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15 years later this is an even more impressive stable of .270s

Wow.

Don’t ever let anyone bully you about a big ice rock or couple drops of water in your Scotch or bourbon.

There are broken molecular bonds from the manufacturing process that the small amount of H2O makes whole.


Interesting article here:

https://www.tastingtable.com/1202510/what-really-happens-when-you-dilute-whiskey-with-water/

I've been loading 150g Partitions in my late 60s vintage BDL (22" barrel) to just over 3000 fps for 40 years, gave it to my younges son 10 years ago. I use Rem brass fire formed (i only neck size), CCI 250 primers and H4831 (lots of it) No pressure signs, load the cases 10 times then toss them.

My old school 270 loads consisted of IMR 4831 & H4831.... my new school 270 loads are all RL-26

Kinda off topic but I once purchased some old-school .270 Win ammo, loaded by JOC himself! This was late 70s, from a sporting goods store in Lewiston ID that had bought a bunch of stuff from his estate. I gave the .270 to a friend of mine who had one, but he never shot it. It had the old-style Nosler Partition bullets with the groove in them. I also bought a couple boxes of 7x57 handloads. One of those had the name Bradford written on the inner box in pencil. W-W brass. Bradford was his son. They had quite a few other items from his estate including as I recall some rifles. I was a poor college student then and could only afford the handloads. The estate also donated a bunch of his big game mounts to the University of Idaho. I saw that stuff in a storage room; they had not taken the time to put it on proper display yet. I wonder if the U of I still has those.

Shot a buck yesterday with a 130 Interlock fueled by 54 grains of R17. 50 yard dash looked like someone took a paint brush dipped in a 5 gallon bucket.

There is an actual small museum full of mounts, book, and other historical JOC stuff. Stopped in when I was on a sturgeon fishing trip in Hells Canyon. It was pretty cool.

https://jack-oconnor.org/

Good thread

Where was the 140-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet being Townsend Whelen's favorite mentioned?


From "An Introduction to Reloading Part V: Loads" by Townsend Whelen (The American Rifleman, 1936):

.270 W.C.F.: Winchester has standard-
ized their factory load with 139-grain bul-
let to give M.V. 3160 f.-s. Other com-
panies load to about 100 f.-s. lower veloc-
ity. My experience has been that hand-
loaders cannot approach close to these
velocities without decidedly running into
high and dangerous pressures. Due to the
danger of running into high pressures with
this cartridge I would caution against using
any case that has ever been fired with a
mercuric primer. Use the F.A. No. 70,
Remington No. 8 1/2, or Winchester No. 115
primers. My best loads have been the 139-
grain Winchester or Western Tool and
Copper Works bullets with 53 grains of
du Pont No. 15 1/2 powder, which gives
M.V. of about 3,000 f.-s.; and the 145-
grain W. T. and C. bullet or the 150-grain
Western soft-point bullet, with 48 grains
of du Pont No. 15 1/2 powder, giving about
2700 f.-s. M.V. These seem to be the
maximum safe charges, because increasing
either by only one-half grain begins to
show clear indication of high pressure. I
tried du Pont No. 17 1/2 powder, but it did
not give nearly as good accuracy, and I do
not believe it gave such high velocity in
safe charges. Both of the above loads are
very accurate, practically all groups going
under 2 inches at 100 yards, with many as
small as 1 3/4 inches. I think that probably
the new du Pont No. 4064 powder will
prove even better than No. 15 1/2, but I do
not know of its having been tried as yet.
In any event, start low with any new pow-
der in this cartridge, and work up a half-
grain at a time.

[/quote] There is an actual small museum full of mounts, book, and other historical JOC stuff. Stopped in when I was on a sturgeon fishing trip in Hells Canyon. It was pretty cool.

https://jack-oconnor.org/[/quote]

I first visited the museum in 2007, as an off-shoot of a tour of the Speer/CCI factory. It's well worth visiting, but the Jack O'Connor Hunting Heritage and Education Center also holds an annual fund-raiser weekend each year, usually in May or June. It includes a small gun show, which usually includes some of Jack's (and his wife Eleanor's) rifles not in the museum, thanks to exhibitors who were his friends. His son Brad and his wife Anne also usually attend.

Unfortunately, this year we were again invited but due to other reasons, at the last minute couldn't make it. But it's well worth attending, especially during the gun show.

Thanks for that information. In Mister Rifleman (published around 1965 after his death in 1961) chapter titled "Is There An All-Round Hunting Rifle" under the heading The .270 Winchester on page 247 he discusses the 140 grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet. Would you happen to know the barrel length of his .270 to get 3000 fps (I assume 24")?

55gr/H4350, Hdy Interloks in my std ‘55 M70 gives 3000fps, bugholes (over book but zero pressure signs)

That explains why I prefer a double JW Black and a single cube of ice

Those data were probably for a 24" barrel, like Whelen's Model 54.


I asked about the 140-grain bullets because the book states, "I got slightly better accuracy with the 140-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet, and that is the bullet I have used for all the big game I have shot with it. That bullet is no longer made."

However, in "Hunting Tips and Tales" by Colonel Townsend Whelen (The American Rifleman, August 1941) it states:

My favorite big-game rifle for the past fifteen years has been a .270 Winchester Model 54, fitted with a 2 1/4-power Zeiss Zielklein scope with Griffin & Howe mount. Five years ago I had the bolt handle turned down, mount lowered, and a side safety fitted, thus practically turning it into a Model 70. I also had John Hutton restock it with a very tight bedding and high Monte Carlo comb. It is a very fine rifle under practically any conditions. I have shot only one moose and two deer with it, all at close range, and all with one shot each. At boulders in my pasture at unknown distances I find I can make surer hits at longer ranges than with any other rifle I own. If I were off to the wilderness tomorrow I would take this rifle with me. It does its best work with a hand load consisting of the 130-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet and 49 grains of duPont No. 4320 powder. In factory ammunition I have found the Winchester cartridge loaded with 130-grain pointed expanding bullet to be the best.

Given the discrepancy could the "140" possibly be a typo?


Western Tool & Copper Works bullets in 100, 130, 145-grain weights are mentioned in the Field and Stream article below, but not 140 (have seen 95-grain mentioned elsewhere).

https://archive.org/details/sim_field-stream_1927-12_32_8/page/50/mode/2up

The "Winchester has standardized their factory load with 139-grain bullet to give M.V. 3160 f.-s." doesn't seem right. Seems it would be a 130-grain bullet at 3160?



"As a propellant Winchester uses 55.5 grains DuPont I. M.R. powder No.15 1/2. The bullet weight is 130 grains. Muzzle velocity 3160f.s."

https://archive.org/details/sim_field-stream_1927-12_32_8/page/52/mode/2up

55 grains of IMR 4350 and a 130 Partition shoots really well in the three 270’s I own.

Yep, that's another good one--as I believe was mentioned by me way back when this thread started.

In the NULA .270 Eileen hunted with for around a decade, the primary load was 55.0 IMR4350 and the 130-grain Nosler Partition. It grouped OK, under 2"--at 300 yards when she shot it to confirm the POI at that range....

“The .270 Can Do Great Things” by Jack O'Connor

"Further to complicate the picture, bullets weighing 100, 120, 140, and 160 grains were available
from Fred Barnes before the war, and bullets weighing 95, 100, 130, and 150 grains were
manufactured by the Western Tool & Copper Works."

https://jack-oconnor.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/JackOConnor-2012-1stQtr-newsletter.pdf

The "140 grain" would not be a typo. I say this because I remember he also wrote something to the effect that the 140 had better sectional density and thus better penetration than the 130 and that is why he preferred the 140 and later the 150 over the 130. I will try to find where he wrote that in the next few days.

Note also that "139" is probably a mistake. The velocities correspond with 130 grain advertised velocities and also 3000 fps corresponds with 140 grain velocities. With the "139" someone was probably thinking of the 139 grain 7mm bullet.