Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Question about Keith bullets

I’m needing to buy some more .44 bullets. Montana bulletworks is kind of pricey but seem to have good products. I want these for bear defense -in the last month two sets of grizzly tracks have been found nearby where I commonly walk my dogs. I probably won’t ever hunt with them, but maybe.

Are Keith style bullets still considered the best over wider meplate bullets? These two have the same cost. Which one would you pick?

I would choose the bullet on the left. The wide meplat produces a larger wound channel

Many years ago I remember seeing some information on LBT bullet offerings and there was a particular design that suggested that certain firearm characteristics were essential for good performance. Don't ask me for details because for the life of me I cannot recall any of it. I'd also be inclined to choose the LBT design and especially if I hunted in grizzly country, but I would suggest some attentive reading before making the selection.

WFN, FOR .44 mag I like them around 270-300gr. Keith is a good bullet, a proper WFN is a better bullet.

I've been using the 260gr WFNGC from Mt Bul Wrks for a decade or so. Still have a little less than half my original box of 500. Never shot anything with it but have carried it extensively here in SW MT. Here are a couple of targets shot on different days at 50 yrds rested over my range bag from a 2.75" M69. The load chronoed a little over 1,100 fps from the short gun and close to 1,200 from 4.25" M69.
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One got away from me on the bottom target. The short barrel and red insert may have been responsible for the vertical strining.
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FWIW,

Paul

Interesting Paul, these are going to be shot from a 4.25" model 69 with a load similar to yours.

I think I remember a while back jwp saying that the meplat of a bullet can be too wide, but don't remember why. Are you seeing this jwp? Am I remembering that right?

Having used both design extensively, these days, I would be running the LBT type design on the left. It will hit hard and with the gas check can be run at pretty much any speed without gas cutting the bullet base or leading. It could run in a lever action rifle too.

The WFN does HIT hard and cuts a larger whole in game. Granted, I haven’t tried it on bears, but the deer and pigs down here in GA don’t like them at all.

I use one I cast myself (.432” 255 gr. Plain Base WFN) in a 4” 629 44 Mag running an honest 1075-1100. They are controllable that way, less blast, and frankly seem to impact game exactly the same as when I ran them at 1300 fps from a Super Blackhawk in the past.

I can’t see how you would be sorry with the WFN.

Mark in GA

One other thing with my loads is to reach these speeds with that weight cast bullet you can easily reach the goal loading a mid-speed burning powder. Plenty like Unique, HS-6, Power Pistol, Accurate #5, True Blue, etc will do this easily and with much less blast/noise than the slower powders like 2400, H110, 296, Accurate #9 etc. It’s still loud with the mid-speed powders if you have to shoot it w/o ear protection in the field, but considerably better than the ear ringing the slow powders give you.

Mark in GA

+1


For shooting very long range 200 to 800 yards the Keith will have the better accuracy

WFN all the way! I don't understand why, but WFN penetrate better than other designs.
I think 260gr is about perfect.
However, nobody except hand casters produce WFN - I don't know why.
Missouri Bullet Company makes a 300gr that they call a WFN, but it really isn't. It does have a really wide meplat (.360"), and it slaps a big hole in things, but it is borderline too long for M69 cylinders unless you work some tricks. But it is cheap.

Classic!

I never had accuracy problems with a proper Keith bullet, they make superb target bullets. I like straight wheel weights with my Lyman 429421 and a mild charge of Unique when punching paper. Mild or wild, Keith's are very accurate. I have zero complaints for accuracy with LBT's, but I cant recall shooting any beyond 100 yards. For hunting with a cast bullet, you just cant beat the WFN. If I were to only own one .44 bullet mold it would be a 260gr WFN (Which always give me bullets around 271gr with my alloys). From jack rabbits to moose, that bullet will get it done.

Probably the only reason to use a Keith bullet these days is if you're using a very mild load. Some guns need the WFN's to be pushed a little faster to be accurate...WFN's don't always shoot well at 44 special velocities, basically.

But as mentioned above the Keith's shoot well at all speeds.

To echo what Mark in Ga said:

I run 250gr WFN's and LFN's over 11gr of N350 in my M69 (or 10.5gr of Unique but that leads much worse). Fairly quiet, moderate recoil, around 1075 fps.

It's pleasant to shoot compared to case full of magnum powder.

They don't work well unless full diameter at the front band and sized to the throat of the arm in question.

You guys do realize the mold makers have Keith bullets with WFN sized meplats?

The Keith design was originally for long range shooting AND better performance on game.
It does both very well and also doesn't exhibit inaccuracy of some WFN designs when one doesn't need 100% velocity.

Duh.
Have you measured some and found them undersized at the front band?

There's more to an LBT WFN than the size of the meplat.

An SWC with a huge meplat is really an Ogive Wadcutter.

I don't buy bullets...

LBT made the Ogival Wadcutter.

I have several molds..

Most commercial LBT style bullets have a narrow front band, sometimes a ledge, and aren't nominally close to throat size at the very front of the bullet. They do this so they fit a wide range of guns.

LBT molds will have the front band that casts the largest portion of the bullet at the end of the ogive for a tight fit, despite springback or an overly hot mold.