Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 760 Project/Advice

I'd like some advice and help on a small project. I recently bought (sorry no pics as its still on its way to me now) an early 760 in 30-06. Its the rifle with the 22 inch barrel. It has a cheap scope on it that I will be taking off (along with those lovely see-thru mounts) but what I would like to do is turn it into a "Benoit style" wood rifle and have the barrel cut down to 18 1/2 inches and install a low-profile/power scope on it. My questions are:

1. What length should I cut the barrel to? I'm thinking 18 1/2 or so. I'm not planning on re-installing the front sight and will remove the rear.

2. Scope choice? I'm limited to a budget of about $200. I've got a VX-1 2x7x33 on another rifle that I really like so am thinking along those lines as far as power/size. Suggestions?

3. Any particular loads that would work well in a short barrel? I'm thinking 180s as far as bullet weight but I'm all ears to load suggestions

4. Any pitfalls with doing this? Has anyone done this and found something I should be aware of? Has anyone done this and regretted it?

Looking forward to hearing what you all think

Get some ear plugs!

And dark glasses if you plan on shooting it near first or last light. The 18.5" barrel will leave you half deaf and blind without protection. I had one of the carbines years ago and quickly traded it for a 22" rifle for just that reason.

I wouldn't cut the barrel. A Leupold M8 4x can be had for your budget.

Truthfully, unless you really want the 18.5" barrel so you can really have a "Benoît special" I'd chop it at 20. The VX1 2-7x33 is almost the perfect scope for it. Then only one I'd like better would be a 1.75-6.

Could be a sweet rifle. Post pics when you get it.

That's what I did with a 760 270. Had it chopped to 20" and it's danged nice. Saying that, I have a 35 Whelen Carbine I don't find especially bad.



Whelen





Agree about the 2-7 or the old 1.75-6 if you can find one.

Leave the barrel alone save the expense of cut and crown.
Put a Vari X llc 2x7 on it, get a barrel band sling mount and a stud in the rear. Then have Mc Carbo send you a lighter trigger spring. Put a Verro Velinni sling on it .Go find a pair of AL Lindner sunglasses wear them. Maybe a Felt safari hat you want cool now you got it. Where do I send the consulting bill?.mb

Ammo makers have had 117 years to figure out the 30-06, so almost anything should work well.


I haven’t cut up a 760, but I have cut up other rifles. My regrets come from moving too quickly because I lost sight of what I wanted to accomplish.

The Benoit rifle is a mix of features carefully chosen to support a specific hunting style. The Benoits literally speed marched or ran through deep snow while tracking huge bucks from dawn until dusk for days on end. They used carbines to minimize weight and peep sights because most of their shots were close and fast. Those shots demand a rifle that balances well. They were also not shy about shooting as many times as needed to drop a big buck, and Remington pumps are pretty good at that.

Shortening a rifle’s barrel cuts weight but it also pushes the balance aft. Scopes makes this worse since they sit aft of the balance point. The heavier the scope, the worse it gets. If the balance point moves too far to the rear, then the muzzle will float on fast shots. Peep sights don't weigh enough to do that.

You can read everyone’s thoughts on balance here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/18593502/1

If you use your rifle scoped, then you have to accept the fact that you're departing pretty significantly from the Benoit model so you won't get the same benefits.

I'd shoot it with a scope before I cut the barrel. Use a timer and paper targets to see how long it takes to get solid hits at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards. Try the existing scope and mounts to set a baseline. Then put the older scope in very low mounts and see how that goes. The results might surprise you.

You can probably find a 2.5x or fixed 4x Leupold on the Classifieds around here for $200-ish.

Then you can make better decisions about sights and barrel length.


Okie John

I'm in the process of doing similar now.

I've got a 7600 .243Win barrel with JES now being bored out to .358Win, might get back in the next couple weeks.

My smith here will cut/crown it at 19", reinstall the sights and CeraKote it. I've already replaced the wood with synthetic. I'm now just waiting for Leupold to get some VX3HD 1.5-5X FireDot "Twilight" Hunter back in stock, so I can take advantage of my .mil discount. I'll mount it using Warne QDs so the irons are an option.

From what I've read/seen, even the Benoits started using optics.

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/trophy-room-the-benoit-bucks/

I also have a 20" .260 Rem M7, and a 20" .350RM M7, I don't think I'm going to notice a difference of 1".

As other mentioned, I’d leave the barrel at 22”

I had a 2-7 on mine for load development, then installed a Williams WG peep and red fire sight front. I like it…the way it carry’s and the balance. If yours has the front sling swivel on the forearm, then attach to the barrel like Magnum Bob mentioned.

Beretzs, good taste in rifles and snuff 👍

I'm a fan of rifles with a neutral balance, so would recommend mounting the scope that you want in the base and rings combination that you want and see how it feels before cutting the barrel back. Two or three inches of barrel length probably isn't going to make the rifle feel much different or make it any handier unless you're jumping into or out of vehicles.

If you have any early 760, it probably has a pretty low stock comb and you might find that a Beartooth Comb Riser sleeve will help to better align your eye with your scope. They come with or without cartridge loops.

I'd say cut it as short as you'd like to accomplish your vision for the rifle. If I wanted a fast handling easy to carry pumpgun, I'd put up with a bit more blast and flash to get there. One of my favorites to sneak through the tamarack and cedar swamps is a 16" .308. It's probably loud and has a muzzle flash, but I wear ear protection and sight in during the day. The deer don't care. Also, I'd probably reinstall the front sight because to me they odd without. JMO YMMV

I stand corrected.


Okie John

I owned a 308 Carbine (18.5") for years and went to 20" instead. Now on my 3rd 760 cut to 20" and would not go any shorter. I currently use a 1
5-5 on my 30-06 in the lowest mounts I could find here. It's a perfect combo. Also had it drilled for a Williams FP which works very well indeed.

My dad always hunted with one. He didn't get great bullet performance with the 180 grain out of the 18.5" barrel so he was always a 150 guy after that

Thanks Tom!

Agreed.
I have (and have 'had' more) rifle and carbine length 760/7600s.
The only factory carbine I have left is my .35 Remington. IMO, it's the perfect balance but isn't anywhere near as snorty as the '06 carbines.
I have a factory Whelen that's finally getting cut to 20".
As far as scopes, the 1.5-5 is kinda the 'standard'. I'm pulling the 2.5-8 off my Whelen and replacing it with a 1-4 accupoint. The reticle will be about perfect for deer/bear.

I have a 16" barrel rechambered 760 in .358 Win. Also have several stock 760's. I carry the .358 more than any of the others. Perfect walk around rifle. It is LOUD to shoot though.

I like short rifles, my favorite is a 660.

Not a fan of the Reminton pumps, just for the record.


Mine is a later 760, one with the scalloped receiver and basketweave.

It has a low mounted 3x9. VX-2 and handles like a shotgun.
It balances well and is faster than its scale weight would indicate.
I've never thought it too long.

That receiver has some weight, I'd think you could quickly get muzzle light. That's not a good thing. For fast shooting its whippy, for deliberate off hand shooting the muzzle wobbles like a drunk on a tightrope.

You didn't say what you are hunting with it, so I'm guessing by your location mainly deer and hogs. For such, I love 165 grainers out of the 06. Killed many deer with the 165 Rem Core-Lokts before I started handloading. I've killed several with the 165 Sierra H.P. Game Kings since I started handloading. It has been a very accurate bullet.

My first rifle was a 760 30-06. I reckon due to stock design, it was the hardest recoiling 06 I ever shot. Might want to consider a recoil pad if you're going to shoot it a bunch. As for the barrel, personally I wouldn't go below 20". You wouldn't be giving up much velocity or handiness and with a light 2 x 7 scope, balance would probably still be decent enough. To each his own, whatever works for you is where you need to be.

My 18" M760 in 35 Remington is perfect. 35 Rem operates at lower pressures so shorter barrels aren't overly obnoxious. I wouldn't want this particular barrel any shorter. It's my Wisconsin woods gun. Never had any problems with it failing to make rated speeds. I don't believe it's a factory carbine. Whoever worked mine over did a good job. Barrel crown is perfect and accuracy is excellent.

BOOM!

I have long wondered why Remington chose not to d&t the 740/742/74/7400 and 760/76/7600 series for a peep sight? They used to d&t the 700 series for years and I have very seldom seen a receiver sight installed on a 700.

I had a trapdoor buttplate made for my Winchester 100s so that I could install the base and store the working part of a Lyman 66W88 inside the stock just in case the scope failed. With a one-piece Weaver base installed I can pull the scope, more quickly if it is installed with QD rings, and install the peep sight. The "trough" of the Weaver base allows me to easily use the peep sight without having to install a higher front sight. I've never used it in the field, but have swapped back and forth at the range a few time and the return to zero is easily minute-of-deer.

A Williams FP or Lyman on a 20" 760 is perfection.

First question is have you tried Benoit style hunting? You need tracking snow and vast sections of huntable property without many hunters. I'd read everything I could get my hands on Benoit's from the first Sports Afield article with Larry on the cover from the '70's. I even cut down a m141 .35 Remington and put on fiber optic front sight and a peep. I went tracking for a few years and got some nice bucks... for other guys who shot "my" buck. Nope, with 630,000 hunting deer here, there are just too many hunters to successfully "Benoit" one on a regular basis where I hunt.

I might go still hunting a little at mid day, but if you are like most guys you will probably want to be on a stand first thing in the morning and again later in the day. That says scope sight to me. For a compromise walking sitting scope you want a huge exit pupil, lighter weight, lower power, lower mounted scope. My combination deer rifle is a 22" barrel m99F .300 Savage with a Leupold 1.5-5x20 Var-X lll with the heavy duplex reticle. That thing points like my index finger and perfect for that application.

Still a PSG? If so, I doubt you have the time or peace and quiet to hunt Benoit style. BTDT

With that said, I would find which bullets the rifle likes the best. 150, 165, or 180s all will do the job at short, woods distances but you will need to consider bullet construction as any significant barrel shortening will affect muzzle velocities.

Thanks for all the replies! I appreciate all the advice. What my vision was was to make a short handy woods rifle. I mainly hunt in South Carolina and the shots can range from a few feet to 100+ yards. Usually its from a tree-stand. I also hunt in the big woods of the Adirondacks (Tug Hill area to be exact) and there its either still hunting or stands/blinds. I have a friend who did this to a 7600 in 270 (I'm not sure how short he cut the barrel-I'll have to ask) and I always really liked the rifle so decided I'd like a similar rifle but in 30-06 instead.

From all the advice I've received here, I'll get it scoped and try it as is but am leaning towards a 20" barrel

Please keep the suggestions and comments coming!

Dinny,

No longer a PSG, Now a retired 1SG

In their later years the Benoits went to scoped rifles . Low powered Leupold variables.

Pretty small sample size. Take it for what it is worth. For many years I shot 30-06 with 165s of many varieties, but mostly ballistic tips, over 60 gr of H4831. It was a very accurate load in several bolt rifles. My Dad's 22 inch 760 shot 1.5 moa with it.

But in Mom's 18.5 inch 742, I could not keep five rounds on a 9 inch paper plate. A switch to IMR 3031 with the 165 bt was the solution. The rifle was again a 300 yd deer gun. That was the late '70s, so I can not state the powder charge.

Now, whether the issue was the gas port and semi auto action or the carbine length barrel, I do not know. But the faster powder definitely cured the problem.

I retired 2 years ago. Made the new 8 list with a low number a few weeks before I signed out on terminal leave. I have no regrets!

Enjoy your time afield!

Everyone should have an 18 1/2" .30-06 peep sighted 760. Cut it! What an awesome weapon. Next time you're in the Adirondacks find a track and go. There is really nothing like this kind of hunting. Everyone here is right - if the stock has enough drop to put your eye right behind the peep sight, you'll be recanting within 3 shots from the bench. It will hurt you. Also, an 18 1/2' .30-06 is deafening! But, offhand at a 50yd buck, you'll never know it went off. Tracking is a young man's game though, with a steep learning curve. I've had a little success but, I'm no Larry Benoit. If nothing else it will give you an appreciation for what Larry, Lanny & Co. do/did. As I get older I find I really appreciate a scope. 2-7 is ok but, for a dedicated tracking gun I'd want a true 2x (2x7's are more like 2.5x) and maybe scout mounted. Some folks do fine with higher power maybe you're one of them. Practice offhand at 50 yds. Stand 90degrees from the target, port arms, sing your favorite song until you forget what you're doing then spin raise the rifle and shoot. Try it on a moving target. All of a sudden 50yds is a long way off! When the Benoits switched to scopes Lanny went 3-9 Trijicon but Larry went 1-4 Trijicon which would be my choice between the two. I've always used 180gr round nose corelokts because that's what Larry used and they work well but, Lanny used various 150gr .270's through a 19" barrel if I remember correctly but I know he's not afraid to switch things up either.

Whatever you do get a copy of Larry's "How to Bag the Biggest Buck of Your Life" if you haven't already.

As my eyesight started to go, I went from a peep to a 2-7 on my 30-06 carbine. I think it is just about perfect for what I do

The carbine certainly does kill ‘em and grill ‘em at the same time. I’d gladly get rid of it if I could find a decent affordable 35 REM.

Peep sight seems appropriate.
I wouldn't cut the barrel until I got a scope and I wouldn't go straight to 18"

I've killed quite a few deer with a 760 Carbine in .30-06, using a Burris FFII 2-7x.

760 +30-06 = Mule kicker worst kicking rifle ever, up to and including 50 cal. and loud - have fun brace urslef,

Recoil on mine has never been an issue, even with 165-180gr bullets.

Kick Eez, Limb Saver, or Pachmeyer! Those original Remington steel butt plates are killers.



And here is that 35 Remington someone was asking about! Two days left to bid.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1010668507

You have so vastly oversimplified and misstated the most difficult method of deer hunting extant to a point where I doubt you understand it at all. First, the Benoit family of the NE Kingdom of VT and the Bernier family of Maine along with a number from of other well known practitioners of the same dark arts from Maine back to the Adirondack Mountains area including the famous NY tracker Jim Massi tracked because deer in these wilderness regions are largely migratory deer rather than small lot deer who are often able to be patterned.

Second they often had to cover ground at speed but that was only to catch up on a good buck when tracks were several hours old. As they got closer by reading the sign of the animal they slowed to a speed necessary to move with the animal while still covering ground until they got to a point where a shot was possible. Did you know they also did this on bare ground? So it was much much more than running down deer in deep snow.

Moreover northern Maine for example is a hatch cross of old and new logging roads and trails so with a map and compass they could get themselves to a road at some point to get out. As to rifle choice I think they picked something portable and fast since the majority of shot distances were less than 50 yards in mixed growth woods. I am not convinced a barrel shorter than 22” offers any advantage to the hunter under such conditions but I do think a red dot sight would be handy as heck. A well known tracker in Maine I know has over 40 Biggest Bucks in Maine patches and mounts those bucks with their heads turned in the attitude they were in when he shot them. Most are turned looking back or behind them. He favors a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and says he puts up a wall of lead until the buck is down. Note, he said there is no need to spray and pray but rather shoot and hit until the buck is down.

It is the pinnacle of hunting deer but there is so much more to it than what you wrote John.

Having been a practitioner of tracking and still hunting in northern WI and MN, with a nice collection of racks to show for it. FOV on a rifle that fits to the point when the butt hits your shoulder your looking through the scope. I liked short rifles, still do for coyote hunting. 16.25" Sav 99 in 308, sporterised 1917 in 30-06 16.5" both tossing heavy RN's, 180's in the 308 and 220's in the 06. Scopes over the years Weaver V-4.5, K-1.5, V-3, and Leupold 1-4'sin their various forms.

I sure like that you put the sights back on it after the chop.

Well Okie... we get old. I have a Win M64 that I put a peep on last fall. I just couldn't throw that rifle out of balance by putting a scope on. I'm not going to shoot it further than 50 yards anyway.

The Benoit boys have been using scopes for a few years now but still aren't afraid to throw a little lead if needed.

With the scopes you're looking to put on it, I don't think you'll be wrong. Those are great close range optics. I have a VX2 1-5 on a Rem 740 that was my grandpa's rifle. It's a "shotgun" scope I guess so the reticle is wide and easy to see in low light.

Years ago we cut a 760 in 35 Rem to 16.5" and mounted a 2.5 compact Leupold. We then cut the pistol grip off and turned the stock into a straight grip. The owner got involved in some crop damage permits and I have no idea how many deer he killed with it. Very accurate, low recoil and handled like a good shot gun. For its intended use the 760 does quite well.

Dinny,

I was similar to you but turned down E-9 to retire. It was 2009 and I didn't want to sell my soul and deploy again

I'm willing to stand corrected on that, too. I've never hunted that part of the country and I haven't seen my copy of Larry Benoit's book in years.

I'd be all ears if you want to expand on any of this.


Okie John

Certainly one of the more interesting aspects of hunting deer in these wilderness areas is the fact that the terrain is so vast they wander unlike woodlot deer. Deer don’t know a thing about international borders for example and they can and do cover distance into Canada sometimes. Also interesting is the low, low population density of these animals. The weather here is a major factor as well. I suspect the same for other northern WTs in different parts of the US and Canada.
Anyway, big woods tracking takes a lot of bushcraft and is not always successful as one may imagine. The northern forests in Maine can be pretty thick and can also offer new or old cuts and various hardwood areas. I’ve tracked some to a successful conclusion in the snow and it really requires all of one’s attention. In that regard it can be quite mentally taxing which combined with hard physical walking can make for a long day.
I swear these trackers are part Indian! There’s another guy down in Massachusetts named Jeff Doyle who was posting content on YouTube for a while and he was quite knowledgeable in this area. It’s hard to get close to them I know that much! I like the choice of the 06 for this application as it is bad medicine on big deer. My buddy has a nice Whelen he needs to blood so hoping for early snow this year in the hopes of getting on the track.
What are the deer in WA? Don’t you also have the Roosevelt elk?

We have blacktails west of the Cascade crest, whitetails on the eastern edge of the state, and muleys in between. Smarter folks than me describe hybrids where two species meet, so call it five species.

Blacktail terrain can be as mild or steep as you like. Vegetation is stands of dense timber mixed with clear cuts where you can see for miles. By deer season (the last two weeks in October) it’s probably been raining for several weeks so the ground will be slippery and temperatures will be in the high 30s. It’s classic hypothermia country.

I took the attached picture a few hours ago while chasing black bears. You can see the difference between clearcuts and standing timber, but you can’t see how difficult it can be to traverse a clearcut. I’ll try to get some pictures of that in the next few days. Imagine rough and broken (but soft and squishy) terrain covered with thigh-high brush, most of which is blackberry vines covered with thorns.

Terrain and vegetation east of the Cascade crest look more like the Mountain West. I haven’t hunted there much, but I do know that the seasons are more distinct, and have greater variation between annual highs and lows.

Roosevelts are a beast unto themselves. They’re 20% larger than Rocky Mountain elk, or about the size of an American Quarter Horse, but their racks are much smaller. If you compare both species, then you’ll be forgiven for thinking that Rocky Mountain antlers belong on Roosevelt elk and vice versa.

They live in blacktail country but the season is in November. It WILL rain, and the rain will be like getting sprayed with a hose. If you wound one, they will dive into the deepest, nastiest hole you can imagine and die there.



Okie John

Thanks to all again. I should have the rifle in my hands in a few weeks (I'm getting it from a friend about 3 states north of me when I make my next trek up there) and I'll post pics when I get it done.