Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Looking for some loading help

This may run a bit long, but please bear with me as I am about at my wits end. Received my first Shiloh Sharps a few weeks ago, #1 sporter in 45/2.4. My problem lies is loading - have loaded two styles/weights of bullets in two different brands of brass (starline & pmc) over a veg card & 75 grains of FFG. Trouble I am having is a large percentage of the loaded ammo will not chamber in the rifle. All variables being the same, (brass, dies, bullet, powder, wad, etc.) when completed, some cartridges drop cleanly in the chamber, more often they stop with +/- 1/8" protruding. The brass prior to loading drops cleanly into the chamber so the problem lies is the process or component after that. Bullets are 535 gr Lyman mold, some commercial bullets sized .459, some I cast sized .458. Same problem with some 435 gr rnfp from an old Ohaus mold sized .458. Tried seating the bullets deeper, over the front driving band, no help. Trimmed an additional .020 off the PMC brass & tried again, same results. Hoping to benefit from someone else's experience with BPCR. Thanks in advance - JFW

I had to go through the learning curve when I started shooting NRA BPCR silhouette 25 years ago.. So here is my take.

The simplest quickest way to solve the mystery is MEASURE AND CAREFULLY INSPECT the rounds that drop in versus the loaded rounds that hang up. There is SOME dimensional issue with the ones that do not want to fully chamber.

It is most likely either your loaded brass length/diameter at the case mouth after loading causing the issue or it is a bullet bearing surface length issue foward of the case mouth or a bullet nose diameter issue on the nose.

Are your powder charges compressed? If so are you using the bullets to do it or using a compression die?

Many times with long soft match type BPCR bullets are getting "bumped up" during the loading process. When pressure is put on the bullet noses during seating, the pressure flares out the bore riding nose section and causes fit issues with the the rifling.

You could also have inconsistent batch of brass with some having overly thick rims.

Powder compression? I expanded a few cases thusly, disassembled, resized, and loaded with a little less powder. Once fired and sized to chamber, they will hold a bit more powder.

Also, hit the Shiloh forum. Authoritative sources there.

Are you using a compression die to seat the wad on the powder? If not you could be bulging the nose of the bullet. Also check the nose diameter on your bullets if they get much over .450 ahead of the driving band chambering will be a problem.

Also keep in mind that Shiloh chambers are very tight, so if you're crimping the bullets you could be rolling the case mouth a bit much to fit the chamber.
Best accuracy will likely be found with bullets slip fit in the case seated to the lands.
You might also find better accuracy once you get the seating problem solved with 80 or a bit more grains of powder.

Appreciate the advice, some things to check when I next get a chance to mess with it. As far as compression, dropped the powder through a drop tube then pressed the wad firmly down on the powder with a dowel - for sure had some more compression when seating the bullet, possible bullet upset will be one of the first things I check.

I echo Don's advise to use a compression die. Buffalo Arms has the die bodies and appropriate stems to do it right.

You will get far more consistent compression by using a die over a dowel and consistency is the key!

Here's what I use;

Lyman Die Body for cases under 2.5"; LINK

Lyman Compression Plug for .45 Caliber Rifles; LINK

Best wishes for you! I love my Shiloh!

Ed

Just finished placing the order, thanks for help & advise - really appreciate it.

If you're using dies from Lyman, RCBS, or Saeco you can just set the expanding die "M die" to compress the powder.

Glad to help.

Don (Ranch13) has been a great help to me since I got bit by the Shiloh bug a number of years ago, along with several others here. Do a search on this forum and you'll see the names Ranch13, Paul39, gnoahh, Sharpsman, and a few more that have decades of experience with these rifles. All have been great sources of info and help. I have yet to find one of them that doesn't gladly give their time and knowledge!

BTW, what molds do you currently have?

Ed

The best advice I got from my BPCR 'mentors' was to get a compression die and not to seat the bullets with a bullet seating die. I shoot the Lyman 457132 Postell as well as the Lyman 457125 in my Shiloh #3 Sporter 45-90. Bullet seated almost at the top of the most forward grease groove (IIRC), for about 1/8" compression.

So, I agree with Ranch and several others about the compression die's value.

Bit of an update, seems reloading/shooting time is at a premium lately but took a few minutes last night to try a few rounds using the powder compression die. Showing promise, 80 grains FFG compressed under a fiber wad, 535 gr Postell finger pressed to the depth of the wad chambers correctly. Not pleased with the way a roll crip grips the bullet, ordered a taper crimp die last night. Have been loading a lot of different smokeless cartridges for close to 40 years, loading bp cartridge is definitely a different game. Thank you again to all who offered advise.

Don't crimp at all. Only enough to take the flare out of the case mouth and no more.

Should have clarified - was attempting to only get enough tension to hold the bullet in place. Crimp likely wasn't the best choice of words. Thought it would be preferable to use slight tension on the side vs a light roll crimp.

if you're loading for hunting rounds just a very slight crimp is a good thing, but if shooting for small groups, just the neck tension is best.

Folks, can't thank you enough for the help. Took an hour yesterday morning & shot some of the loads created with your help and advice, couldn't have been more pleased with the results. Accuracy was much better, powder seemed to burn more completely/cleanly. Looking forward to working with the rifle & loads more as time allows. If I could impose on your expertise yet again, would appreciate any insight you may offer into cleaning during a firing session. Currently I have been using a blowtube following each shot, after three shots a nylon brush is pushed through, followed by a wet patch & lastly a dry patch. Any suggestions as to frequency/material/etc. would again be appreciated. JFW

Lots of ways to skin a cat on that one.
One of the simplest with greasers is run a flannel patch barely damp with a water-soluble cutting oil and water mix mixed any where from 1 part oil to 10 water or 1-7, on a nylon bore brush, followed by a dry Arsenal patch. Depending on the ambient temp and humidity it might be necessary to run 2 or 3 damp patches between shots.
The Bore wipe systems sold by Buffalo Arms work well, but can be speedy to set up for enough to shoot a match.

This water soluble cutting oil from NAPA is the one I use; LINK.

Some black powders have "harder" fouling than others and will require more frequent cleaning to maintain accuracy and even chambering a fresh cartridge.

Living here in the desert, I don't get any help from ambient humidity to keep fouling soft, so I swab more frequently than when I did in East Texas.

Ed

We’ll said many letters

Thanks, Don.

The late Bill Bagwell taught me well, as did Greg "Crossfireoops" Cameron and Jim "EvilTwin" Martin. It was Jim who hung the nickname "Edtoomanyletters" on me.

As a side note, what powder are you shooting these days? I've been working off of my old stash of KIK, and went looking for more but none is to be found. Is Olde Eynesford back in production?

Ed

I’m still using my supply of OE. Figure if I run out before they have it back in production I’ll hang up the sharps and shoot smokeless stuff
Haven’t heard anything lately about EsteS/Goex production. But I imagine they are up to their ear balls catching up on military, their rocket business and fireworks supply. Sporting grade bp is such a small market it will likely be a while before we see it

My thought is, you are compressing your load with your bullet and like previous writers have suggested, get a compression die. You can get from Buffalo Arms.com.
You might try using a 24" drop tube when loading your powder into your cartridge. This will also help self-compress your powder.
I still would put in a .060" over the powder wad and then compress with the compression die.
For no grease grooves showing, 75gn 2F, try seating the over powder wad, .665" deep - that should put the top of the brass in the middle or on the front driving band.