Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting What do you consider minimum cartridge for elk?

For general hunting 100-300 yard shots with confidence that you could make a clean kill in most shot opportunities.

270 with a high weight retention bullet. I’ve killed several with a WSM and 140 TSX. Never thought I needed more.

.257 or 6.5mm. Bullet? Choose wisely...

270 Win or 308 Win with heavier high weight retention bullets such as the TTSX.

I have taken and been in on the taking of around 100 elk. I have seen them shot with everything from a 243 Win to a 375 H&H. I personally consider the 243 to be too light but it did work on some cows. But, I have never seen it used on a mature bull which is a completely different animal than a cow, and the guy that used the 243 was a local rancher. He could wait for the perfect shot and knew where to place that little 100 gr bullet. In my mind I'd say the 6.5x55 Swede and 270 Win are the lightest that I'd suggest. Never seen one shot with any other 6.5 than the Swede which is why I mention it but I'd imagine any of the new 6.5s would be as effective.

For me I like a happy medium in elk since they come in lots of different sizes and shots can be at any range. 7mm Mag is my favorite round and the one I have used the most.

270 Win. Sure, lot's have been killed with 6.5s. But the question as phrased is "with confidence that you could make a clean kill in most shot opportunities". To me, that means allowing for a margin of error and steep quartering away angle and less than a 5% chance of an extended extended tracking job.

My Dad's taken several with the 308win using 165gr Interlocks including one bull. None needed tracking. I've taken one with a 270win with Rem factory 150gr corelocks no tracking. I've used more gun than those but I've no experience with less.

Just a data point a 308 win @ ~300 yards is the same as a 300 Win Mag @ ~500 yards.

I'm a big fan of and have killed most of my elk with .30 caliber rifles, but....

Quite a few years ago I was on my first DIY, solo Bighorn sheep hunt in one of Montana's Unlimited tag sheep units in the Absaroka Wilderness. By the 3rd morning I hadn't seen a single sheep and shortly after I left my tent I heard an elk bugle not very far from me. The early elk season was open there in the Wilderness and I had my elk tag in my pocket, so I just sat down and waited.

He was walking in my direction through the open lodgepole timber, occasionally stopping and bugling. When I first saw the ivory tips of his dark 6x6 antlers I knew that my sheep hunt was over. He stopped to bugle broadside, about 75 yards from me, and I put a 117 grain Sierra GameKing bullet from my .257 Ackley just behind his right shoulder. He simply collapsed, dead, where he was standing.

He turned out to be my 2nd best 6x6 bull, and I enjoy seeing his shoulder mount on my Trophy Room wall every day.

I have complete faith in that rifle and cartridge, but it is not the first rifle that I grab when I go elk hunting.

I also had friends that would kill their elk every year with their .22-250s, but everything has to be perfect for that caliber.

Proper bullet placement is by far, more important than the caliber of the bullet.

.25-06 with a 117 interlock

I second this ^^^

If you happen to use a “premium” bullet instead of the Interlock, you’re likely to see similar positive results.

.243 with good bullets.

.277" is my minimum..

Friend's wife has killed an adult cow every years with 243 Win and 100 gr TSXs.

270 Win. (with premium bullets) .308 Win.,30-06 or a 7 REM Mag! memtb

For me, it's .257.

25-284.

Elk have been taken with old cartridge's like the 25-20 and 22 Savage High Power, but those were in the days of my grandad and every shot had to bring something home for dinner, it is all about WHERE the bullet strikes the animal!
I live in the center of every big game animals territory in Idaho. We are out and about with cows etc and find carcasses of animals lost by hunters. When skinning my wife's trophy whitetail buck last year we found a 25ca bullet between the skin and rib, NO penetration! The tip was barley dented. So besides shot placement do not try to "stretch the barrel". It seems to be too common.
Do not shoot light bullets thinking speed always means more energy. A heavier bullet works best on elk sized game.
When I guided years ago the minimum for elk was 30ca rifle with 180gr or 154gr in a 7mag.

This is simple enough for newbie elk hunters.

When I lived in Idaho back in the 60’s 30-30’ and sporterized military 30-06’s were the most common with the locals.
Lots of 270’s and some 338’s but the locals stalked their game with their feet instead of long range optics. And horses of course

Rick

So I am wondering, what percentage of the folks who are answering with 243 win/257 roberts or similar when presented with the following scenario:

Your mentoring a young hunter with an either sex tag who has that 243 win/257 roberts in their hands (you have your 270/280/handloaded 7x57 in your hands) and that 325 class 6x6 presents itself at 290 yards quartering away and is starting to act a little nervous..don't look at the young hunter and say - "here, use my rifle works just the same as yours aim thru his body as if you are trying put the bullet just in front of the offside far shoulder"

The reason I propose the above scenario is because that is the question I really think is being asked.

These types of discussions are hilarious. I figure if you were an actual mentor, you would know and wouldve ensured the young hunter was not only capable but confident in their marksmanship....with their rifle. A 100gr 6mm bullet will kill a bull just as a 130gr 6.8mm bullet will. As long as the range is within the acceptable fps for the bullet to perform (290yds would be a chip shot for 108eldm), fire away.

Well there is always lively discussion on the Fire! My personal biases pretty much mirrors the above. There is a difference between bulls and cows and 6mm is on the light side for either IMHO. Not to say it hasn't been done by the 243Win and even smaller cartridges with good bullets and selective shot placement but a quartering away bull at 300 yards as Mike Dettore suggested? Not me. I would consider that to be a 270Win minimum scenario.
Of course there is a huge difference between someone who lives in elk country and has lots of opportunity and someone who travels long distance for a 5 day hunt.

So remove the "mentoring" aspect, make it just two hunters. I suspect that a good percentage of the pairs of hunters would be having a conversation about using the other rifle. The issue I am discussing above is not can it, the issue is about confidence and how confidence changes when you get out at the margins.

Nothing about the situation you described sounds marginal to me. Obviously depending on atmospheric conditions (ie wind), shooting position, bullet selection, etc.

At 300yds my 6 creed w/ 108eldm is going 2600fps.

I've shot a couple with a 270 and several more with 308. I'm 100% comfortable at your given ranges with both cartridges. Personally I won't go below the 270.

With conventional lead core bullets, I’d say .270. With Barnes or other good mono, a fast .257 or .264. 😎

That would explain why so many folks believe .24cal, 25cal, 26cal, cartridges don't kill effectively. Narrow wound channels take longer to kill animals.

why match bullets thread

In all seriousness, go read that thread then re-read it.

The right shot placement through a lung (s) the heart means death it’s not theory. Small hole big hole doesn’t make any difference. But the optimal side shot on elk or moose from my experience is more magazine dreaming than real life. If you want to put down a large ungulate rather than where he or she scrambled off to in tough country with the sun going down then you need to break the big bones that they need to run. Shoulder bones broken up with heavy bullets and calibers put them face down — game over cause you most like not only take out the front legs but bone fragments will take out lungs and the heart too. Splintered up hip bones will slow them down but I’ve seen my share of three legged elk climb over the top and feed coyotes.

Rick

Still a lot of opinion just like this thread. Question asked and answered. Take it for what it’s worth. WAM, out.

There are direct quotes from terminal ballistic studies and experts in the field of study. I would consider that peer reviewed data...not opinion.

You have been led to water.

Ballistics typed on paper is not what always happens in hunting conditions.

What do you think would put an elk down quicker at 100 yards...........
A 220 Swift with with a 55 grain bullet or a 410 grain from a 45-70?

220 Swift energy is 1,004 by the book.
45-70 energy is 895.

I have yet to see a grizzly guide use a 220 Swift, but many carry a 45-70. Yeah I know newer guns can handle potent 45-70 loads, but I have used factory Remington ammo (to old load pressures) in my original 1873 trapdoor to take several elk.

Soooooooo many people believe in and have blind faith in ft/lbs energy……which means near nothing in the real world. Especially, if larger big game is involved! memtb

Lb ft of energy is irrelevant

I assume that this was a question, with a dash of sarcasm……if so, my response is a resounding “yes”! memtb

6mm to 30cal….
Placed right. Dead.
From my adventures, anyway.
If you are a bad shot, go bigger….
You still will miss, but you “had enough gun”.
WWDD?

It was a statement. Pretty clearly written too.

I wouldn't worry too much about a 243 or 25-06 out in the open country in Wyoming and such, since they can travel a bit and usually not end up in some place of hell. Places like Oregon and similar where they can make one leap and its straight down into a nightmare of timber and so damned steeped you have to tie them up to butcher them to keep them from sliding. But hand me a 243, 25-06, whatever and I am still going elk hunting.

I know there are overlap and everyplace has it's own nightmare though.

Haven't killed an elk or seen many killed yet where a good 270 with a decent bullet wouldn't have done the work.

This exactly. ^

But a 35 Whelen would have done the work most efficiently

In my experience elk are tough animals, I prefer 270 and up with Partition or Barnes bullets.

Try using punctuation….it may help others determine what you are attempting to communicate! 🤬 memtb

These threads are always fun.

Have seen elk taken with 243 through 375.

From what I have in my safe...

Absolute minimum is 22-250. From what I have seen with a 53gr TSX at 3800fps on deer/antelope. It would kill an elk.

A 270 WCF with 130-150gr bullets is a solid choice.

But my favorite elk cartridge, is one of my 338-06's with a 200-210gr bullet.

I’ll jump into this again!

If the hunter lives in elk country, has many or will have many opportunities to hunt/kill elk, use whatever you want to use….no matter how inadequate! Assuming that wounded elk do not cause you concern!

For the hunter with limited opportunities…..I’ll stay with my suggestion of the 270 Win. with a premium bullet (preferably a Partition or a Barnes mono) as the practical minimum! memtb

It would not help you.

No go back to waxing about crippled animals while simultaneously suggesting people use bullets that are affected more in wind and produce narrow wound channels. Ironic lol.

Huh?

This Topic never goes away no matter how hard the Fire beats it with a Ugly stick.

It ain't what you shoot Elk with it's where you shoot them.

I have killed Elk with .223---22-250---30-30---32 Special---.243---.243 A.I.--- 6CM---6.5 CM

.270---30-06---45-70---450 Howell----I've killed more with a .243 than any thing else.

Rio7

I shot a bull at 173 yards with a 105 amax & it was like he was hit by a lighting bolt. (high shoulder)
I shot a bull 2 years ago 4 times with my beloved 7saum & partitions. 3 in the boiler room and last one neck, at 150ish. He never took a step but, just wouldn't flinch or fall over.
Spit just happens, sometimes. I've killed lots of bulls with the saum & not had a problem, until I did.

High shoulder…..likely some trauma to the spinal cord, even if not hit directly! A spinal cord shock “Will” do that! 😉 memtb

Yep, these kind of threads always have a little bit of the "ONE TIME AT BAND CAMP" mentality.

First, under the most ideal conditions and PERFECT shot placement you'll hear how many elk are killed with a .243 WIN: and then it will be stated that it was a cow shot with a .243 and not a mature bull ..... huge difference my friends.

Second, what kind of shot was presented? Was it a perfect broadside shot under 150 yards? Of course smaller calibers will kill an elk under ideal conditions.

LASTLY, what kind of hunter are you? Have you haunted elk for decades and don't really care if the big one gets away? Are you a crack shot that can place an OFFHAND shot at 200 yards into an 8-10 inch vital area?

The OP should, as an ethical hunter, rephrase the question to something like .... "WHAT IS THE MINIMUM CARTRIDGE THAT THE AVERAGE SHOOTER SHOULD BE USING TO HUNT ELK"?

AMEN Brother!

And perhaps edit your last line to: "WHAT IS THE MINIMUM CARTRIDGE THAT THE AVERAGE “ETHICAL” SHOOTER SHOULD BE USING TO HUNT ELK"? memtb

Oops almost forgot..... the minimum for the AVERAGE shooter needs to be something .277 caliber or larger that delivers a minimum of 1500 Foot Pounds of energy at the point of impact.

What does "1500 ft lbs of energy" achieve?

Much more than a 6.5 Crapmore.

“Book energy” by no means indicates penetration capability. But, you already knew that.

You speak the truth.

"ONE TIME AT BAND CAMP" this video reminded about what is wrong with using light cartridges at unethical distances. Fire away.

PS: skip ahead to 37 seconds to hear what all the girls are saying. LOL

This might be the dumbest post in this entire thread. Congratulations.

243 win.
As long as you’re not trying to break shoulders.
Good bonded or mono 24 cal bullet with in the 300 yard OP range.
Elk aren’t bullet proof. Shot placement over displacement.
How did guys shoot elk with 30/30 or less.
We became too focused on Ft/lb and all the other BS Hype.

Placement is critical ……with anything! Though……few brag about those they wounded with 30-30’s, ect.!

Just like many on these forums, they are every bit as good as Jerry Miculek …..they just don’t have a website! 😉. memtb

Even less brag about wounding animals with magnums (I'm mean who knows, but if we can just make up hypotheticals why not?). I'm guessing they just assume "the bullet done blowed up!" In their defense due to recoil they have no idea what happened....

Your constant strawman of "we don't hear about the wounded ones" goes both ways genius.

It’d be pretty cool if folks just mentioned what they used and how they worked rather than hammering one or another about how the other guys choice sucked. As have been said, a lot of stuff works and some people have specific reasons for using what they do.

I guess there’s no fun in that though.

These can be pretty good threads when folks post up what they use, bullets, outcome post shot and let the chips fall where they may.

Handy, how many dozen elk have you shot to back up your claims.? You are not even proud enough to identify the state in which you live. Probably N.J.

30-30’s,32 Win, 38-55’s and even the slow poke 44-40’s put a lot of elk meat on the table. By todays standards where writing a big check and being limited to a week’s hunting I guess you have to adapt and maximize your odds. But lots of locals I hunted with were in good shape, no altitude problems and most importantly understood where elk moved and could track. They also didn’t need a map of which outfitter leased which parcel. Yes animals were wounded which was certainly not uncommon but they were tracked and finished off. If you read much history about meat hunters who supplied the old forts in the prairie or Rockies it was almost rare to put down an animal with one shot ( no scopes) . Buffalo could absorb 2000 grs of bullets or more before bleeding out. Cutting up a bled out elk or deer is a treat. So if 300-400 yards is as close as you can get then that’s no reason to doubt that a good still hunter with good legs and experience can’t do it with less. My late Brother guided and wrangled in Wyoming and Idaho for about fifteen years. He took lots of game starting off with. Win. 64 in 38-55 and a sporterized Enfield 303.

Rick

How did you know I live in New Jersey? Haha I tell ya what, I'll be sure to get you some pictures of the two elk I kill this year with a 6mm and "match" bullets. Deal?

You are quite astute in your grasp of the reality, that a miss or poorly placed shot is not desirable……no matter the cartridge!

However, your assumption that all shooters of heavy recoil rifles are like you in their inability to handle recoil, clearly shows that you deny reality! memtb

Back in the 70's I went to college in Colorado and hunted as much as I could on public land. As a poor college student, I had a well used military Mauser sporter rebarreled to 30 06, with Lyman 48 peep sights. Back then as I remember, a lot of hunters used the .270 win and the 30 06 with a bunch of different other military surplus calibers commonly showing up in sporterized rifles with the guys I hunted with, all poor. Several I knew used the M1 Garand rifle for Elk. In college, I do not remember one person I hunted with in the 70's that had a rifle scope. Conversations about them were generally centered around how unreliable they were.

Fast forward to 1988 when I could afford a guided hunt on private property about an hour away from Aspen. The property owner and guide had to have been 80 years old. One night around the fire after we had been searching for an elk someone shot with a 7mm Magnum which we finally found, he started telling us about all of the Elk lost or took a considerable of tracking to find that were shot with magnum rifles. He was not fond of Magnums for Elk. He said the highest performing rifles for Elk were the 30 06 and 8 x 57 Mauser
in his lifetime.

Would be nice if for once we could dispense with the personal attacks and stick with the facts but I suppose that is too much to ask and it certainly doesn't help to achieve a 10k post count.
Thanks for the replies which have verified my thoughts on cartridges and posters (posers?).

Minimum for me is a 270win. Over the years I've used a 30-06 the most, but a 270win got it done as well. I hunt elk every year, and have since around 1996. I travel too far and spend too much each year to take anything less than what the 270win brings to the table. Whatever you use, I hope it's a one shot kill.

In all honesty and with respect to this group I have always found that a clean meat saving kill on elk can be readily accomplished with a steady offhand shot 1-2” behind and level with the base of the ear, I can’t even tell you how many elk I’ve taken with this this shot placement — cause I don’t know.

Handy, how many dozen so far? We'll see, but I know you won't be showing any cripples that get away.
I haven't shot many elk with a 7mm Mag. a few, but my two pals probably have shot around 100, maybe not that many but close. They have found them excellent elk killers. No one mentioned where the elk was hit in the Aspen country. I know this, not all shots turn out as well as we want for whatever reason, if you don't know that you haven't hunted much. Power doesn't make up for poor shooting, but with a less than perfect hit, it does more damage. As far as shooting elk behind the ear, I would again ask, how many dozen have fallen to these shots? I shot one behind the ear, she was close, and it was just at shooting time being over. I had a good rest and she wasn't far. The only guy I knew that liked that shot, was an old logger because he shot a .243. His nephew's are the 7mm mag. shooters I mentioned earlier. They usually hunted with their uncle and said it took forever to get him a shot. Often they shot the elk for him so they could all go home.

Coyotehunter

Just maybe my sense of hunting humor runs a bit thin here. But trying to place a “ a steady offhand shot 1-2” behind and level with the base of the ear,” on a ‘ live ‘ elk should, if nothing else, sound impossible if not just plain facetious
But who knows with this crowd

Sorry I miss understood.

.270 Winny. First 13 elk I killed was with a Pre 64 Fwt in .270 win. Only centerfire rifle I owned at the time.

I’ve seen a few dozen elk killed. With calibers from .224 to magnum 30s. I have never seen a bad result that was due to anything but poor shooting. In no case have I seen any indication that a little bit more diameter, weight, or speed would have made any difference at all in the outcome.

Majority of my experience is with bulls and many if not most of them shot with 270s. Shoot them where it counts with a bullet that will penetrate and don’t sweat the rest.

In my experience cartridges around the .243 Winchester in work fine, but so will .224 centerfires from the .223 on up. I knew a Montana game warden years ago, when the MT Fish, Wildlife & Parks Department used to kill "problem" elk off rancher's haystacks. He preferred the .220 Swift, whether for head or chest shots. He killed hundreds.

Of course, it also depends on hunting conditions. If you're hunting in open country where specific shot placement/angle is more easily acquired, then smaller rounds definitely work. One of my local friends is a retired outfitter who only hunts cows anymore, and he prefers .224 rounds like the .22-250 and .220 Swift, because he doesn't want the bullet to exit--as it did most of the time when he carried a 7mm Remington Magnum while guiding.

Back when I started elk hunting here in Montana in the 1960s, most public-land elk spent much of the rifle season in pretty thick timber, where shots were rarely as long as 100 yards. Consequently most hunters considered the .30-06 with 180s as minimum, but I eventually went to 200-grain Partitions, which proved adequate for any shot angle.

But another factor, even back then, is where I hunted most was close enough to Yellowstone Park to run into grizzlies--partly because that was when the Park had just closed down the open dumps and bears were wandering farther to find food. Never ran into one there, just tracks--but have run into them while elk hunting in other parts of the state, and while pheasant hunting in northwestern Montana on the Flathead Reservation, where several hunters have been mauled in the past few decades. And they keep "expanding." The area where we live didn't have any when we moved here in 1990, but they're found in the both the mountain ranges on either side of the valley--and it won't be long before they're in the valley itself.

Grizzlies are why I tend to prefer something a "little" heavier when hunting in their territory. Twenty years ago I got a bull elk and moose on a horseback hunt in northern British Columbia, in an area where my guide and I ran into 10 grizzlies in nine days of hunting--one of which tried to come in while we were taking apart my bull moose. Luckily, the horses spooked after scenting the bear, warning us, and we managed to get the job done without a problem--though we kept my .300 Winchester Magnum and 9.3x62 handy while taking turns during the dismantling. When we rode out a couple days later, on the main trail that went right past that spot, a big boar was sitting next to what remained of the carcass, his stomach bloated by moose parts.

On the 9th day of that hunt I killed a 6x6 elk in thick riverbottom cover, near where one of the guides in camp had killed a charging grizzly a couple weeks earlier. I used the .300 Winchester on the bull, at the vast range of 75 yards, and didn't feel I was "overgunned" in those circumstances....

I usually hunt elk with no cartridge at all. Just a primer, powder, and a bullet.

Last year, when I went on my first Elk hunt (bucket list) I worried about everything, especially my rifle. I kept asking my guide what he recommended after witnessing literally hundreds of kills. His response never changed.

He said bring what you are familiar with and what you shoot well. I brought my old early 70’ s REM 700 BDL .30-06 that I bought new. Practiced out to 550 yards but would limit my shots to 400 or less. It worked! Duh!

168 Barnes TTSX hand load. I admit that I felt under gunned after reading a lot of internet gack, but my guide knew what he was talking about.

Not really I have a way of screwing up what I meant to say
Rick

Gasp! How could you! Considering "pound feet of energy" and all......lol

You wait right here, some elderly folks from Wyoming will be here shortly to scold you....their way is THE way. Ain't that right memtb?

Sounds like you had a good, smart guide! Congrats on a successful hunt! memtb

Well stated

Another well stated post.

I have killed at least one elk with each of the following rifles:

.243 Winchester
.25-06 Remington
.270 Winchester
7mm Rem Mag
.300 Savage
.308 Winchester
.30-06 Springfield
.300 Win Mag
8mm Rem Mag
338 Lapua Mag

Some were with handloads, others were with factory ammo and at various distances. The bulk of these were taken with my .30-06 Springfield.

I have personally witnessed others kill elk with all of the above cartridges and each of the following rifles:

6mm Remington
.250-3000 Savage
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x284 Norma
6.5 PRC
.264 Win Mag
7mm-08 Remington
7x57mm Mauser
.30-40 Krag
.300 WSM
.300 RUM
.338 Win Mag
.375 H&H Mag
.444 Marlin
.450 Marlin
.45-70 Government

My personal preference is for at least a .270 Winchester minimum, but as I just said, cartridges as small as the .243 will do it given the bullet going into vitals.

Good post Scotty

I’m going to bet that there are more answers to the question than there are elk killed…

+1000

Yeah and probably the fewer the elk, the more adamant the opinion. ....grin....

If I cant find grenades then I rig up a sort of a claymore right beside the trail.

I killed my last with a 284 Win which is a 270-class cartridge. That would be as low as I would go generally because I’m from the Midwest and my elk hunting was always limited to 5-7 days and then I’m finished. Rarely have been able to pick my shots.

But like MD I would like something bigger where the grizzly’s tend to be impolite. And for years I carried a 340 Wby with 210-gr TSX’s. Perhaps. Whether falsely or not, it did give me a feeling of reassurance.

As to using the smaller cartridges, I’m sure many have been used to kill elk DRT (does that mean where he finally dropped? 😉). That always reminded me of a comment by Jim Carmichael about “cocktail time calibers (cartridge)” meaning something out of the ordinary enough to yack over a drink later on.

In big, broken and rough country,, use enough cartridge. They deserve it.

A friend of mine filled his cow tag with a magnum.

A .22 WMR while grouse hunting.

You have done a LOT more elk hunting than I have my friend. Thanks for your help with the cow elk in January. 405 yards, 30-06, 178 grain ELD-X. Heck it broke her leg, shattered it really, then went through her heart and she still ran a couple of hundred yards before I could finish her at much shorter range. Wow...







I've only taken three, two with the 30-06 and one big bull with a 7mm Rem Mag using the 175 gr Nosler Partition. All worked. That last one was a bit of a stretch, couldn't have done it without you guys. May well look for another Oregon elk, January 2025. Freezer is still pretty full.

Regards, Guy

Personally, I have slayed elk and mule deer with the following cartridges. Not that it means boo…
.30-06
.308 Win
7mm Weatherby
.300 Weatherby
.35 Whelen

Great pics Guy!

Thanks! Although 30 years older than the two sturdy fellows in the photo, I wondered why I was having such a hard time getting up the big ridges with them.

Had my heart attack a few weeks later... That told me why I had troubles on that hunt.

It was a good hunt and the cow has been delicious. I'll be back!

Regards, Guy

Glad you’re on the mend buddy. You’ve got some more to do!

It was a great hunt! Love to have you back anytime!

30-30

I have used a .308 Winchester, .30-06 and .338 Win mag to do the described tasks. A .308 or .270 Winchester with 150's would make fine minimums.

Though I don't shoot one, I have three hunting buddies who have used .270 Winchesters to take many elk.

Given the right distance, angle, presentation , and a perfect shot , you can kill them with about anything. BUT, that doesn't always happen, in the real world. Neither myself or my partners have ever hunted with anything less than a 270 nor will they. Two years ago my SIL, took several shots to get a big cow down in the middle of a field shooting a 7 mm Mag, sandbagged on the top of his 4 drawer tool cabinet. Not a long shot just a little inside of 300 yards with a 160 AB . After a few days later he put the rifle back on the bench and found a loose mounting screw, which when tightened back up, moved the scope back to dead center. Anything can happen I believe it was Robert Ruark that stated "bring enough gun". My personal minimum, 7 mm AI or .308