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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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The players leg didn't get that high accidentally. He put it there and he moved it in the direction of the other player on purpose. Did he intend to kill him? I seriously doubt it. Was he aware that doing that could seriously injure another player? He damn well should have been.
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Joined: Sep 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
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Can those who have played hockey at any level greater than pond please raise their hand? Hand raised. The guy was hip checked and his leg went up. Ever been hip checked? Yes. I figured you were one of probably about two; maybe three.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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Ever been hip checked? Hell, most of these guys probably never went to a game. Exactly. What does a hip check have to do with this situation. lol
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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Yes I do agree my intention was to explain what I saw. Do I think he meant to kill him? I do not. Intent to kill isn't the required intent for second degree murder. If I hit you over the head with a baseball bat, but only intended to make an impression on you about what we were arguing about, that's intent enough, since one is held to the reasonable person standard in this regard. A reasonable person knows that a baseball bat to the head is potentially lethal, and a reasonable person knows that a kick to the head/neck area, while wearing skates, is potentially lethal. That's intent enough for second degree murder. The video leaves no room for reasonable doubt as to whether he intended to strike the victim in the head/neck region with his skates. Doesn't matter if he didn't mean to kill him, but only intended to prevent him from accomplishing his objective in the game. He intended to strike him with the skates. I guess we shall see eh?
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2011
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Yes I do agree my intention was to explain what I saw. Do I think he meant to kill him? I do not. Intent to kill isn't the required intent for second degree murder. If I hit you over the head with a baseball bat, but only intended to make an impression on you about what we were arguing about, that's intent enough, since one is held to the reasonable person standard in this regard. A reasonable person knows that a baseball bat to the head is potentially lethal, and a reasonable person knows that a kick to the head/neck area, while wearing skates, is potentially lethal. That's intent enough for second degree murder. The video leaves no room for reasonable doubt as to whether he intended to strike the victim in the head/neck region with his skates. Doesn't matter if he didn't mean to kill him, but only intended to prevent him from accomplishing his objective in the game. He intended to strike him with the skate, and that's all that's required. That explanation makes 'intent' more clear, thanks for laying it out. Seems to me that something was stated about this instigator being black, that would explain several journalistic outlets I viewed completely downplaying this to a 'collision between players' or accident silliness. Had initially wondered why these things were being said, not so much now.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 790
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
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Yes I do agree my intention was to explain what I saw. Do I think he meant to kill him? I do not. Intent to kill isn't the required intent for second degree murder. If I hit you over the head with a baseball bat, but only intended to make an impression on you about what we were arguing about, that's intent enough, since one is held to the reasonable person standard in this regard. A reasonable person knows that a baseball bat to the head is potentially lethal, and a reasonable person knows that a kick to the head/neck area, while wearing skates, is potentially lethal. That's intent enough for second degree murder. The video leaves no room for reasonable doubt as to whether he intended to strike the victim in the head/neck region with his skates. Doesn't matter if he didn't mean to kill him, but only intended to prevent him from accomplishing his objective in the game. He intended to strike him with the skate, and that's all that's required. That explanation makes 'intent' more clear, thanks for laying it out. Seem to me that something was stated about this instigator being black, that would explain several journalistic outlets I viewed completely downplaying this to a 'collision between players' or accident silliness. Had initially wondered why these things were being said, not so much now. As I mentioned this act was so careless and dangerous that charges in my opinion should be filed. TRH I agree with your statement. Although I will say that my legal knowledge is limited/involuntary manslaughter ?
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Joined: Nov 2018
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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involuntary manslaughter ? Intent to do serious bodily injury is sufficient intent for a second degree murder charge. That level of intent is pretty clear from the video.
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Joined: May 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2010
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Ever been hip checked? Hell, most of these guys probably never went to a game. No one in MN plays or has played hockey.
I am always looking for factory wood stocks!
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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involuntary manslaughter ? Intent to do serious bodily injury is sufficient intent for a second degree murder charge. That level of intent is pretty clear from the video. Thanks
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
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This is everything that needs to be said. It was an intentional kick to the face area, and it resulted in the death of a white guy. The offending player was black and will get maybe a hand slap. T-zone is "dead" wrong.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
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Can those who have played hockey at any level greater than pond please raise their hand? Hand raised. The guy was hip checked and his leg went up. Ever been hip checked? That's what I thought at first but I don't believe there was any contact at all with the first player (who I thought might have been offside). A hip check would have been the right move for that player, to protect his team mate with the puck, but he was past the point of being able to make contact. I have delivered and received hip checks. Not at this level and sixty years ago, mind you! In slo-mo, it looks as if Petgrave may have made contact with the offside player (I think the linesman blew the call) with his elbow, but there was no hip check. I still think he threw the kick because he had missed the block and Johnson was getting past him with the puck. GD.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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There was no hip check.
That is a weird assertion.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,104 Likes: 6 |
Ever been hip checked? Hell, most of these guys probably never went to a game. No one in MN plays or has played hockey. Are most of the posters here from MN?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745 |
Could be. It happened once before. Doubtful though.
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Clint Malarchuck and Richard Zednik both had their throats cut, Clint never played again, Richard did I think, but was downhill after that. There has also been a number of Achilles tendons and ankles cut, it is just a matter of time until someone creates better safety equipment for the entire body to prevent cuts anywhere on the body. The playoffs last year had the one guy fall (pushed) onto a skate, cutting his face near his eye.
As an aside, with 90+ mph shots, somebody is gonna get a puck in the head/throat area that can easily prove fatal, just a matter of time.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,298 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hockey players should be very good at controlling where their feet go in such circumstances. If they could they would have all their teeth....
Last edited by Muffin; 11/01/23.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
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Evey check and hit in Hockey is intentional.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,773 Likes: 21 |
Evey check and hit in Hockey is intentional. Those are expected, though, as part of the game.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551 |
I’ve played the game since i was a wee lad into my late 20’s. I’ve coached and now I’m a happy spectator. I have never seen anything like this . I think that dirtbag intentionally kicked him. I don’t believe he tried to kill him; it was a dirty play from a goon. The clown should absolutely be prosecuted for his recklessness and disregard
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis
I Burn While I See
Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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