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I have been led to understand there was a Sako Model L691 rifle.



Anyone know what the difference is between the L61 and the L691 ?



I didn't know they even made a 691 model.



Ted

I am no Sako collector,but I understand the "1" was to tell of the changes from the 69 model.Search over at AR,there's a bunch of Sako collectors there.

From what I've read, I believe the L691 was a long version of the L591, the L591 being a short acion with an approx 2.8" mag box. It was simply made longer to accomodate the 30-06 based rounds and the 2.50" magnum rounds.Contrary to popular believe, all Sako actions were not "sized to the cartridge". The L591 and 691 also had removeable recoil lugs,not unlike the TRG and the M75.I have no idea where they fit into the chronological order of Sako actions.In the pictures on this link the L691 doesn't look any different than an L61R.Try emailing this fellow at Sako.He anwered by questions on a certain L61R a few months ago.

Reine.Austin@sako.fi

http://www.rifleshooter.com/Project%20guns/sako_691_pg_new.htm

I'm only familiar with the older Sako's,and here are the model numbers-

Short action (222 size)-L46,L461
Medium (308 size)-L57,L579
Long (30/06 size)-L61 (?not quite sure?),L691 (definetly sure)

They're all the same action in different sizes.The differences between the two number models and the latter three number models is mostly in the saftey-the older ones had safteys on the shroud,while the later ones had a small sliding saftey just behind the bolt handle.

WB.

Let's try this:



1942-1947 L-42 , clip loading bolt in 7x33 only



1946-1961 L-46 (later called the Vixen) 32 oz. action clip loading 7x33, 22 hornet, 218 Bee, 222 rem



1959-1969 L-469 revamped l-46 to handle 222 rem amg



1961-1972 L-461 Vixen 34 oz action, dropped bolt saftey, dropped clip and added hinged floorplate and lengthed action, cals 222, 222 rem mag, 223



1957-1959 L-57 , 40 oz action, Mag box 2.812, hinged floorplate, bolt safety, cals 243, 224, 308



196x-1972 L-579 Forester improved L-57 dropped bolt safety added 22-250



1950-1961 Sako high power built on FN Mauser actions for 270, 30-06, 300 H&H and 375 H&H, among others.



1961-1972 L-61R sako built long action, Called Finnbear (up to 3.650" box length) 3 locking lugs (two front, 1 rear) 44 oz action, cals 25-06, 270, 30-06, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, 338 mag, 375 H&H among others.



Here's were things get fuzzy,



In the 1972-1974, dropped Tradewinds and Garcia was named importer (hence early model's are termed Pre-Garcia, which to Sako's are like pre-64's), they cheaped (fit and finish) the actions (particularly the L61R's) came out with a model 72, followed by a model 74. These were basicly L61R's without the third lug.



In the late 70's or early 80's, Stoeger became the importer, and Sako, restored their quality, with 4 new actions,



AI (nee Vixen, nee L-461( with new bolt shroud on all models, and other improvements)

AII (nee Forester, nee L-579)

AIII ( nee Finnbear, nee L-61R, but without the third lug) for standard (30-06 length and short and long magnums)



Later Sako (1985-6) came out with the AV, which I think is to distingush between the 06 bolt face and the magnum bolt face. (Who can understand the inscrutable Finnish mind, warped as it is by over exposure to steam and hot rocks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)



Changes were again made in the mid 90's to 491, 591 and 691, and I lost interest in these "improvements", and these changes that Sako make, that cheapen a very fine action.



Sako also made in the early days, some single shot actions on the L-46, and L-57 frames, but those are fairly rare.



I have exhusted my small bank of knowledge. I think the older Sako's are fine actions and have owned them in the following calibers:



243 L-579 (Browning) non-dovetail

308 AII (Beretta) non-dovetail

358 (custom AII)

270 L61R (H&R non-dovetail)

30-06 AIII Mannlicher

7mm Rem Mag AV

300 Win Mag AV

338win mag AV (Mannlicher...aka Toy Cannon)

375 H&H AV

416 Rem AV

7x64 AIII

9.3x62 AIII

458 Winchester L61R (rare and wish I had it back)



Regards,



Bob



Oh yea, remembered some more Sako trivia, that is probably only interesting to those who memorize batting averages and the like.



Browning (1960's- through 1974 L-461's and L-579's), Colt (1950's used Sako actions (l-46's & L-57's) without dovetailed receiver, as did H&R (1960's), and some others (O'Brien L461's 1970's), and others which I've forgetten.



Beretta used AI's, AII's and AIII's for line of rifles, called 501's and 502's in a dizzing array of grades, in the early 90's. My 308 was an AII Beretta, also made without dovetailed receiver.





They must have like them, because in 2000 (or so) Beretta bought the company!



NOTE: The non-dovetailed receiver Sako's are a pure "Beetch" to get bases for, other than that they are a good buy. Conetrol does make the proper bases, (for both dovetailed and non dovetailed Sako's) but are not cheap!!! Weaver also made a set of bases that fit the non's, as did Redfield (little hard to find).





END MEMORY DUMP......

Thanks, Bob, for your very comprehensive and interesting post.

Do you know if the L691 will fit into an L61R stock?

Ted

Ted,

Don't know sorry. But from the 61R's through the AIII/AV, the changes externally were small (or above the stock line), and later action would fit the stock for an earlier, or via versa, with some minor fitting. What Sako did to the 691, I don't know, never owned one, to compare any differences. Heard they dinked with the recoil lug, which if true, could make fitting problematical.

Guess you need to ask someone who might really know. Why don't you give Mcmillian a call. They have always answered my dumb questions (not that your question is dumb). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards,

Bob

Ted,

I didn't want to open my mouth 'til I did some research, so here goes: In about 1990 or so, Sako bought Tikka who used to make the LSA 55 and 65 that was imported by Ithaca in the early '70's. They introduced the M-590 and the M-690. In my Rifles of the world Rifles of the World book it also list the M-595 and the M-695. And of course the TRG-S.

I would think that the M-691 is a variation on the above theme. I can't find any listing for it, so have no basis other than logic for that statement. I just looked in an old dearler catalog from '95 and they list Sako actions only as the M591 and the M-691. I look in my latest copy of Bolt Action Rifles Bolt Action Rifles but that was no help at all.

As near as I can determine, the Tikka M-558 and M-658 were the updated versions of the M-55 and M65. (The "8" was added for the year 1988) The M590 and M-690 came along in about 1990 and were updated versions of the previous. Short action and Long action respectively. I would bet that a stock from a Sako would not Not fit the M-691. Hope this helps.

the9.3Guy

You can read about the Sako Model 691 at the following link,

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/manuals/Sako91_RH.pdf

Thanks...

Last Saturday August 10 bought a 6.5x55 Sako 691 with Leupold Compact 3-9x in unmarked lever top mounts at J. Devine,new condition, rather pretty wood, appears to be a very well made and well finished rifle but weighs 9 lbs with the scope on it. If anyone has any questions I will examine the rifle and try to answer them. Devine is one of three or four auction outfits in New Hampshire, runs a sale every two months or so.

Hey Shadow maybe you or Bandit can tell me what is different, good or bad about the Garcia era Sakos. I have a beautiful Sake Deluxe Forester 308 with blonde stock and skipline checkering and that high polished blue. It has Garcia on the underside of the barrel just ahead of the forearm. It has a small scratch in the checkering on the left forearm where your left hand would be while firing.
This gun really feels good to handle. but I haven't shot it. It has a Redfield Widefield 2x7. Probably original mounting. Perfect gun for a wife.

About when was it imported?

SweetSue,

Garcia era Sako's ran from 1972 through 1980. The big knock on them was an alleged lack of fit and finish (finnish?), as compared to pre-72 model's. Sako afficinado's view 1972 with the same distain as Winchester fetishists view 1964.

Gracia had Sako change the L61R, to eliminate the third recoil lug, which although a big deal is made about it, it is really no big deal.

In my view, (IMHO), by 1980-81 (Changed importer to Stoger) with introduction of the AI, AII, AIII, and later AV, Sako returned to their former glory. Which they again lost when they came out with the 75's, that started the spagetti (Beretta) era.

However, the Blue Book does not take this view. The list all post 72's (Garcia imports and so marked) as worth 25% LESS, than pre-72's.

Your is the Deluxe grade which is about as good as it gets (except for the rarer Super Deluxe and Safari grades), so shoot it and enjoy it.

I know I would.

Bob

Shadow, thanks for the explaination. I have loved the Deluxe Sakos since they came out. I have a Mannlicher Stocked 264. This 308 has the fit and finish of any of the Deluxe Sakos. Perhaps they cut corners on the cheaper ones and not the Deluxe during Garcias' era. Believe me the Pre 64 and post 64 type comparison doesn't hold water with this gun.

Any one else own a Garcia Deluxe that would care to chime in?

I have a L691 in .375 H&H. The main difference with the L61, aka AV was that it no longer had an integral recoil lug. A more subtle change was the location of the ejector slot on the bolt. With long cartridges it can cause the empty case (eg H&H) to hit the scope turret. It only happens on an empty magazine though. With some rounds in the mag it will eject sideways cause of the pressure from the lower rounds.

Pretty stupid to change something that was previously working perfectly.

Anyway I believe it was the accountant's special. The L491, L591 & L691 were all 1991 revisions to the action. Removeable aluminium recoil lug and whereas Sako actions up to this time were scaled ie. in both length & bolt /receiver diameter after 91 it was scaled only on bolt length. The L491 suffers most obviously.

But not all bad courtesy of HS precision & Magnum Research that built customs on these actions I got an after market stock that just drops in. You can't get that for a L61 from HS & McMillan are hard to get here.

For a custom a L61 would be better IMHO. My L691 shoots bloody marvelously. I think the other changes were as to barrel contours and the like with the L691 going very light for a .375H&H. Would have liked more meat there & that is partly the reason to add the HS stock which adds 1/2 pound over factory wood stock. 8.5lbs scoped with the wood stock so great mountain rifle if you need that sort of punch in a mountain rifle.

Like all Sakos, actions are real smooth & slick. Finishing is excellent. My L691 stock has cast off too & was duplicated in the HS stock. Great fit for me. Mine has a front sight but no rear sight. (Huh what were these Finns drinking at the time). I don't know if it came with one as I bought mine 2nd hand but I managed to buy a Sko adjustable peep sight one for $29 from a shop having a cleanout. It fits on the rear dovetail.

Some people knock the dovetail scope mounting system but I like them as they make the scope sort of quick detachable even if they don't have levers. Get the optilocks not the leupold mounts (they cost less but not as substantial as the Sakos). I understand Talleys make some too, & you know that Talleys are just excellent.