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Joined: Sep 2006
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I think the most underated rifle is gonna depend on what you like. I loved my old 660 Rem, was a 308 my son some how got? I think the newer Mossberg patriot with wood stock and blued metal is underated but I have two and I really like them, not that they are perfect though!
The most underated cartridge would depend on what your hunting. I think for being underated there's two cartridges that jump out at me for deer rifle's. The 250-3000 has to be one but pretty much extinct these days. The other for bigger than deer for me is a tie between the 6.5x55 and the 7x57.
Last edited by DonFischer; 09/12/23.
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Few years ago, got caught in a bad wind storm. Had every guy line in place to anchor the tent. During that storm, a heard of a dozen caribou passed by, all being tended by a gigantic bull. The shot was about 400 yards. My 41-9.3x62 wildcat/scout rifle was rendered useless in those winds. IF I had my 338 rcm, I would've easily taken that shot. I have never seen a larger bull caribou since. Settled for a pint-sized caribou at 20 yds. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/RFgq4wy0/DSC-0252.jpg) What breed is that dog? Alaskan malamute named nina. Just an overly thick coat in a rare red color. Good boat dog, been on lotta moose/caribou kills. Would attack other dogs that came near the meat. Never bothered the game bags. Quiet, no barking.
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Joined: Oct 2019
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One that always scratched an itch for me is the 375 WIN in a marlin lever action. 220gr at about the same speed as a 30/30 170 and quite a bit larger diameter. But I doubt any deer/elk/hog/ would ever know the difference.
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Joined: Sep 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Kudos Mule Deer for even mentioning the word "flinch" and that even you have been affected. I've helped a lot of guys sight in for our deer season and it is always an exercise in diplomacy to hold my tongue when they are all over the target. I read about all these big howling magnums capable of 1,000 yard shooting and wonder how many guys can actually place a shot accurately and not anticipate that amount of noise and recoil?
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
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One that always scratched an itch for me is the 375 WIN in a marlin lever action. 220gr at about the same speed as a 30/30 170 and quite a bit larger diameter. But I doubt any deer/elk/hog/ would ever know the difference. Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore informed me that 375win is a better performer than his 30-30 and 35Rem loads. His load is 375win and 38/55 compatible. I doubt hogs and dogs or deer make a difference but larger bears, elk, moose, maybe bison would be on the menu.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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I have found that increased "killing power" tends to start above .35 caliber. Haven't been impressed with the .35 Remington, though haven't used it as much as some other "deer" cartridges. Am not surprised by Tim's assessment, as have generally found .375 caliber (and 9.3mm) rounds tend to drop game quicker.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2018
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I'll add my post '64 Model 70 to the other votes. Very nice trigger. Shoots whatever factory ammo I throw at it under an inch.
"One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha."
- Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder
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Joined: Oct 2019
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I’ll have to look up BB loads and see what bullets they are using and see if I can buy some. Sadly my old 375 hasn’t been hunted in a few years. I’ve got a few boxes of 220hornadys left and maybe 100-200 WW 250’s but I rarely shoot the rifle anymore due to lack of available bullets. I have a box or two if 200gr sierras but to me the 375 just cries for 220+.
I haven’t shot many deer with the 375win but never could tell much difference between it and the 35rem. Just a hole in and a hole out with a good but short blood trail for both. I read an old article by John Wooters on the 375win when it first came out and always wanted one. I think he shot a few animals with a BB94 down in Tx. Seems to me like it was in Guns and Ammo but not sure this many years later. To be honest I’ve had more deer drop in their tracks with a 30/30 than either the 35 or 375 (admittedly a very small sampling). But I still think the 375 is cooler… but that’s just my opinion.
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To be honest I’ve had more deer drop in their tracks with a 30/30 than either the 35 or 375 (admittedly a very small sampling). But I still think the 375 is cooler… but that’s just my opinion. i agree with you on the 30-30 and the '06 (180gr Remington RN factory loads). i use a 35/30-30 with 200gr RCBS FNGC and 2400/tuft of dacron going roughly 1700fps and 444 Marlin with 300gr FNGC with 2400/tuft of dacon going roughly 1600fps. they kill deer after a short blood trail. the 9.3x57 with 275gr WFN GC with IMR4895 going roughly 1850fps will drop a deer or two or three... oh, i forgot....a 30-40 Krag with 165gr Ranch Dog and H4198 going roughly 1930fps will drop deer in their tracks too. i have killed about 10 or so deer that go DRT (shoulder and behind the shoulder shot).
"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
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Joined: Aug 2021
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300 RCM and 338 RCM. If you own both you are equipped to shoot any animal in North America and not be concerned about being under gunned. The beauty of both of these calibers is the rifles Ruger build to shoot them. Ruger started with a stock with a slightly shorter LOP, went with a 20 inch barrel, and added factory iron sights. I've said it elsewhere. 2 cartridges that come mighty close to their win mag predecessors and in rugged carbines with 20" pipes. A lot to like. Bingo. I am just as enamored by the 338 rcm today, as I was back when it was introduced. Possibly THE BEST Alaskan carbine ever made. Even left handed shooters got one. A mountain rifle in bear country, and so much more. From 300-500 yds shots on winter caribou, to ANCHORING tough goats in proximity of sheer vertical cliffs to rut-raged 60+ inch antlered bull moose, the 338 rcm is an everything gun. Im.surprised how many of RCM's I've encountered, in the hands of other Alaskan hunters. A simple mag follower flip, and they hold 4 cartridges down, something the wsms never could do. The rcm cartridges feed so nicely, slow or fast The factory 225 grain interbond ammo out penetrated 30 cal 220 nosler partitions(at 2480 fps) in spruce boards. Where the 338 RCM is just getting warmed up, the 30-06 ends. Then my 275 grain swift a-frame handloads are mighty close in performance to my 300 grain 9.3x62 handloads, all in a rifle that is lighter than the 30-30 rifle I carried as a kid. 225 grain stuff from a 338 rcm carbine is right at the threshold of lightweight and manageable recoil for meaningful shooting sessions, to hone your skills for those treeless alaska, winter caribou hunts. I named mine, 338 Elmer. The squat little thing most closely resembles him. All purpose frontiersman, in a compact package. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/sXvyBkZq/IMG-20210329-123335-209.jpg) It's almost inconceivable that the wonderful .338 RCM isn't more popular. Interesting comparison with the .338 RCM and .30-06. I did a similar comparison with the .308. With the 20" .338 RCM I am running 225's (SD of .281) at 2730 fps with Reloder 17. With a 3" box and long throat I'm running the 180's (SD of .271) in the .308 at 2700 fps in a 22" barrel using Varget. The .338 RCM is 8lb including scope which is perfect for me for that level of recoil, the .308 is 7 1/4 lbs including scope which is also perfect for me for that reduced level of recoil with the 180's. The only thing with the .338 RCM is I'm a bit reluctant to take it where the temperature may get around 90 (such as Africa) because of the use of Reloder 17.
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375 win, was what I started my son with many years ago. Jesse rebored my childhood 30-30 to 375 win. Anything bear/moose/caribou, it kills very well if shots be under 200 yds. 255 grain barnes O's expanded nicely, even at 170 yards: ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/CxL40RT8/image-57157.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/1Xdyzg7z/image-58022.jpg)
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Can't remember, has anyone put a vote in for the 444?
Always casually wanted one.
Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and
Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
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i still have mixed thoughts on speed verses big slower bullets , my 257 Weatherby mag with a good 100 gr. bullet like a Nosler Partition that shoots very fast " 3800 FPS" and accurate really hammers mule deer bucks, whitetail bucks , antelope , and bigger caribou bulls out to 400-500 yards this size animals never seem to make it very far if not knocked down right there for good or DRT. yes i have seen some big bullets do a good job too but i have seen some wounded animals to from some shooters too using bigger bullets. i just had Jess do a 35 Whelen for me i plan to use it on some hunts if its closer ranges , i did shoot a very nice Whitetail buck with a 45 caliber muzzle loader at 40 yards and that buck went right down too. i guess i am still not decided completely but i like the range i get with my 257 Weatherby mag. better , but if a big bear was after me then i for sure would want a bigger bullet cartridge to use. yes when i go to Africa next may i plan on just taking a plain jane 30-06 but those are for some other different reasons then.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Campfire Outfitter
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i still have mixed thoughts on speed verses big slower bullets , my 257 Weatherby mag with a good 100 gr. bullet like a Nosler Partition that shoots very fast " 3800 FPS" and accurate really hammers mule deer bucks, whitetail bucks , antelope , and bigger caribou bulls out to 400-500 yards this size animals never seem to make it very far if not knocked down right there for good or DRT. yes i have seen some big bullets do a good job too but i have seen some wounded animals to from some shooters too using bigger bullets. i just had Jess do a 35 Whelen for me i plan to use it on some hunts if its closer ranges , i did shoot a very nice Whitetail buck with a 45 caliber muzzle loader at 40 yards and that buck went right down too. i guess i am still not decided completely but i like the range i get with my 257 Weatherby mag. better , but if a big bear was after me then i for sure would want a bigger bullet cartridge to use. yes when i go to Africa next may i plan on just taking a plain jane 30-06 but those are for some other different reasons then. I have the same dilemma. I'm never quite convinced that my 45-70 is doing anything that my 30-06 can't do just as well. And I've shot game up to Moose with both and I'm still not convinced
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By far the 458 Win Mag. Always schit on by several writers and hunters in Africa, however they never cite any actual failures regarding the cartridge itself in stopping DG. Most who fugg up using a 458 Win Mag on DG are the reason for the fugg up because they can’t shoot it accurately. Most just pontificate about case capacity and some lots of schit ammo 60 years ago. The late Finn Aagaard was once quoted as saying he’s used the 458 Win Mag on DG as well as several other .458s, 470 Nitro and 500 Nitro and has never detected any difference in their abilities to kill or stop DG any better than the 458 Win Mag. With today’s powders and bullet technology it is now a better stopper then before, however it still gets unfairly bashed and probably always will.
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Can't remember, has anyone put a vote in for the 444?
Always casually wanted one. i have a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 444 Marlin. it has killed a dozen or so deer. i used 265gr Hornady FN, 275gr Ranch Dog, 280gr LFN GC, 280gr WFN GC and 300gr FN GC.
"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
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Campfire Tracker
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Can't remember, has anyone put a vote in for the 444?
Always casually wanted one. I've loved the ones I've had and used My first one was a 79 or 80 vintage or something like that, and I foolishly traded it off for some something I was hot for at the time and had the re-re's ever since. I have others, but I still would like to have that one back. I have one of the later short ones with the holes in the barrel to try next time I get to go. It does really good on paper, but it only counts if you filled freezer bags with it.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,966
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Can't remember, has anyone put a vote in for the 444?
Always casually wanted one. It has been brought up before in this thread, people not seeing what their 45-70 does any better than (name your cartridge). I've never really seen the need for a 444 since Marlin made the 45-70 in essentially the same rifle; after that its pretty much a bullet thing. I suppose a 30/06 kills as well or in some cases more than a 45/70, but the 45/70 is usually operating at much less pressure and the bullets may or may not be expanding at its impact speeds. I would suggest loading both with like bullets (flatnose solids) for a true likeness of the two and I would even allow the 30/06 shooter its best operating pressure to acertain any real world superiority for the Springfield....
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have the same dilemma. I'm never quite convinced that my 45-70 is doing anything that my 30-06 can't do just as well. And I've shot game up to Moose with both and I'm still not convinced A friend of mine at camp had been using his "primitive weapons season" 45-70 throughout the regular season. Then he got a 7mm-08. Now the day primitive is over he switches to his 7mm-08. For him, deer simply fall over faster when their chest cavity takes in a 139 grain Hornady.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'll expand on that chambering and add a very underrated rifle as in "not received recognition it deserves" - the Savage Mark II in .22, specifically any of the heavy barrel models. Sample of one here although with lots of supporting anecdotal evidence, but my sample will shoot right alongside a CZ 457 and a Tikka T1x at half the cost of either. I have a Savage Mk II as well. They are good shooters for not a lot of money. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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