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Mule Deer,
I was reading some posts on the Africa forum and saw a post you made that was something to the effect of one could probably hunt a lifetime and not see an appreciable difference between using a 7x57 and a .30-06 when using bullets of the same construction and comparable weight (I'm assuming you meant 160 gr 7mm vs. 165 gr 30 caliber and 175 gr 7mm vs. 180 gr 30 caliber).
I know 100 fps here or there does not matter much in hunting applications, but I was wondering what 7x57 velocities are typical for you with various 7mm bullet weights and how you came to decide on those velocities? (because in some loading manuals there is a very large difference between 7x57 velocities and .30--06 velocities for the same weight bullets). I'm guessing you are using "modern" pressure loads (perhaps ones comparable in either pressure or velocity to 7mm-08 loads?), and obviously the caveats that the loads are safe in your gun(s), etc. apply.
Also, what 7mm bullet weights do you typically use for different applications (pronghorn, deer, caribou, elk, African plains game, etc.)?
Thanks.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I have loaded bullets from 120 to 175 grain in the 7x57 for hunting over the years. They all work when pointed right, which is what I've found with hunting bullets in general. A case could be made for using, say, 120's on pronghorn or 175's on moose, but in the real world there isn't nearly as much difference as most people believe. Load a 120 and a 175 to maximum safe velocity (say 3000 fps and 2600 fps), sight them both in 2" high at 100 yards, and the difference in trajectory at 300 will be about 4 inches. If you know your load's trajectory, either will be effective.
But I have found that there is a signficant difference in wind droft between light and heavy bullets, which is not nearly as predictable as trajectory. So with many hunting rounds these days I tend to pick bullet weights somewhere in the middle.
Also, I like to use "standard" bullets, because they're cheaper, a lot of readers use them, and because there's no reason not to, if velocity is kept within certain parameters. Over the years I've found that at 2700 fps or so do, standard bullets hold together quite well on deer-sized game, and also shoot flat enough and retain enough velocity to expand all the way out to 400 yards.
So these days I am loading bullets in the 160-grain range in my Serengeti 7x57. The load I use with all of them is 46.0 grains of H4350, and muzzle velocity runs from 2650 to 2700, depending on the bullet. As a general load I use the 160 Sierra GameKing, which works great for sighting-in and deer-sized game. All the other loads shoot close enough to the Sierra so that if I decide to hunt wildebeest or moose or whatever, I can just put some rounds loaded with 156 Norma Oryxes or 160 North Forks in the rifle and go hunting.
So far this has worked fine. I haven't shot anything at 400 yards with the rifle, but have killed a couple of animals at 375 or so (with the Sierras). Have also taken wildebeest and moose with stouter bullets.
Nosler lists 46.0 grains IMR4350 as maximum with 160-grain bullets in their manual, and H4350 is generally slightly slower. I have not had any of my loads pressure-tested, but none show the slightest sign of high pressure, even in warm weather, and brass life is great. So I assume the pressures are OK in my rifle.
But maybe next year I'll go on a 120 or 150 or 175 kick. Who knows?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Just my two cents..... Excellent questions asked by Ramblin_Razorback and an excellent answer by Mule Deer. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.bunduki.com/bob/emoticons/thumbsup.gif) I don't have a 7x57 but I do have a new .280 Rem, that I haven't tried working up handloads for yet, and this gives me some good ideas for my .280 Rem. (I'm talking about what bullet weights and types to try out; not about using 7x57 powder charges in my .280 Rem.) Thanks for the posts! Cheers! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.bunduki.com/bob/emoticons/beer2.gif) -Bob F.
"Whose bright idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot? It's working!" -- P. J. O'Rourke
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Don't forget there's 2 different factory pressure loadings in the 7 x 57. One, the lower one, is to prevent pressures of 50K or so in M 93 and M 95 Mausers and is noted as 7mm Mauser. The other, for 98 Mauser and other modern actions is noted as 7 x 57 Mauser or just 7 x 57. Makes a ton of difference which load you use.
Wayne
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I have loaded bullets from 120 to 175 grain in the 7x57 for hunting over the years. They all work when pointed right, which is what I've found with hunting bullets in general. A case could be made for using, say, 120's on pronghorn or 175's on moose, but in the real world there isn't nearly as much difference as most people believe. Load a 120 and a 175 to maximum safe velocity (say 3000 fps and 2600 fps), sight them both in 2" high at 100 yards, and the difference in trajectory at 300 will be about 4 inches. If you know your load's trajectory, either will be effective.
But I have found that there is a signficant difference in wind droft between light and heavy bullets, which is not nearly as predictable as trajectory. So with many hunting rounds these days I tend to pick bullet weights somewhere in the middle.
Also, I like to use "standard" bullets, because they're cheaper, a lot of readers use them, and because there's no reason not to, if velocity is kept within certain parameters. Over the years I've found that at 2700 fps or so do, standard bullets hold together quite well on deer-sized game, and also shoot flat enough and retain enough velocity to expand all the way out to 400 yards.
So these days I am loading bullets in the 160-grain range in my Serengeti 7x57. The load I use with all of them is 46.0 grains of H4350, and muzzle velocity runs from 2650 to 2700, depending on the bullet. As a general load I use the 160 Sierra GameKing, which works great for sighting-in and deer-sized game. All the other loads shoot close enough to the Sierra so that if I decide to hunt wildebeest or moose or whatever, I can just put some rounds loaded with 156 Norma Oryxes or 160 North Forks in the rifle and go hunting.
So far this has worked fine. I haven't shot anything at 400 yards with the rifle, but have killed a couple of animals at 375 or so (with the Sierras). Have also taken wildebeest and moose with stouter bullets.
Nosler lists 46.0 grains IMR4350 as maximum with 160-grain bullets in their manual, and H4350 is generally slightly slower. I have not had any of my loads pressure-tested, but none show the slightest sign of high pressure, even in warm weather, and brass life is great. So I assume the pressures are OK in my rifle.
But maybe next year I'll go on a 120 or 150 or 175 kick. Who knows? John, FWIW - When I shot my first red stag with the 7x57, the 140 gn X bullet went through and dropped it on the spot. It immediately took me back to an article I read many years prior from J O'C when he shot a grizzly with a .30/06 and a 180gn Remington Bronze Point and recounted that he made up his mind right there, that if the 180 shot clear through grizzly, there was not point every going up in bullet weight. Now these days we know that bullet construction is a far greater influence on penetration than bullet weight, but I came to the same conclusion with 140's in the 7x57 case after getting the same results on wild horses, even with lengthwise shots. I do load heavier bullets and have killed smaller game that the aforementioned with those heavier bullets, but the reality is that little case is a dream to shoot and permits shot placement that permits effective kills out of proportion to the necessity, invented and perpetuated in the average rifleman's mind. Having said that, I load two standard weights these days, 140 and 175. The 175's are loaded "because". We know what that means. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Now look at what you guys started, there will be a run on 7x57s. I would take the leap but I already did it once, it was a dandy short action model 70 with a shilen barrel. wish I had it back!
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AGW:
What type of bullet was that 140 gr. bullet that dispatched that horse?
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I had to kill one of my horses last year,the neighbor bought a mustang stud at an auction and it got in my pasture and broke one of my gelding's legs.
I killed him with what I had in the truck,which happened to feature a 140 grain bullet out of a 280. The balistic silvertip killed him like a lightning strike.
Britt
Last edited by ruraldoc; 12/19/07.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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I had read recently in one of Mule Deers articles (It might be 2-3 months or 2-3 years old - I keep them and re-read them) about his preference for the 160 grains in the 7x75(275 Rigby)so I had planned on working up a load.
John - thanks for the starting point for the load. Would you say this would be OK for an old Model 98 Peruvian Mauser? Or do I need to watch pressures?
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Just for kicks if a guy was buying a new gun in 7mm-08 or 7X57 which would you recommend?
It isn't energy that kills. It's holes!
Dogzapper
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, a tax is a fine for doing well
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I have used a lot of the 160 partitions in the 7x57 at 2750 fps or so for many, many years on all sorts of big game up to elk-kudu size with perfect results. This caliber is the low-recoil king of killing. I have one getting a new tube screwed onto a Mauser action as we speak, hope I wear out some more 7mm barrels. If I were buying a new 7-08, I'd have to try a Ruger Hawkeye, I believe. 7x57 would be a No. 1-A.
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I inquired just this week to CZ about the chance that maybe some 7x57s were still available here in the states. All 15 that were left were sent to a dealer in Georgia, they are all gone. Guess I will have to look at a #1 unless Ruger chambers the Hawkeye in it next year.
"Give a lazy man the toughest job, and he will find the easiest way to do it"
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Sorry wasn't clear, I meant which cartridge?
It isn't energy that kills. It's holes!
Dogzapper
A fine is a tax for doing wrong, a tax is a fine for doing well
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FWIW;
My factory 7x57 chambered Husqvarna rifles really like 150 gr bullets. Either the Norma factory load or a handload that a friend of mine made up using the Nosler 150 gr. Partition that is a little warmer than the Norma.
I think that barrel twist is very important factor in the 7x57. The same Husqvarna rifle that shoots .75" 3 shot groups with the Norma factory load will keyhole a 175 gr. bullet.
Steve
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I would like to read what JB writes too. I have an intermediate length comercial Mauser action that is a .30-'06 just now, but I am about to convert it back to 7X57 (the cartridge it was designed for). If I had a short action, I would say make it a 7-08 (i.e. 7X51). Intermediate or standard length action I would choose the 7X57. Of course the 7X57 has it all over the 7-08 in terms of history and cachet.  jim
LCDR Jim Dodd, USN (Ret.)
"If you're too busy to hunt, you're too busy."
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Campfire Kahuna
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John,
Yeah, these days you don't need anything more than 140's in the 7x57, Along with the 140 TSX, Nosler will have a 140 E-Tip on the market soon, and there are dozens of other good ones as well.
But I had already gone through a 140-grain phase, and had a lot of newer bullets in the 160 range on the shelf that needed testing (156 Norma Oryx, 154 Hornady Interbond, 160 North Fork). Along with that, I like the way standard bullets work at 2700, and found that with my rifle sighted in with the Sierras, all the others would shoot close enough to work.
To everybody else,
I must emophasize that my 7x57 is on a strong, modern action, the "short" Montana 1999 action, which has a 3.1" magazine, just right for the 7x57. I certainly would not load it any hotter even so--and there is no reason, as the load used does the job. The load I am using is not a starting load, but a MAXIMUM.
I have already written many times about how I just don't bother with old Mauser military actions anymore. They are simply not as good as modern actions (either Mauser 98 or not) and the cost involved in making them into top-flight sporter actions is way too much. But if anybody is bound and determined to do so, I would take it to a real gunsmith to be checked out.
I sure hope Ruger brings the Hawkeye out in 7x57. Apparently they don't chamber it anymore in the 77 Mark II, which I regard as a very good rifle. I once owned one in 7x57 and it shot fine, and was about the right weight.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Ramblin_Razorback, You really hit a soft spot by inquiring about the 7x57. But you specifically asked for a response from Mule Deer, so I waited patiently before barging in with my uninvited $.02. Mule Deer has replied now - not once, but twice - so here I am.  I, too, like the 7x57 with 160 grain jacketed bullets. I have worked with many other calibers that perform as well and kick harder, but none perform better. Two bullets have performed admirably for me: Speer Hot-Cor spitzer and Speer Mag Tip. There really is no need to try other bullets, but I will anyway just for the experience (and in case I am missing something). These will eventually include the likes of 175 grain Hornadys and 140 grain TTSX. I currently own 3 rifles chambered in 7x57, all Rugers: One M77R (tang safety), one M77 MkII, and one #1A. These are all superbly accurate rifles. The M77 MkII is one of the smoothest, most reliable and well-balanced rifles I have owned. It is definitely a favorite. I really like the tang-safe M77R and thought it near the top choice in my modest battery UNTIL I got the MkII. I only wish they had the excellent Ruger open sights. The #1A is...uh...well, you just have to own one to understand, I guess, and even then it doesn't really make sense. Repeaters are more efficient hunting tools than single-shots, but there's just something about them. I stuff a couple more sniffs of H4350 into my 7x57s than Mule Deer. The tang-safe model will handle a bit heavier charge than the MkII, but I doubt the game will know the difference. If a guy can get 2650-2700 fips with a 160 grainer, like Mule Deer has said, then that guy is ready to kill a lot of game, and it won't rupture any blood vessels in his shoulder either (or detach any retinas). It will just drill a fair-sized wound channel deep into any animal, and if that wound is in the right place, the animal is quickly reduced to possession. -
Our God reigns.
Harrumph!!!
I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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I love 7X57 posts. We have 3 of the little darlings. One of them is in the running for the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever seen. reflex264
![[Linked Image]](http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/reflex264/Hunting/th_PICTURE3.jpg) .264 barrel current number of shots:2122
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I too love the 7x57. I'm currently on Lee Helgeland's waiting list for a custom G33/40. Waiting (somewhat) patiently.
“Factio democratica delenda est"
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My new custom M70 in 7X57 shipped today!! I can't wait to get it!
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