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OP
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On what basis do you think they make “poor elk and deer rifles”? Thanks for asking. Obviously the 338 win mag and 340 wby have no problems killing elk. But really over the years I started to notice that the recoil didn’t appear to help kill deer and elk much at all nor did large powder charges. I hunt elk in some of the most challenging parts of the country and even with decent raking shots, I don’t find the 338 all that beneficial. Often my seasons overlap and I am just fine hunting with smaller calibers in lighter less recoiling cartridges. Those guns are not poor choices for me, however a heavier and a harder kicking rifle would be. Great cartridge the 338 win mag is though but it just doesn’t add up. Regards, S.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The 375 H&H had 46 years to earn a reputation before the 338 WM was introduced, 1912 verses 1958. We can only guess how many rifles chambered in 375 H&H and how much 375 H&H ammo could be found wherever game was hunted across Africa prior to the introduction of the .338 WM.
I'm one of those guys who bought a 375 H&H to take to Africa as my heavy rifle. I intended to use it on the eland, but the eland showed up when I had my light rifle, a 6.5x55. The only .338" bore rifles that I have are chambered in .338-06 and .338 FED. The .338-06 is set up to shoot 210 grain Partitions and the .338 FED is set up to shoot 200 grain ABs. The only game that I've shot with them are a couple of whitetails, so not a difficult test for either the cartridges or the bullets.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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I don’t think that by the time the .338 Win Mag showed up it would have had any appreciable affect on the popularity of the Holland and Holland. The H&H had the advantage of being more familiar and a “battle” proven success with decades of use and piles of critters piled up by the time the .338WM hit the shelves. The other not so insignificant factor that I think would impact this hypothetical scenario is that the .338WM is NOT more powerful than the H&H so it wouldn’t be a “trade-up” if one sold their H&H and got a 338WM for hunting “The Big 5”.
I really like the 338WM and it holds a sentimental spot for me and for large big game I think it’s a great cartridge. Despite the sacrifice in velocity that accompanies shorter barreled rifles the 338WM still offers a lot of whoop-ass for 95%+ of distances we shoot game at. With proper bullets the need to hold out for ideal presentations and perfect angles can be overcome with the 338WM.
I love the .338 Win Mag but it’s an American cartridge….a sort of metaphor like the 44mag where everything in America is bigger, better, stronger and louder including our rifles and pistols. 😂
The H&H is a lifted pinky on the pretty rose scalloped teacup while dining on crustless cucumber sandwiches….it’s also what I’d choose between the 2 were I to ever chase The Big 5……if I ever find myself being chased by The Big 5 I hope to have something much bigger than either the WinMag or the H&H. 😂 Word
Carry what you’re willing to fight with - Mackay Sagebrush
Perfect is the enemy of good enough
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Campfire Outfitter
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I have two 338 from an auction, one a Ruger magna ported and a Remington model 700.
Have not been out to try them, made a few loads up to try.
Recently in an auction got a set of 338-378 dies, now that might be a fast combo.
"The 375HH is the greatest level of power you can get for the investment in recoil." (JJHack)
79s and losttrail, biggest waste of air.
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Campfire Regular
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There's nothing on the planet a 300gr .338 bullet at a reasonable speed couldn't kill. Kind of a shame they're no longer widely available.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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OP
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Because apparently people are having a hard time killing anything with 338s shooting bullets less than 300 grains? I was wondering the same.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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You're right. Anything that isn't a 180gr .30-06 should be discontinued on the basis of being superfluous. Clowns.
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Campfire Tracker
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You're right. Anything that isn't a 180gr .30-06 should be discontinued on the basis of being superfluous. Clowns. Rather than getting your undies in a bunch, you could have just answered the question. I think lots of folks think that a 250 grain premium bullet will outpenetrate and generally outperform a 300 grain traditional soft nose. I guess I think that too.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Kind of a shame they're no longer widely available. Not really, a shame that is. Because I immediately think of 300gr bullets in a 338. Sheesh! I lean more towards why a 300gr in a 338? It is not like it is a 130gr a 270, ,300gr in 375 or 400 in a 416. 
Last edited by CRS; 08/13/23.
Arcus Venator
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I have never hunted Africa nor big bears up north and for that reason the 338 win mag has never interested me. My younger brother swears by the 338 as the only elk medicine on this planet however I have seen personally a number of elk shot with a 338 win mag that required a follow up shot including one that was shot with a 338 lapua and 300 grain bullet. My older brother on the other hand has killed a handful of elk with one shot using a 300 win mag and a 270 Winchester. In fact last year my older brother dropped a nice cow elk in her tracks at 510 yards with his 300 win mag using a behind the shoulders lung shot, something I have never witnessed from a 338 win mag. Perhaps it has been pure coincidence but everything I have witnessed in hunting with others that use the 338 or 300 win mag the 300 has impressed me far more on elk especially when being shot at distance.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Campfire Member
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A key difference between the 375 and 338 are bullet weights, with 338's offering lots of options around 200 grains and common bullets really topping out around 250-270. The 338 WM was meant for fairly dangerous game, but dangerous game with thin skin. It's really similar to a 30 cal mag with heavier bullets to ensure enough penetration for moose and bear. Quite a bit different than what is needed for the African big five.
So I guess I can't participate in the OP's hypothetical, other than to say the 375 cal is not a mistake to have made the minimum at for some animals.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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What I have learned is it isn’t always what you shoot them with as much as where you shoot them. Case in point - I shot a Texas whitetail through the bottom half of the heart with a 210gr Barnes TTSX from my .338 Win Mag at a distance of 100yds. I wanted to see how that bullet preformed on a soft target. At the shot the deer took off at a dead run. My initial thought was I missed. Went to the point of the shot and there was a blood trail that a blind man could follow that led to a dead deer. He traveled about 60yds and I think he was pretty much bled out. On the flip side I routinely shoot Texas whitetails with a 127gr Barnes LRX from a 6.5CM with a high shoulder shot and they hit the ground, so hard they almost seem to bounce.
I am a fan of the 338WinMag on bigger game animals as it allows the hunter to penetrate big boned animals at longer distances. I’ve hunted Africa quite a bit and I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a Cape buffalo with a .338, but I prefer a 416 with 400gr bullets.
Last edited by Mike_TX; 08/13/23.
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I couldn't think of anybody who would even attempt to use a 173 grain 7mm bullet on elephant at anytime in the past. And I couldn't think of anyone who would use a 300 grain .338 bullet on buffalo either. Except if they knew what they were doing.
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Campfire Regular
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I couldn't think of anybody who would even attempt to use a 173 grain 7mm bullet on elephant at anytime in the past. And I couldn't think of anyone who would use a 300 grain .338 bullet on buffalo either. Except if they knew what they were doing. This past week I loaded some 300gr Barnes O. in my .35 Whelen. The reason? "Just because" I have 'em since my last .35 Whelen 1/4 century ago. That's for my 2nd round of a bear hunt starting early September. Do I believe they'll work miracles that the current load of 225 AB's couldn't perform at 2840 fps? Nah... it's just because, if given a chance in scouting to shoot one, I want to see how they'd work. After all, they've just been sitting there "forever" with nothing to do! Oh... and the MV should be about 2250 fps. How did a .35-cal get into this discussion? It's a compromise between a .338 and a .375 - the "poor man's .375" - as an "all around" choice for anything on this continent plus most of Africa. Then, often the term "need" in tossed into such discussions - really, we don't NEED to hunt or shoot, let's not forget it's a form of recreation and a sport. Bob www.bigbores.ca
"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus
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Campfire Tracker
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I use a 338-06 or a 338WM for moose/elk. I look on it as a fat 30-06.
Last edited by downwindtracker2; 08/14/23. Reason: missing word
You can hunt longer with wind at your back
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The classic load for large big game, that has stood the test of time, the load by which all others are judged, is a well-constructed 180 grain .30-06 bullet at 2700 fps to 2750 fps. Now the .338-06 (or .338 RCM) 225 bullet can achieve the same velocity (using Reloder 17), has slightly more frontal area, slightly better sectional density (.271 for the 180 .30 caliber versus .281 for the 225 grain .338) and travels at the same speed. The only choice that you need to make is which 225 grain bullet: mono or other. If you are shooting something even bigger or tougher, then you go to a 250 mono or a 300 grain Woodleigh (if you can get them).
Last edited by Riflehunter; 08/14/23.
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I don't think the 338 wm would have supplanted the 375 H&H were it Legal for the Big 5 in Africa, agreeing with many folks reasons above. However; I do think it was and is fully capable of Big 5 work properly loaded. I found the 338 WM in my Ruger #1 26 inch barrel a magnificent Elk rifle with the 275 Grain Speer Semi Spitzer. I saw some amazing terminal results on a number of elk and only recovered on bullet that was essentially a high shoulder shot at 425 Paced yards on a large bull. Broke 3-4 vertebrae and both shoulders. Recovered by the butcher and weighed 212 Grains.
The 300 grain Barnes Solids killed well too BTW.
I do feel like the mid waist calibers, starting at .338, carry a bit more "thump" but now I satisfy my desire for same with a 35 Whelen in a 25.5" barrel using 225 Barnes X at 2821 FPS. Which so loaded is the equal of the .338WM with less powder, thus less recoil.
Now that old Whelen shoots Cast 285's most of the time with a few boxes of 250 Hornady's loaded up just for a change of pace.
I also would be happy to let the "it's where you hit them" folks who posted know that I agree and would happily follow WDM Bell around with a 30-06 or a 308 loaded with 220 grain FN Solids if I could get my Time machine working. I know I would never match his level of marksmanship but I think I could get the tasks done well enough to get the elephants out of the gardens:)
Happy Hunting!
F01
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If you're going to do a .338 WM, you may as well do it properly and long-throat it with a long mag and use 225 mono's at 2900-3000 fps, which 225 .358 monos at 2821 fps with far less sectional density and way lower b.c., is not the equivalent of. The .358 would still however be good, which is agreed.
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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If you're going to do a .338 WM, you may as well do it properly and long-throat it with a long mag and use 225 mono's at 2900-3000 fps, which 225 .358 monos at 2821 fps with far less sectional density and way lower b.c., is not the equivalent of. The .358 would still however be good, which is agreed. Have you got 3k out of a long throat 338 win mag? I’ve owned several and seriously doubt that’s reasonable. All this talk about extra fps, sectional density, and paper thin margins in larger bore diameter reeks of a lot of cliché lore.
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