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Campfire Tracker
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The resurrected Jesus appeared to a lotta people at different times, including an appearance to more than 500 people at the same time. To assume that all of these people were fooled is not a reasonable explanation. At all.
And many of these people were beaten, tortured, and killed for putting their trust and confidence in Jesus. And the ekklesia of Jesus continued to grow like an airborne disease, despite being sandwiched between the Jewish Temple and the Roman Empire ~ both of whom were hostile to them. This is history. To assume that it never happened is not a reasonable explanation. At all. We have nothing from ''all these people.'' We only have what was written decades after the described events by anonymous authors. Paul, a near contemporary, had never met Jesus in the flesh and didn't appear to be aware of some of the things written in the gospels at a later date.
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So religions have a limited life cycle. With Christianity on the decline it looks like Islam will become No. 1 in the not too distant future - must be the true religion. Does truth matter at all, or is it just a popularity contest?
By the way, Osirus was already doing the resurrection thing about 2,300 BCE, and it was much better than the Jesus version. Well, you continue in your error. Osiris, according to myth, was killed and dismembered. Then his wife “tied all the pieces together.” However, there is no record that he came to life again and “walked the earth.” The Osiris myth has him immediately descending into the underworld to presumably rule there. You can’t seem to get anything right. Why do you treat it as a myth? It was documented. After his wife put him back together again, he got her pregnant. That's one alpha zombie! Jesus didn't do that - his corpse just disappeared - hardly compelling. So religions have a limited life cycle. With Christianity on the decline it looks like Islam will become No. 1 in the not too distant future - must be the true religion. Does truth matter at all, or is it just a popularity contest?
By the way, Osirus was already doing the resurrection thing about 2,300 BCE, and it was much better than the Jesus version. Well, you continue in your error. Osiris, according to myth, was killed and dismembered. Then his wife “tied all the pieces together.” However, there is no record that he came to life again and “walked the earth.” The Osiris myth has him immediately descending into the underworld to presumably rule there. You can’t seem to get anything right. Why do you treat it as a myth? It was documented. After his wife put him back together again, he got her pregnant. That's one alpha zombie! Jesus didn't do that - his corpse just disappeared - hardly compelling. Well, let’s see here….. you say it is documented that Osiris came to life and got his wife pregnant. Can you prove this? Or are you just making it up? Does that mean you are reconsidering your belief choices? You'll need to do the hard yards if you want to find the truth for yourself. Start with Google. Makes me smile, I’m gonna mark your response as a capitulation and a hasty and haphazard retreat. Here ya go ya lazy old bastard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_TextsSeek Information on Osiris and Find Information on Osiris…… Don’t Seek, Don’t Find.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Thoughts on Prayer We all want our prayers to be “effective,” so much so that when we focus on the “results” of our prayers, we lose sight of the incredible privilege we have in prayer. That people like us can speak to the Creator of the universe is itself an amazing thing. Even more astounding is the fact that He hears us and acts on our behalf! The first thing we need to understand about effective prayer is that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ had to suffer and die on the cross to even make it possible for us to approach the throne of grace to worship and pray (Hebrews 10:19-25).
Although the Bible offers a great deal of guidance on how we can deepen our communication with the Creator, effective prayer has more to do with the one doing the praying than it does with “how” we are to pray. Indeed, Scripture says, “The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective” (James 5:16), and that the “eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer” (1 Peter 3:12; Psalm 34:15), and, again, “the prayer of the upright pleases Him” (Proverbs 15:8). Prayer saved the righteous Daniel from the lion’s den (Daniel 6:11), and in the wilderness, God’s chosen people benefitted from Moses’ right standing with God (Exodus 16–17). The barren Hannah’s steadfast and humble prayers resulted in the prophet Samuel (1 Samuel 1:20), and the apostle Paul’s prayers even caused the earth to shake (Acts 16:25-26). Clearly, the passionate prayers of God’s righteous children can accomplish much (Numbers 11:2).
We need to make sure that our prayers are in line with God’s will. “This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, he hears us” (1 John 5:14-15). Praying in accordance with God’s will is essentially praying in accord with what He would want, and we can see God’s revealed will throughout Scripture. And if we do not know what to pray for, Paul reminds us that as God’s children we can rely on the Holy Spirit to intercede for us, as “the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will” (Romans 8:27). And since the Spirit of God knows the mind of God, the Spirit’s prayer is always in keeping with the will of the Father.
Additionally, prayer is something believers should do “continually” (1 Thessalonians 5:17). In Luke 18:1, for example, we are told to pray with persistence and “not give up.” Also, when we present our requests to God, we are to pray with faith (James 1:5; Mark 11:22-24), with thanksgiving (Philippians 4:6), with a spirit of forgiveness toward others (Mark 11:25), in Christ’s name (John 14:13-14), and as stated above, with a heart that is right with God (James 5:16). It’s the strength of our faith, not the length of our prayers that pleases Him to whom we pray, so we don’t need to impress God with our eloquence or intelligence. After all, God knows what our needs are even before we ask (Matthew 6:8).
Also, we should make sure we have no unconfessed sin in our hearts when we pray, as this would certainly be an impediment to effective prayer. “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2; cf. Psalm 66:18). Fortunately, “if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).
Another barrier to effective communication with God is praying with selfish desires and wrong motives. “When you ask you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures” (James 4:3). Rejecting God’s call or ignoring His advice (Proverbs 1:24-28), worshiping idols (Jeremiah 11:11-14), or turning a deaf ear to the cry of the poor (Proverbs 21:13) serve as additional obstacles to an effective prayer life.
Effective prayer is a way to strengthen our relationship with our Father in heaven. When we study and obey His Word and seek to please Him, the same God who made the sun stand still upon the prayer of Joshua (Joshua 10:12-13) invites us to come boldly before the throne of grace and pray with confidence that He will extend His mercy and grace to help us in our time of need (Hebrews 4:16). James 5:16 “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.“Thessalonians 5:16 -18 “Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.” Rid yourself of sin by confession before prayer to God. Be that “Righteous Man”. And as I heard in a church gathering remember “Confession without repentance is bragging. ”My wife says I pray like I am talking to someone there with me. After consideration I considered that to be a great compliment from someone so close. For me, prayer is speaking directly to God of the needs that exist, for leadership, and my praise to him, as well as asking him to be with me daily to lend strength to my weakness. Through these prayers that He encourages, righteous strength will be awarded. As far as what effect prayers have? My comment is to a be careful what you ask of Him. Lengthy prayer is often associated with direct blessings, answers to needs, etc.Though God is ready and able to answer he will rarely do so in the manner we want him to use. Without going into detail and writing a book, I will say I have had his presence surround me after hours of intense prayer. The answers he had for my problems were nothing like I had in mind. Nothing at all. Of course my methods had been failures where his have proven effective. His ways are truly not like ours. Again, He spoke to my needs like nothing I had in mind, and on issues I had not considered. I was completely unprepared for his domination. I could never have imagined it. Pray on bro’s. He hears the faithful.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Ephesians 6:18
Verse Concepts
With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
1 Timothy 2:1
Verse Concepts
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
It’s all about Leadership.
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Maybe Bigfoot had the evidence but was abducted by aliens and then turned into a toad by the witches while overseen by a group of ghosts? Twist and turn...we are talking about God the Bible....unless your atheist faith includes the above? LOL!!! There, there. Show us some demonstrable, irrefutable proof of what you believe is real and true for all and we'll go from there. Most people eventually grow out of their imaginary friends. Holy scriptures from God the Bible written thousands of years ago on various continents all virtually stating the same thing and eyewitness reports is the evidence for Christians. If billions of people for thousands of years believed your bigfoot story enough to die for it, it might be too important to just laugh about. Atheist need absolute PROOF...seems these two scuff at our Christian FAITH. They will they just continue to belittle, denigrate, derogate, disparage, pick at, diminish, criticize, decrease, knock, lessen, minify anything pertaining to God the Bible....just put them on ignore and the only time you'll see their degrading post is when someone replies to them with your post included.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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The resurrected Jesus appeared to a lotta people at different times, including an appearance to more than 500 people at the same time. To assume that all of these people were fooled is not a reasonable explanation. At all.
And many of these people were beaten, tortured, and killed for putting their trust and confidence in Jesus. And the ekklesia of Jesus continued to grow like an airborne disease, despite being sandwiched between the Jewish Temple and the Roman Empire ~ both of whom were hostile to them. This is history. To assume that it never happened is not a reasonable explanation. At all. Atheist will never ever believe in God the Bible....They are diseased by their atheistic Last-Word-Itis.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Ephesians 6:18
Verse Concepts
With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
1 Timothy 2:1
Verse Concepts
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, Right on MSmitty7, I pray everyday for our Aussie's atheist souls.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Faith is not belief without evidence. Faith is trusting in what you have good evidence to believe. So true, that is the crux of Faith.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Evidence is what we observe and use to draw conclusions. That's the crux of the problem - making stuff up to try and fit the evidence or conclude the evidence. Science relies on testing and falsifiability, faith relies on unsubstantiated assertions and unfalsifiability, no matter how ridiculous it may sound. There's much in the bible that has been identified as false - the writers didn't see that coming. I suspect that you’re just looking for an argument, but in case you’re not, I don’t think my faith IS a problem. I see it as a solution. I understand the scientific method and agree that faith is different. I’m not a Bible scholar but admit that some of it is beyond my easy understanding. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Feel free to disagree. It’s not up to me to convince you of anything. And BTW, are you sure that “unfalsifisbility” is a word? 🤭 The two atheist keep saying there is no evidence for God’s existence. There are a couple of problems with this line. Starting with the idea of ‘evidence,’ what exactly does one mean by evidence? What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts. Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, “Well then who created God?” What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator. Just put them on ignore...the hard part is seeing their disparaging remarks to your post, when someone else responds with the atheist responses to your post.
Last edited by Raspy; 06/29/23. Reason: spelling
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Campfire Ranger
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In Matthew and Luke, Jesus teaches the Apostles how to pray with the Lord’s Prayer. He tells them not to ask God for anything, since He knows what we need.
How does this admonition square with prayer requests for friends and family? And make no mistake, I believe in the power of prayer, I’m just trying to do it right.
Thoughts?
P Comes to mind: You have not because you ask not. Let your prayers & request be made known unto the Father. If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear my supplication. I can give you the references if you would like. And, there are many more. When you read the synoptic gospels you must consider context.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Maybe Bigfoot had the evidence but was abducted by aliens and then turned into a toad by the witches while overseen by a group of ghosts? Twist and turn...we are talking about God the Bible....unless your atheist faith includes the above? LOL!!! There, there. Show us some demonstrable, irrefutable proof of what you believe is real and true for all and we'll go from there. Most people eventually grow out of their imaginary friends. Holy scriptures from God the Bible written thousands of years ago on various continents all virtually stating the same thing and eyewitness reports is the evidence for Christians. If billions of people for thousands of years believed your bigfoot story enough to die for it, it might be too important to just laugh about. Atheist need absolute PROOF...seems these two scuff at our Christian FAITH. They will they just continue to belittle, denigrate, derogate, disparage, pick at, diminish, criticize, decrease, knock, lessen, minify anything pertaining to God the Bible....just put them on ignore and the only time you'll see their degrading post is when someone replies to them with your post included. The bible is the claim, just as bigfoot, aliens, witches and ghosts are also claims.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Maybe Bigfoot had the evidence but was abducted by aliens and then turned into a toad by the witches while overseen by a group of ghosts? Twist and turn...we are talking about God the Bible....unless your atheist faith includes the above? LOL!!! There, there. Show us some demonstrable, irrefutable proof of what you believe is real and true for all and we'll go from there. Most people eventually grow out of their imaginary friends. Holy scriptures from God the Bible written thousands of years ago on various continents all virtually stating the same thing and eyewitness reports is the evidence for Christians. If billions of people for thousands of years believed your bigfoot story enough to die for it, it might be too important to just laugh about. Atheist need absolute PROOF...seems these two scuff at our Christian FAITH. They will they just continue to belittle, denigrate, derogate, disparage, pick at, diminish, criticize, decrease, knock, lessen, minify anything pertaining to God the Bible....just put them on ignore and the only time you'll see their degrading post is when someone replies to them with your post included. Written in various continents? What have you been drinking?
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Evidence is what we observe and use to draw conclusions. That's the crux of the problem - making stuff up to try and fit the evidence or conclude the evidence. Science relies on testing and falsifiability, faith relies on unsubstantiated assertions and unfalsifiability, no matter how ridiculous it may sound. There's much in the bible that has been identified as false - the writers didn't see that coming. I suspect that you’re just looking for an argument, but in case you’re not, I don’t think my faith IS a problem. I see it as a solution. I understand the scientific method and agree that faith is different. I’m not a Bible scholar but admit that some of it is beyond my easy understanding. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Feel free to disagree. It’s not up to me to convince you of anything. And BTW, are you sure that “unfalsifisbility” is a word? 🤭 The two atheist keep saying there is no evidence for God’s existence. There are a couple of problems with this line. Starting with the idea of ‘evidence,’ what exactly does one mean by evidence? What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts. Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, “Well then who created God?” What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator. Just put them on ignore...the hard part is seeing their disparaging remarks to your post, when someone else responds with the atheist responses to your post. You don't understand what evidence is. The truth is not subjective. Every creationist fails at the "where did god come from" question - not surprised that you would take a humiliating failed swing at the question. If you try and rationalise your position beyond faith itself then of course you are going to come a cropper in any logical argument involving reality - never seen it go any other way. The question is why do you do it? I can only speculate that you must be weak in your faith - you may be an atheist trapped in a believer's mind.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Maybe Bigfoot had the evidence but was abducted by aliens and then turned into a toad by the witches while overseen by a group of ghosts? Twist and turn...we are talking about God the Bible....unless your atheist faith includes the above? LOL!!! There, there. Show us some demonstrable, irrefutable proof of what you believe is real and true for all and we'll go from there. Most people eventually grow out of their imaginary friends. Holy scriptures from God the Bible written thousands of years ago on various continents all virtually stating the same thing and eyewitness reports is the evidence for Christians. If billions of people for thousands of years believed your bigfoot story enough to die for it, it might be too important to just laugh about. Atheist need absolute PROOF...seems these two scuff at our Christian FAITH. They will they just continue to belittle, denigrate, derogate, disparage, pick at, diminish, criticize, decrease, knock, lessen, minify anything pertaining to God the Bible....just put them on ignore and the only time you'll see their degrading post is when someone replies to them with your post included. Written in various continents? What have you been drinking? LOL! I missed that little gem. Maybe he meant "...by various incontinents (sic)...".
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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A prayer for our atheist on the 24Hour Campfire......May we release ourselves from the need to fit every truth neatly into our own language. May we occasionally forget ourselves long enough to remember each other.
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Evidence is what we observe and use to draw conclusions. That's the crux of the problem - making stuff up to try and fit the evidence or conclude the evidence. Science relies on testing and falsifiability, faith relies on unsubstantiated assertions and unfalsifiability, no matter how ridiculous it may sound. There's much in the bible that has been identified as false - the writers didn't see that coming. I suspect that you’re just looking for an argument, but in case you’re not, I don’t think my faith IS a problem. I see it as a solution. I understand the scientific method and agree that faith is different. I’m not a Bible scholar but admit that some of it is beyond my easy understanding. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Feel free to disagree. It’s not up to me to convince you of anything. And BTW, are you sure that “unfalsifisbility” is a word? 🤭 The two atheist keep saying there is no evidence for God’s existence. There are a couple of problems with this line. Starting with the idea of ‘evidence,’ what exactly does one mean by evidence? What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts. Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, “Well then who created God?” What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator. Just put them on ignore...the hard part is seeing their disparaging remarks to your post, when someone else responds with the atheist responses to your post. You don't understand what evidence is. The truth is not subjective. Every creationist fails at the "where did god come from" question - not surprised that you would take a humiliating failed swing at the question. If you try and rationalise your position beyond faith itself then of course you are going to come a cropper in any logical argument involving reality - never seen it go any other way. The question is why do you do it? I can only speculate that you must be weak in your faith - you may be an atheist trapped in a believer's mind. Scientists and atheists can't answer the question of where anything and everything came from any more than a believer could answer where God came from. What's your latest theory? Is it still that nothing exploded and created everything?
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Campfire Ranger
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So let me get this straight, intelligent life can come from nothing, but a Divine Awareness could not…?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Evidence is what we observe and use to draw conclusions. That's the crux of the problem - making stuff up to try and fit the evidence or conclude the evidence. Science relies on testing and falsifiability, faith relies on unsubstantiated assertions and unfalsifiability, no matter how ridiculous it may sound. There's much in the bible that has been identified as false - the writers didn't see that coming. I suspect that you’re just looking for an argument, but in case you’re not, I don’t think my faith IS a problem. I see it as a solution. I understand the scientific method and agree that faith is different. I’m not a Bible scholar but admit that some of it is beyond my easy understanding. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Feel free to disagree. It’s not up to me to convince you of anything. And BTW, are you sure that “unfalsifisbility” is a word? 🤭 The two atheist keep saying there is no evidence for God’s existence. There are a couple of problems with this line. Starting with the idea of ‘evidence,’ what exactly does one mean by evidence? What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. A court of law provides innumerable examples of how two parties can possess the same collection of data, the same power of logic and reasoning, yet argue for completely different interpretations of the data. The old saying is true: the facts do not determine the argument, the argument determines the facts. Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, “Well then who created God?” What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? God is the antecedent of all things in creation and is eternal. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. God is God precisely because He does not have a creator. Just put them on ignore...the hard part is seeing their disparaging remarks to your post, when someone else responds with the atheist responses to your post. You don't understand what evidence is. The truth is not subjective. Every creationist fails at the "where did god come from" question - not surprised that you would take a humiliating failed swing at the question. If you try and rationalise your position beyond faith itself then of course you are going to come a cropper in any logical argument involving reality - never seen it go any other way. The question is why do you do it? I can only speculate that you must be weak in your faith - you may be an atheist trapped in a believer's mind. Scientists and atheists can't answer the question of where anything and everything came from any more than a believer could answer where God came from. What's your latest theory? Is it still that nothing exploded and created everything? There is no reason to insert a god into the equation - it's trying to solve a mystery with another mystery. Religion pretends to know the answers, rather than honestly admit that they don't have all the answers. Also then a good stepping stone for judgement, persecution and murder of those who don't agree. You know, "my god is better than your god", "your god is a sh it god" etc
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
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I had a doctor friend tell me that it’s a greater leap of faith to believe that something came from nothing, than it is to believe in a Creator.
This concept really resonates with me.
Both “religions” require faith.
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
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