a bad dude. DF
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,547 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,547 Likes: 6 |
Well, that video proved nothing as did the accompanying gibberish. Yeah, the cited website should also be taken with a huge grain of salt.
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Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 34
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 34 |
wild video damn I want one...
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 51
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 51 |
I once read John Taylor's book.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Whatever you do, don’t wake up the fast twist 223 shooters, they know nothing kills like a fast twist 223… Pure unadulterated TRUTH!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,271 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,271 Likes: 11 |
Well, that video proved nothing as did the accompanying gibberish. Yeah, the cited website should also be taken with a huge grain of salt. Which website, who-tee-who or Nathan Fosters ?
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,971 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,971 Likes: 4 |
I once read John Taylor's book. I have it. I reread it about once a year. I also have several Wally Taber books. He promotes the 300 Weatherby mag as the perfect all around for all African hunting. They're worlds apart on philosophy
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Bore diameter doesn't matter as much as the EXPANDED diameter of the particular bullet--which is often not closely related to bore diameter.
This can also apply to so-called "solid" bullets, depending on the nose-shape of the bullet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 929 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 929 Likes: 1 |
Bore diameter doesn't matter as much as the EXPANDED diameter of the particular bullet--which is often not closely related to bore diameter.
This can also apply to so-called "solid" bullets, depending on the nose-shape of the bullet. John, Depending on the thicknness of the critter and where you hit it first, is most of the damage kind of done before the the expanded diameter of the bullet really means anything? Inasmuch as lets say you hit a deer/moose broadside with a 308 win and the bullet expands to .6", the lungs and heart certainly have a lot more cavitation than a .6" hole going through them. Or....is the expansion part of that equation and more is more, period? I know what you mean about the solids....wide meplat definitely works better than pointy. But I just kinda figure unless you, lets say, hit a bigass shoulder first and it soaks up all the drama, the final diameter of the bullet aint the primary wounding mechanism unless you're shooting a sloooowww bullet like a pistola? Or I could be way off here. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.
Last edited by Igloo; 07/30/23.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,705 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,705 Likes: 6 |
Ask this guy. 143ELDX?
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,833 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,833 Likes: 6 |
Whatever you do, don’t wake up the fast twist 223 shooters, they know nothing kills like a fast twist 223… Pure unadulterated TRUTH! Absolutely!! A fast twist 223 renders every other cartridge obsolete.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,547 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,547 Likes: 6 |
Well, that video proved nothing as did the accompanying gibberish. Yeah, the cited website should also be taken with a huge grain of salt. Which website, who-tee-who or Nathan Fosters ? The latter.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,271 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,271 Likes: 11 |
Well, that video proved nothing as did the accompanying gibberish. Yeah, the cited website should also be taken with a huge grain of salt. Which website, who-tee-who or Nathan Fosters ? The latter. Neither is worth a hell of a lot beyond entertainment. Who tee doesn't know enough to arrange meaningful tests and Foster is FOS.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,186 Likes: 21 |
Bore diameter doesn't matter as much as the EXPANDED diameter of the particular bullet--which is often not closely related to bore diameter.
This can also apply to so-called "solid" bullets, depending on the nose-shape of the bullet. John, Depending on the thicknness of the critter and where you hit it first, is most of the damage kind of done before the the expanded diameter of the bullet really means anything? Inasmuch as lets say you hit a deer/moose broadside with a 308 win and the bullet expands to .6", the lungs and heart certainly have a lot more cavitation than a .6" hole going through them. Or....is the expansion part of that equation and more is more, period? I know what you mean about the solids....wide meplat definitely works better than pointy. But I just kinda figure unless you, lets say, hit a bigass shoulder first and it soaks up all the drama, the final diameter of the bullet aint the primary wounding mechanism unless you're shooting a sloooowww bullet like a pistola? Or I could be way off here. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. The final diameter of the bullet also has a large affect on the amount of cavitation--which is also affected by velocity. Also, a bullet that expands to a flat-faced or even cupped front results in more cavitation than a rounded "mushroom." Which is also why "cupped" solids do more damage than flat-nosed solids. One common misconception is that different bullets expand slower or faster. But considerable testing shows most start expanding when they hit skin, and normally expand completely by the time they penetrate their own length--and very few big game bullets are even two inches long. This is also why the area around the entrance hole usually has the most bloodshot and shredded meat. The exception to this is some high-BC, hollow-point bullets where the hollow-point is actually closed, or nearly so. Instead of the hollow-point initiating expansion, as it does in hunting bullets with a larger opening, it collapses inward, so expansion's delayed somewhat. This is why Berger Hunting VLDs normally don't expand until penetrating 2-3 inches.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,306 Likes: 2 |
Whatever you do, don’t wake up the fast twist 223 shooters, they know nothing kills like a fast twist 223… Pure unadulterated TRUTH! Absolutely!! A fast twist 223 renders every other cartridge obsolete. Every other one EXCEPT the .223AI
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 929 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 929 Likes: 1 |
Bore diameter doesn't matter as much as the EXPANDED diameter of the particular bullet--which is often not closely related to bore diameter.
This can also apply to so-called "solid" bullets, depending on the nose-shape of the bullet. John, Depending on the thicknness of the critter and where you hit it first, is most of the damage kind of done before the the expanded diameter of the bullet really means anything? Inasmuch as lets say you hit a deer/moose broadside with a 308 win and the bullet expands to .6", the lungs and heart certainly have a lot more cavitation than a .6" hole going through them. Or....is the expansion part of that equation and more is more, period? I know what you mean about the solids....wide meplat definitely works better than pointy. But I just kinda figure unless you, lets say, hit a bigass shoulder first and it soaks up all the drama, the final diameter of the bullet aint the primary wounding mechanism unless you're shooting a sloooowww bullet like a pistola? Or I could be way off here. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. The final diameter of the bullet also has a large affect on the amount of cavitation--which is also affected by velocity. Also, a bullet that expands to a flat-faced or even cupped front results in more cavitation than a rounded "mushroom." Which is also why "cupped" solids do more damage than flat-nosed solids. One common misconception is that different bullets expand slower or faster. But considerable testing shows most start expanding when they hit skin, and normally expand completely by the time they penetrate their own length--and very few big game bullets are even two inches long. This is also why the area around the entrance hole usually has the most bloodshot and shredded meat. The exception to this is some high-BC, hollow-point bullets where the hollow-point is actually closed, or nearly so. Instead of the hollow-point initiating expansion, as it does in hunting bullets with a larger opening, it collapses inward, so expansion's delayed somewhat. This is why Berger Hunting VLDs normally don't expand until penetrating 2-3 inches. Thank you. Understood. My theory was always that even if they started and finished expansion at the same rate, one might do so more violently, causing more tissue damage/destruction through tissue simply not being elastic enough to survive the temporary cavitation than the other. Say, a 30 cal 180 grain ballistic tip vs a 180 grain A-Frame. The innards are quite a bit more pulped than shooting them with a .60" or so non expanding projectile would make them. But, we all learn as we go! Or, ideally, we're supposed to haha. I had not considered mushroomed bullet shape either. Again, thanks for the answer.
Last edited by Igloo; 07/31/23.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,271 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,271 Likes: 9 |
One common misconception is that different bullets expand slower or faster. But considerable testing shows most start expanding when they hit skin, and normally expand completely by the time they penetrate their own length--and very few big game bullets are even two inches long. This is also why the area around the entrance hole usually has the most bloodshot and shredded meat.
The exception to this is some high-BC, hollow-point bullets where the hollow-point is actually closed, or nearly so. Instead of the hollow-point initiating expansion, as it does in hunting bullets with a larger opening, it collapses inward, so expansion's delayed somewhat. This is why Berger Hunting VLDs normally don't expand until penetrating 2-3 inches. Great info, thanks.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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