This is my DIY on the cheap annealing machine. With the heat source I use and 750 tempilac, the necks/shoulders are only exposed to the heat for 5 or 6 seconds. No guessing, just consistency. An extra 4 seconds would likely ruin my brass.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
I need that in my loading procedure! I saw where there was a company that builds one really similar, can't recall the name?
HeayBarrel
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
Just use a deep well socket and drill with a Propane torch and don't waste your money on that unit unless you are gonna do alot of brass. Annealing isn't as difficult as some think it is.
A slow to moderate spin with a medium flame will be plenty. Stay away from the flame in the tip of the torch and just use the outer portion of the flame, the tip of that flame is good. A light blue tint just below the shoulder is good. Generally under 10 seconds will do it, a one one thousands count is best.
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If you've got your necks too soft, and have excessive neck tension, you WILL push things out of whack seating a bullet.
My neck tension, .002 on pump rifles and .001 on my bolt rifles. Its fine with how I anneal, and bullet concentricity under .001 of an inch consistently and accuracy under a half inch with my bolt rifles. Head expansion is .0015 after firing, with no indications of over annealing there either.
I need that in my loading procedure! I saw where there was a company that builds one really similar, can't recall the name?
HeayBarrel
Cost me $75 worth of mechanical and electrical parts back in 2015. All found on Amazon and Ebay. I made my own cabinet out of an old scrap aluminum road sign. Look up Elfster on the YouTube. He can guide you through a parts list and build.
The nice thing about having a "machine" is I can do as few, or as many as I want/need, and have the same result from case to case, loading to loading, season to season. Dependable consistency.
I couldn't justify a commercial made machine despite having a large volume of match brass to do every month, but I could justify $75 dollars and a Sunday afternoon putting it together.
Pretty sure that if you switch over to using some sort of machine you'll see the fallacy in other methods that aren't governed by mechanical advantage. I used the socket/drill myself for a couple decades until I realized I needed more consistency in what I was doing. Holding tolerances costs money and effort.
I have brass that I've lost count how many reloads are on them, well over a dozen, annealing every firing. I'd say just THAT is worth the $75 and a Sunday afternoon. Not to mention holding the set back and neck tension tolerances I go by for my precision stuff.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
Up-date on what is going on for those that might be interested.
Got a new sizing die, a Redding neck die. It is resizing to .002 or less.
When I seat a bullet in the brass I have not yet shot but formed I get concentricity issues as bad as .019 out, but the neck is still withing .002 to .004.
When I seat a bullet with one time fired in my gun it stays .006 to .004.
I assume that maybe I softened the brass to much during my annealing process. I went a little longer because I knew that I was going to be moving a good bit going from 264WM to 257WM.
Waiting on my new seating die to see if it might be my RCBS seater.
HeavyBarrel
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
Up-date on what is going on for those that might be interested.
Got a new sizing die, a Redding neck die. It is resizing to .002 or less.
When I seat a bullet in the brass I have not yet shot but formed I get concentricity issues as bad as .019 out, but the neck is still withing .002 to .004.
When I seat a bullet with one time fired in my gun it stays .006 to .004.
I assume that maybe I softened the brass to much during my annealing process. I went a little longer because I knew that I was going to be moving a good bit going from 264WM to 257WM.
Waiting on my new seating die to see if it might be my RCBS seater.
HeavyBarrel
Not sure how you are chamfering the case mouths, but I have found a VLD type chamfer tool very helpful for seating some bullets straight.
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
Yes I am thinking that is likely. I should be getting new seating die tomorrow, if I do I can rule that out. Only thing that makes me think die issue is thar even on the loaded rounds with .019 run-out the necks are still reading fairly concentric? But the brass that has been fired in my rifle seems to not get extreme run-out, like maybe they have been work hardened slightly, reaffirming that they were annealed to much.
HeavyBarrel
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
I don't know for sure but if I can find new 257wm brass I might give up on the converted brass.
HeavyBarrel
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
Yes I am thinking that is likely. I should be getting new seating die tomorrow, if I do I can rule that out. Only thing that makes me think die issue is thar even on the loaded rounds with .019 run-out the necks are still reading fairly concentric? But the brass that has been fired in my rifle seems to not get extreme run-out, like maybe they have been work hardened slightly, reaffirming that they were annealed to much
HeavyBarrel
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.019 run-out the necks are still reading fairly concentric?
So what's good concentricity to you then ? LOL
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the brass that has been fired in my rifle seems to not get extreme run-out
of course it not gonna be out that much, it's formed to the chamber
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maybe they have been work hardened slightly, reaffirming that they were annealed to much
Annealing produced more consistent shoulder bump and neck sizing. Can you post a pic of a newly annealed case ?
He had the same issue before he annealed Jordan. The RCBS seater and stem sucks.
From the OPs first post on this thread.
Originally Posted by HeavyBarrel
Unable to source brass at a reasonable price I decided to make it out of once fired 264 Win Mag brass. Seemed an easy step as I annealed and ran the 264 through the 257 RCBS resizing die and brass looked great.
Right up until post # 18924152 it was assumed BY ALL that the necks were NOT over-annealed. You will induce TIR even with the BEST seater die if the necks are too soft. It's getting figured out and not with your help. You gave your last ditch effort, remember?
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
Up-date on what is going on for those that might be interested.
Got a new sizing die, a Redding neck die. It is resizing to .002 or less.
When I seat a bullet in the brass I have not yet shot but formed I get concentricity issues as bad as .019 out, but the neck is still withing .002 to .004.
When I seat a bullet with one time fired in my gun it stays .006 to .004.
I assume that maybe I softened the brass to much during my annealing process. I went a little longer because I knew that I was going to be moving a good bit going from 264WM to 257WM.
Waiting on my new seating die to see if it might be my RCBS seater.
HeavyBarrel
Not sure how you are chamfering the case mouths, but I have found a VLD type chamfer tool very helpful for seating some bullets straight.
Watched Eric Cortina YouTube show earlier where he purposely over annealed some brass. He mentioned something about running the over annealed brass back through a full length die a few times to work harden it. Curious if anybody has done this with a positive outcome?
HeavyBarrel
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
Don't know exactly what he meant about work hardening after annealing, but I'll say this..... he didn't have to mention running it a few times to harden the brass. You want to anneal every firing to avoid work hardening. Work hardening prevent consistent sizing. Anneal your brass like I told you and size. As long as you have consistent sized shoulders bumped back and consistent neck tension and concentric necks, then that's it.
I have over softened some brass for me 35 Whelen and yes I did repeatedly size it in my fl die to work harden it. Was successful as the shoulders stopped collapsing upon bullet seating. F01
it's hard to over anneal. If you just rotate the brass at the tip of the secondary flame not the inner flame of a medium flame, and watch under a low light for the light blue hue just beneath the shoulder and stop there.
" A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government" G. Washington
