Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats My 308 Norma story

Hey guys,

First, a bit of a backstory!

Lately, I've been having some friends and family members come hunting with me - which is great, but unfortunately the smallest centrefire that I owned was a Winchester M70 Synthetic Matte in .338 Win Mag.
Now this was a very fine rifle and served me well taking both Fallow and Sambar deer - and l have a real soft spot for Winchester M70's, but it was a pretty light rifle.
And even though it was Magnaported and l was using 180gn projectiles instead of the 225gn, people who shot it all commented on it's heavy recoil.

So l started searching for a rifle that would still be effective on big Sambar deer - even at longer ranges, but be more pleasant to shoot than the .338...
Now due to some health issues and medical bills my gun budget was ZERO! So if l was to buy a rifle l had to sell a rifle... so that meant my much loved Winchester .338 was sold to fund another rifle.

So while all this was happening l was looking in the classifieds on a local hunting/ shooting forum and a rifle stood out. It was a M17 Enfield rifle that had been customised and re-barreled in 308 Norma Mag. A quick message to the owner and he assured me all works well. It feeds, extracts and ejects perfectly and the barrel and boltface are all in good condition. It also came with Leupold rings and bases, 48 pieces of Norma brass and loading dies - and it was being sold at a ridiculously low price... so l bought it based on photo's and description.

A few weeks later and the rifle was in my hands and the rifle was exactly as described. It worked perfectly and as an added bonus the rifle was glass-bedded and the barrel was free floated. The trigger wasn't bad and apart from some issues with the mounts (which the owner told me about) there was no surprises... except one.
The barrel was only 22.75" long. Now this wasn't a deal breaker anything, but I was curious on what velocities I would get out of it.

I had already made up my mind that l wanted to use 180gn projectiles and all my reloading manuals list this weight bullet as doing around 3000fps from the Norma, but with a 26" barrel.
I had already decided that l wanted at least 2900fps so l loaded up 6 rounds with H4831 powder and some 180gn Woodleigh PP projectiles that l had a handful of to see how close l could get.
l loaded 2 with 71gn, 2 with 72gn and the last 2 with 73gn - which is the book max.
The velocities l achieved were:
71gn - 2800fps
72gn - 2880fps
73gn - 2917fps
I made it!
None of these loads showed excessive pressure but l stopped at 73gn as l had achieved my desired velocity. Surprisingly, the 73gn load wasn't compressed either, but l do use a drop-tube for all my reloading.
So I had a velocity decrease of 103fps from 26" to 22.5" barrel length - or 30fps per inch.

The problem l had now was what projectile to use. The Woodleigh's performed really well but they are just so hard to get at the moment...
I thought of using Hornady interlocks, Sierra Gamekings and a few others but then remembered that the bullet manufacturer Atomic 29 make a monometal 175gn hollowpoint in .308.
Atomic 29 are an Australian made bullet manufacturer that make monometal hollowpoints in a variety of calibers. They have an outstanding reputation for both accuracy and field performance and they are what l use in my custom 425 Express.
So I've just purchased a box and as soon as they arrive l'll work up a load and chronongraph them. Am aiming for 2900 - 2950 fps... stay tuned!

As a comparison, the load l was using in my .338WM was the 180gn Woodleigh at a MV of 3060fps.
My Norma is shooting the 180gn Woodleigh at a MV of 2917fps, so a bit slower.
But the BC of the Woodleigh in the Norma is better so the actual trajectory between the 2 rounds is within .5" out to 350m. So nearly identical.
BUT the recoil of the 308 Norma is around 27ft/lbs while the .338WM was a touch over 40ft/lbs. This is a noticeable difference and after firing the Norma with full power loads l can attest that recoil is softer.

I forgot to mention that when l got the rifle it came with some reloads that the previous owner had loaded. He had already told me they they were mild starting loads with the 165gn projectile. I chronographed some and they recorded a speed of 2800fps. So .30-06 power level. And when fired were very easy on the shoulder.
As an added bonus, when I quickly fired a few at a target they all went in the same hole - so they're accurate too.
So my plan is to use these loads on family and friends to introduce them to the rifle and then work up to the full power loads.

So there's my 308 Norma story so far. The 308 Norma is one of those rounds that l've always been interested in from reading about it in old shooting magazines (the 8mm Remington Magnum is another...) and I'm now happy l finally own one.
Buying a used rifle is always potentially problematic - especially when you haven't actually laid eyes on it, but l'm happy to say this wasn't the case here. I couldn't be happier and fitted with my 3-9 Leupold it's all ready for action!

I'll keep you all posted on how it all goes and stay peeled for a hunt report... my 308 Norma journey has just begun!

Russ.








.300 Wby - .300 Win Mag - 308 Norma Mag

Awesome story Russ. Thanks for sharing with us. The 308Norma has a place in my heart as well. I always thought that would be the ultimate 300 magnum. I used to say that if I ever bought a 308 Norma magnum, I'd sell the rest of my rifles. Now being a rifle loony, I can't really hold up that end of the bargain. The 308 Norma was chambered in many 1903's and sporterized m1917's like your rifle. Which by the way is a beautiful rifle. You did well on that one. It looks very nicely done.

A few years ago, I had my m1917 (BSA model E) rechambered to 308 Norma magnum, so it's basically the same rifle you have. The beauty of this rifle is it holds 4 in the magazine. Just like my H&H pre 64's.



Here's a pretty good shooting mild load I use in my 308 Norma, with one of my favorite bullets:


The rifle is consistent shooting, generally punching 3/4" 3 shot groups:


Your rifle is nicer than mine, but I'll post a pic of it since there are not a whole lot of us here that shoot the 308 Norma:


Thanks for sharing your 308 Norma story. At one time, I wanted to collect all the 300 magnums made. But am down to a 300wm, 308 Norma, 300 WSM, 300 WBY, and a 300 RSAUM, which seems like a ballistic twin to the 308 Norma, but with a short fat case. The 308 Norma always seemed like a souped up cool belted 30-06 to me, but I liked it because it was basically a 338wm necked down. Keep us posted on the loads you work up in that beauty!!

Nice looking wood on the op's rifle. My 308 Norma is a rechambered 03 A3 it is a shooter then some..mb

Great story. The 308 Norma is a great one. I like the 300 Win but the Norma would have been a better fit in M70’s 3.4 mag they used for the 300 Win back in the day.

My 308 Norma is a Pre-war model 70 which belonged to my Dad. He had it re-chambered from 30/06 in 1962, I believe. I rebarreled it in 1987. I used a brand new Sako barrel in 300 Win mag, which I set back to fit the Model 70 and chambered in 308 Norma. My load is 71 of IMR 4350 behind a 180. This gives me 3070 fps. 69 grains drives a 200 to 2960 and 67.5 does 2800 with 220's. It is the best of the belted 30's. GD

When I was young I always wanted a 308 Norma Mag. Always have been intrigued by that round. I doubt I’ll get one now. Cool story, and nice rifle.

And why would you not? There is no age limit on the ownership of any rifle! GD

Well done!
The 308 Norma was and is my favorite of the big 30’s. I remember reading Norma’s advertisements in the shooting magazines encouraging conversation of 30/06’s. There were many 1903’s, 1917’s, 98’s, M70’s that were rechambered.

I eventually got a 30/338 which is pretty much the same. Many of the 308 Norma users form their brass from 338 Win cases so you may be able to use your old stuff. Might be a good idea to anneal the necks. The cases are a little short overall but the shoulder will be just fine if you set a secondary shoulder on the 338 neck. Good shooting.

Because Dad had the 308 Norma, and I shot it quite a lot, I've always thought highly of it. It is a very well designed round. The 30-338 is as well, and Winchester would have done everyone a favor by legitimizing that cartridge instead of bring out the 300WM. Actually, if Winchester had simply chosen to put the 30 Newton in the Model 54 and 70, we could have saved 100 years of cartridge development! GD

I have a custom Springfield in 300 Apex. For all practical purposes, it's the same as the 308 Norma and the 30-338. In fact, I use 338 WinMag brass to make the Apex.

RinB;
Good evening to you sir, I hope the first day of October behaved in your part of the world and you're well.

Thanks for adding your experiences with the .308 Norma, as well as the rest of the respondents as well.

You're correct in that either .338WM or 7mmRem Mag brass can be resized into .308 Norma brass.

Years back on one of the many times John Barsness kindly replied to my queries, after I'd asked if the shorter necks which resulted in doing that were a concern, his reply was something like I tended to worry too much about some details unnecessarily.

Our first .308 Norma was built for my wife actually as she wanted something that shot a tad flatter than her .308 carbine. This was a Steyr made 98 wartime action with a mystery barrel purchased from a shooting and reloading mentor when I found it among the barrels under his couch. He was a life long bachelor and it was that sort of living room. It had been threaded for what we thought might be a small ring Mauser, but had lots of meat on the chamber end still, though the overall barrel length is 23 5/8".

I want to say it was a Bishop stock that I remodeled and checkered for this one.



At that time I was shooting an '06 mostly and when I saw the results when she used it on a couple longer shots on mulie bucks out here, as well as borrowing it a couple times, I decided my .338 Liberty Model 77 should be a .308 Norma as well. It's got a Parker Hale barrel on it which I picked up at a gun show from a shop that had bought a bunch of the parts when they closed up shop.

This is the third stock on it which I did up from a Richards semi-inletted blank.



As life goes sometimes, I ended up with a .300 Win Mag somewhat later which became my horseback hunting rifle during the time we had horses in our lives. With it's 26" barrel and usual long Ruger throat from the early '80's, it gave all the velocity that one can get from that fine round.

Since it was mine and I can't seemingly leave much alone, I built a different fore end for it, added a Moyers trigger, Gentry barrel band and fabricated a barrel tuner.



As well as our two .308 Normas, during that time I played with another shooting buddy's .308 Norma built on a commercial Mauser action and shot another one on an early Model 70 action a few times too.

Honestly when we'd chronograph loads with bullets from 130gr to 200gr, the .308 Norma really wasn't left in the dust by the .300 Win Mag Ruger in any instance that I can recall. Again that was loading to book recipes and not pushing the envelope beyond that.

I want to say also without looking back through my reloading notes that powders from as fast as H4895 gave fairly decent results, which surprised me at the time.

Hopefully the OP will have as much good luck and good hunting with his .308 Norma as we have with ours over the years.

All the best to you all out there. Good hunting.

Dwayne

When I traded into my 308 Norma a 03A3, brass was short supply. So I took a 50 rd box of 338 win and sized them down to 308 Norma and fireformed. The Norma has 2.56 " case length and my 338 brass was 2.5" to start it ended up short but as said doesn't bother much. Awhile later I bought a post 64 custom m70 in 30 -338 with a heavy sporter contour barrel 30 " long it's the tits. 180 gr nbt's at 3150 fps no pain or strain just neck size. It's a big bitch to lug around but it does shoot nice. The 30 mags sure get the job done but aren't the gun for those who need to whack a barrel to 20" or less..mb

Bob,

Some time ago I used a 30-338 as my primary hunting rifle. Then I decided I wanted less weight. I don’t like brakes and just couldn’t manage the recoil in a sub 7# rifle. I got a big 7 but it also became too much. Aging is relentless.

I am a big believer in precise shot placement. Today I use a 270/280 that is around 6.5# without ammo.

Incidentally I am finding that shorter barrels are more appealing. Started with 24” then 23” then 22.75” then 22.5” then 22”. Now somewhere around 20”. Doubt I will go less than 20”.

I can’t see any difference in on game results with any of the combinations listed herein.
Rick

Excellent post on the subject.

I got a sporterized 03-A1 that was rechambered to 308 Norma about fifteen years ago from my local pawnshop owner/friend. It had a 4X Leupold in Redfield Jr mounts. It was $100.00, OTD. The barreled action was in a beautiful Bishop stock, and I glassed the action, installed a Timney trigger, then gave it to my boyhood friend.

He still has it, and it's become his favorite rifle. Each shot tries to crawl through the first shot's hole, and the felt recoil is very mild in the Bishop stock.

The 308 Norma is a great round, IMO.

That's pretty cool man. It's nice to give your friends stuff like that. I did that with my long time best friend. He said he always wanted a rifle like I had growing up. He remembered that old sporterized m1917 I used all those years. I ended up finding a rifle I wanted for the stock, then gave my buddy the other rifle with the other stock. He made out prettywell:


I gave that rifle to him on his 50th birthday. Never saw him tear up, until that day. His boy shoots it more than he does now, but he says he'll never get rid of it. That is a P14, but those are great candidates for a 308 Norma build, as well.

A 1903 is a cool one to have too. I have ran across a few, but it seems like they always have a roll over cheek piece and I can't shoot them. Since I shoot left handed.

Like beretzs said, it seems like the 308 Norma would have been a better candidate for a standard rifle pre 64 model 70, but Winchester drug their feet for way longer than they should have and brought out the 300wm (almost 4 years after the fact). Stupid as far as I'm concerned. I think guys back then were thinking Winchester would have just necked down the 338wm back in '59 and the greatest 300 magnum would have been born. Although, they took too long and Norma jumped on the bandwagon and did what Winchester should have done.

The lr guys beat the 308 Norma I believe with the 30-338 thinking that was what ww would come out with. Believe I read that..mb

Winchester designed the 300 cartridge to be physically larger than the 308 Norma. Otherwise, they didn't believe they could get it to sell. They even had ads comparing the two cartridges so people could see the 300 was the larger of the two. I believe Norma designed the 308 at .050 longer just to be sure it would clean up a 30/06 chamber. The 358 Norma is shorter. GD

Mine is a restocked Parker-Hale Mauser

That's a beauty. Looks more like a pre 64 winchester featherweight. Nice rifle SCGunNut.

Nice rifle, and I like that the grip is checkered.