Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 10,000 Swedish Moose died to teach us this lesson.

The post "Improving gun magazines" got me to thinking. In a susequent post I made reference to old dog eared magazines that kept getting pulled out to re-read articles that taught us something.

I guess my favourite articles are ones that go against popular opinions of the day to confirm something that we ourselves believe in.

The prime example of such an article was one showing the breakdown of a Swedish study involving more than 10,000 moose kills, and how various calibers performed in regards to killing these moose. In it, it was shown there wasn't a heck of lot of difference between cartridges as dissimilar as the 6.5 X 55, the 30-06, the big high speed magnums and even the big bores from .375 H&H and the .458 Winchester magnum - in regards to how far the average moose ran - after being shot.

In short - regardless of cartridge or caliber - it didn't matter much what the moose was shot with - if it was well hit - it was going to fall, sooner - rather than later.

I loved that article! It confirmed what I believe. Since shooting a lot more game with mild cartridges like 7mm-08's and 30-06's during the last decade or so, I can't say I'm seeing any difference on game, from when I was shooting them with big wildcats and big magnums. But, I sure can notice the difference in the ease of shooting these smaller milder cartridges.

But - do you think I can find this article?

Not for the life of me, can I find this information now.

I know the results were printed on this forum, and I know the study was written up in either "Rifle" or "Handloader" magazine.

I'd be very thankful to anyone who could tell me which edition of which magazine, or where on this forum this data was reported.

Thanks in advance...

I remember reading that myself. Was'nt the aricle in outdoor life?

I've seen it multiple places, I think it was in one of Dave Scovill's columns a few years back.

I have read that article as well. Swedish , harvest moose as much as hunt them. The harvest is more of a controlled activity. They have defined cut blocks, 3 and 4 generation cuts, the townspeople go out put shooter,s at strategic locations around the block, and others push through and what comes out is harvested. Distances are known much better and the shooter's have to pass a proficiency test on stationary and mobile targets. The likelyhood of hitting the kill zone with the 6.5 Bjorn are a lot better than some dude dressed like a cabella model that shoots his ultra a couple times a year. These people know what they are doing and testing proves that fact.

Can't help you with the print version, but here's what Mule Deer posted here and I reformatted for easier viewing:

Thank you Jaywalker!

Now, if someone will find what issue of what magazine the full report was written up in - I'll be totally happy!

Merry Christmas to all of you, and may the coming year be a good one for all of you and all of your loved ones.

I think it is very interesting to see the results of the 6.5 vs the 30-06. I wonder if the lighter recoil of the 6.5 has anything to do with the slightly shorter travel distance of the moose? Hmmm, kinda why I use the 30-06 as my primary elk rifle, and, now a 7X57 for the same, and, anything else! grin

Huntr,

I think you've got it!

The accuracy most people can attain in the field, using mild, easy-to-shoot, cartridges, seems to more than makes up for any ballistic advantage provided by shooting bullets that might be 10% faster or so from the same caliber, or by making a hole a few 1/100ths of an inch - or even a few 10ths of an inch, bigger around - in the animal that is shot.

Everyone would like to think that recoil, doesn't bother them - but the facts of this study, seem to suggest otherwise.

At least that's my own take on it, and it has been my own experience too.

Since switching to the milder "classic" cartridges, and away from the "big-boomers" - I don't think a single animal I've shot has noticed the difference.

But, I have.

And, I won't go back.

My mindset is also transitioning from bigger-is-better to not-so-big-is-better. All it took was years of patience from the Hunting Gods (and shoulder surgery) for me to discover the 260 Remington.

I'm curious whether the study was just on Swedish moose or moose anywhere. The reason I ask is because if that's just a study of moose in Sweden, I'm really surprised that there's that many shooting the 30-06 there. Had no idea that cartridge was as popular in the Scandis as it is here.

The 30-06 is still the benchmark for big game rifles everywhere. Why shouldn't it be?

I remember reading about that study some years ago, and being pretty impressed by the 'numbers' put up by the 30-06 as well as the 6.5X55.

Very interesting reading, for sure.

It's the second most popular cartridge for moose in Sweden, 6.5x55 being the most popular and mostly due to the quantity of old military Swedish Mausers. HTH.

( FYI -- in Finland .308 is by far the most popular cartridge on moose )

It's also the cheapest which is probably not entered into your calculations.
Same reason more game was taken by 30-30 prior to 1940. They were the most plentiful and cheapest gun on the market.

Canuck,

I beg to differ with your logic..

That Swedish Moose survey reported ALL behavior on Moose regardless of the caliber- by your reasoning, the more popular the caliber the more of a chance it would had to BOTH succeed AND fail.

The fact that rounds like the 6.5 Swede or the 30-06 did so well on the Moose is even more impressive when you see how many more chances they had to fail compared to more powerful rounds..

Like Jack O'Connor found out a long time ago , when it comes to moose, if you hit 'em right with enough bullet, it takes them a while to realize they are dead. If you hit them with a 150 gr .270 slug or 300gr .375 H&H, they are still most likely to travel a ways before falling. From what I have seen,Elk are the same way.

That don't make sense. Your telling me that hitting game with 6000 ft/lbs is the same as hitting it with 2700 ft/lbs.
I've seen a fella pump 5 rounds from a 270 into a moose, there was blood spurting everywhere and this thing just kept on going. I've never seen a single moose that I've shot with my 378 go more than 15 feet, and believe me I've shot alot of them over 30 years worth.

That chart is a fine measure of Swedish stupidity.
Last 2002 compiled statistics in Canada show that 11,449 deer,elk,moose,bears were struck on Alberta highways
Ford kills------
Chevrolet kills-
Dodge kills-----
16 wheeler kills-
I'll let you fill in the blanks but I'll bet you that there are more kills for Dodge,Ford,Chevrolet than 16 wheelers. Why because there are less of them on the road. Do I have to draw a picture to accompany the allegory? And yes smaller vehicles are cheaper than 16 wheelers.

You're not understanding the table--it's about distance traveled--not how many are killed with each cartridge. Sample size has very little to do with it (particularly if its been statisically tested for probability). Doesn't matter if cartridge A shot 200 moose or cartridge B shot 2000 moose. If the statistical average for both is similar, sample size doesn't mean much.

I suspect there is virtually no statistically significant difference in distance travel after the shot between any of the cartridges.

Now, if all the shots taken were Portuguese Brain shots, then the the more "powerful" cartridges would probably demonstrate much better results.


Casey

That is not what the table says. Methinks you owe us Swedes a bit of an apology for your comments on Swedish stupidity -- clearly you are criticizing something you have not read.

John (who can read Swedish, and has the complete original report)

Am I looking at a different chart.
The one I'm looking at states that the 30-06 (which is more plentiful and cheaper) had shot 2,829 moose and they travelled 47 feet after the first shot.
The 300 mag (less plentiful and more expensive)shot 27 moose and they travelled 16 feet after being shot.
I don't have to be an Einstein to figure out that the 300 mag is more deadly.