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Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 116
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Campfire Member
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Most important is where to shoot them. I suggest your bullet point of impact be a little further back than you would shoot a deer when broadside. Aim about 3-4 inches behind the crease of the shoulder. If they are facing you on all fours, shoot them in the head. Any deer rifle with a good controlled expansion bullet, like a partition, will do just fine. Bears with a lot of fat in the fall are less likely to leave heavy blood trails because the holes plug with fat and fur.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 505 Likes: 2
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I have the understanding that black bear and large hogs require similar bullet performance from an expansion and penetration standpoint. I think the average bear would require slightly more penetration while the average “large” hog will be a slightly tougher medium.
Based on my “research” on lots of test subjects, a 208 gr 30 cal Hornady ELD m driven at roughly 2700 fps, or about as fast as you want to push a 30-06, is the best answer. It gets the job done up close and has the legs to reach out as far as I’m good enough to shoot a stalking rifle. Delivers great penetration while opening up some nasty wounds. It’s not a meat saver, but it gives a large volume cylinder of destruction that prevents much movement.
The wounding tends to be so traumatic, even marginally shot animals rarely are capable of moving far. The sectional density is such that even with the violent nature expansion and fragmentation you get more than sufficient penetration. The best rifle is simply the one that delivers that pill the best for you. For me it’s a bolt rifle with CRF that feels good in my hands, has a nice trigger, and a good low light scope. Ok. Bizarre post. Perhaps it was a “bizarre post”. I wrote it while easing through a wooded swamp using a rifle as described writing somewhat stream of consciousness about why I was carrying the rifle I was. What about it is so bizarre?
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Joined: Jul 2015
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Same as my close in deer rifle:
.35 whelen 7600.
Keeps life simple. Yes sir that Rifle/Chambering is one of the most usable guns in my collection for woods hunting here in PA, WV, and New York. To the OP, black bears arent especially hard to kill. No need to go to Magnum or Safari rifle territory, unless you already have one and shoot it well. My 260lb PA bear was shot at 20yds with 2 240gr 44 Mag Hardcasts out of a Ruger Super Redhawk while I was a driver amd went maybe 75yds and my 305lber was DRT at 60yds with a 180gr from an '06. DRT killed one in Maine at 40yds over bait with a 265gr Interlock out of my 444 Marlin. Good friend of mine has killed 3 over 400lbs here in PA with a 7-08 and 140 Partitions. None travelled far at all. Take a "deer rifle" with good bullets and make shot in the vitals and you will have a dead bear. I have seen them killed with rifles in 243 on up, handguns and shotguns. More importantly I have seen them missed or wounded and unrecovered by guys thinking they needed to have a "big gun" that they dont shoot well or often!!!
Last edited by marktheshark; 07/09/23.
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Campfire Tracker
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I have the understanding that black bear and large hogs require similar bullet performance from an expansion and penetration standpoint. I think the average bear would require slightly more penetration while the average “large” hog will be a slightly tougher medium.
Based on my “research” on lots of test subjects, a 208 gr 30 cal Hornady ELD m driven at roughly 2700 fps, or about as fast as you want to push a 30-06, is the best answer. It gets the job done up close and has the legs to reach out as far as I’m good enough to shoot a stalking rifle. Delivers great penetration while opening up some nasty wounds. It’s not a meat saver, but it gives a large volume cylinder of destruction that prevents much movement.
The wounding tends to be so traumatic, even marginally shot animals rarely are capable of moving far. The sectional density is such that even with the violent nature expansion and fragmentation you get more than sufficient penetration. The best rifle is simply the one that delivers that pill the best for you. For me it’s a bolt rifle with CRF that feels good in my hands, has a nice trigger, and a good low light scope. Ok. Bizarre post. Perhaps it was a “bizarre post”. I wrote it while easing through a wooded swamp using a rifle as described writing somewhat stream of consciousness about why I was carrying the rifle I was. What about it is so bizarre? I think it’s bizarre that a guy can post a response while easing through a swamp with a rifle. Also infers some darn good manual dexterity and stellar multitasking!
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,219 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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This one would be hard to leave behind on such a hunt. It's a Pre-64 .358 Win FWT with 3-9x40 Trijicon duplex/dot. Current fav load is the 178 Shock Hammer over RL-7. I've shown this one before, am impressed with Hammer bullets and do like the .358 Win. DF ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/b4r0DwX.jpg)
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 505 Likes: 2
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Well, I guess a more accurate description would be I was walking a low levee road with swamp on both sides of me, but at the time of that response I didn’t foresee that being particularly significant.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,936
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and the brush is super thick That statement to me, plus the 100 yard shot screams big diameter and bullets that will completely pass through and leave big holes. Bears are not that tough to kill, but can cover ground after the shot. Not something you want in thick cover especially with sparse blood. If It happens you want blood on the ground. From my safe, I would grab one of the following: 338-06 with a 200gr NAB or Ballistic Silvertip. 416 Rem Mag with 350gr A-Frame Marlin 45-70 with 300/350gr Hornady or 350gr A-Frame Ruger 450 Bushmaster with 245gr or 250gr Hornady
Last edited by CRS; 07/09/23.
Arcus Venator
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
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A lever action with a 16" barrel in 358 might work. LOL ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/2NTVEzK.jpg)
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
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Posts: 4,930
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OP
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Bears are not that tough to kill, but can cover ground after the shot. Not something you want in thick cover especially with sparse blood. If It happens you want blood on the ground. This is what I'm looking to avoid. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Joined: Nov 2022
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and the brush is super thick That statement to me, plus the 100 yard shot screams big diameter and bullets that will completely pass through and leave big holes. Bears are not that tough to kill, but can cover ground after the shot. Not something you want in thick cover especially with sparse blood. If It happens you want blood on the ground. From my safe, I would grab one of the following: 338-06 with a 200gr NAB or Ballistic Silvertip. 416 Rem Mag with 350gr A-Frame Marlin 45-70 with 300/350gr Hornady or 350gr A-Frame Ruger 450 Bushmaster with 245gr or 250gr Hornady It looks like you've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread already so I don't have anything profound to add. But I agree with CRS's opinion that based on your criteria, a larger more powerful bullet would be my preferred option over something lighter but still adequate. If I was reaching into my safe I would grab: 30-06 9.3x74r 375 H&H 405 Winchester One of the other members of this forum, CZ550 (aka Bob Mitchell), is an avid bear hunter. He also has a penchant for the larger bores. He seems to enjoy writing about his hunts so you might find something useful in your research by scanning his blog especially if you reload like he does: http://www.bigbores.ca/
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,631 Likes: 1
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Lots of 358 wins recommended, I'll add another one. My bear rifle for pa thick cover is a sako in 358 win 18" barrel fiberglass stock vortex 1x8 viper shooting 250 gr nosler partitions. Weighs 7 1/2 lbs
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Any tube feed lever with flat nose jacketed or cast gas checks from 270 gr weight on up using Deep Curls, Barnes Busters, Swift A-Frames, Rimrock GC, etc. 45-70 or 444 Marlin would suffice nicely from 50-200 yards. Both have the ability to penetrate up to 60” from any angle and provide wounding that rivals .375 or .416 bottle neck bolt gun cartridges at 100-150 yards. Both provide substantial wounding and trauma with substantial blood loss. The other benefit is 5 rounds in a fast action, short barreled lever rifle. Can’t see a better close quarter set up than these two for large game in dark places.
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Joined: Dec 2008
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Marlin .45-70 Gov't Guide Gun with Barnes TSX 300 gr. Bullets would be my choice for the scenario. Before someone now points out, that the .45-70 does not need premium bullets - quite true.
The 300 grains TSX .458 is an outstanding bullet in its own right for the .45-70. I have used it for years on countless hogs and what really caught my eye were the copious blood trails from the reliably fully expanded .458" bullet - goes out to close to an inch.
My load was scary accurate with 5 shots around an inch at 100 yards - way better than needed.
Fit a nice scope (Meopta R2 1,7-10x42 with lighted reticle would be my choice) and I find it hard to think of a better setup for the scenario.
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2005
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Iv taken 3 black bears, using 44-77 40-70 Sharps and good old 45-70, rem 405 , bear was over 400lbs
Deer Camp! about as good as it gets!
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Joined: May 2008
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My vote is .45-70 using a good handloaded 400gr FT or semi-hardcast 465-475gr. I've used Marlins and single-shots for those loads and bears have been flattened on the spot without CNS hits - and shot placement isn't nearly as critical as with smaller calibers. And I've used .35 Whelens and 9.3 x 62s and 7 Rem Mags and.... NOTHING has worked like a .45-70! In fact, my last blog was about the .45-70 as my no.1 choice for punching well above expectations. Another point I'd like to emphasize is that bear hunting is my speciality and I always go perpared for a worst case scenario - an in-your-face-charge! With too many experiences I've learned a couple of very important matters: how smart they are and how treacherous they can be. It's the careless/casual hunter that gets mauled or killed by them! Bob www.bigbores.ca
"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus
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If I was going specifically for black bear I'd take my 350 RemMag out for some exercise. I have some 225gr Partition and 250gr corelokt loaded ammo on hand that should work fine. The rifle has a 1.5-5x20 Vari-X III mounted and should cover anything from "Oh [bleep]" range to 250 yds pretty well.
But any of the rifles I use for deer also work for black bear - 30/30, 300 Sav, .308 Win, maybe just move to heavier bullets in the 170-180gr range. Heck, one of my uncles killed one with a 38-40 Colt Lightning (many years ago).
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Campfire Member
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We like 180,200 and 220 grain partitions in the 308 and 30/06. Always exit although bears don’t leave much of a blood trail. All our shots have been under a hundred yards, mostly using aperture sights.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
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If 358’s are good, here is a pair, both made in 56. I’ve never seen a bear in the wild, would cshit if I did. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/cCXK7FKS/IMG-4177.jpg)
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Posts: 293 |
My vote is for the 4570. I have seen several taken by others with that. My bears were taken with 7remmag 169gr aflame, 33806 210gr partition, 358win 225gr partition. Use what you shoot well and are comfortable with. Saw one that was shot with a 450 marlin. You could put your fist in the exit.
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A 308 Win will kill any black bear at any range from your boots to 350 yards. Black bear aŕe no harder to kill than deer and are not bulletproof.
You get out of life what you are willing to accept. If you ain't happy, do something about it!
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