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Originally Posted by Ringman
They are guessing how much was there in order to determine the dates. Dating has nothing to do with how it is used in medicine.
If these radioactive isotopes half-lives are known, and they definitely are, and these discoveries and technologies are used every single day in this country to save lives and prolong lives and make peoples lives better, then their accuracy…all the way around (including dating)…is accurate…!

God forbid that you (or someone you care about) get cancer. But if that happened, you’d likely lean into this science for your health to hopefully prolong your life, make your life better, and maybe save your life.


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Ringman, This is going to be akin to pissing in the wind, but, read something that challenges your biases.

All sorts of radio active isotopes and their decay elements are used in dating. And carbon 14 is used to date things up to 60K years. The half life to 6000 years.

Geologic Age: Using Radioactive Decay to Determine Geologic Age

Quote
The full text the USGS publication titled, Geological Time is available online.

At the close of the 18th century, the haze of fantasy and mysticism that tended to obscure the true nature of the Earth was being swept away. Careful studies by scientists showed that rocks had diverse origins. Some rock layers, containing clearly identifiable fossil remains of fish and other forms of aquatic animal and plant life, originally formed in the ocean. Other layers, consisting of sand grains winnowed clean by the pounding surf, obviously formed as beach deposits that marked the shorelines of ancient seas. Certain layers are in the form of sand bars and gravel banks -- rock debris spread over the land by streams. Some rocks were once lava flows or beds of cinders and ash thrown out of ancient volcanoes; others are portions of large masses of once-molten rock that cooled very slowly far beneath the Earth's surface. Other rocks were so transformed by heat and pressure during the heaving and buckling of the Earth's crust in periods of mountain building that their original features were obliterated.

From the results of studies on the origins of the various kinds of rocks (petrology), coupled with studies of rock layering (stratigraphy) and the evolution of life (paleontology), today geologists reconstruct the sequence of events that has shaped the Earth's surface. Their studies show, for example, that during a particular episode the land surface was raised in one part of the world to form high plateaus and mountain ranges. After the uplift of the land, the forces of erosion attacked the highlands and the eroded rock debris was transported and redeposited in the lowlands. During the same interval of time in another part of the world, the land surface subsided and was covered by the seas. With the sinking of the land surface, sediments were deposited on the ocean floor. The evidence of the pre-existence of ancient mountain ranges lies in the nature of the eroded rock debris, and the evidence of the seas' former presence is, in part, the fossil forms of marine life that accumulated with the bottom sediments.

Such recurring events as mountain building and sea encroachment, of which the rocks themselves are records, comprise units of geologic time even though the actual dates of the events are unknown. By comparison, the history of mankind is similarly organized into relative units of time. We speak of human events as occurring either B.C. or A.D. -- broad divisions of time. Shorter spans are measured by the dynasties of ancient Egypt or by the reigns of kings and queens in Europe. Geologists have done the same thing to geologic time by dividing the Earth's history into Eras -- broad spans based on the general character of life that existed during these times, and Periods -- shorter spans based partly on evidence of major disturbances of the Earth's crust.

The names used to designate the divisions of geologic time are a fascinating mixture of works that mark highlights in the historical development of geologic science over the past 200 years. Nearly every name signifies the acceptance of a new scientific concept -- a new rung in the ladder of geologic knowledge.

The discovery of the natural radioactive decay of uranium in 1896 by Henry Becquerel, the French physicist, opened new vistas in science. In 1905, the British physicist Lord Rutherford -- after defining the structure of the atom -- made the first clear suggestion for using radioactivity as a tool for measuring geologic time directly; shortly thereafter, in 1907, Professor B. B. Boltwood, radiochemist of Yale University, published a list of geologic ages based on radioactivity. Although Boltwood's ages have since been revised, they did show correctly that the duration of geologic time would be measured in terms of hundreds-to-thousands of millions of years.

The next 40 years was a period of expanding research on the nature and behavior of atoms, leading to the development of nuclear fission and fusion as energy sources. A byproduct of this atomic research has been the development and continuing refinement of the various methods and techniques used to measure the age of Earth materials. Precise dating has been accomplished since 1950.

A chemical element consists of atoms with a specific number of protons in their nuclei but different atomic weights owing to variations in the number of neutrons. Atoms of the same element with differing atomic weights are called isotopes. Radioactive decay is a spontaneous process in which an isotope (the parent) loses particles from its nucleus to form an isotope of a new element (the daughter). The rate of decay is conveniently expressed in terms of an isotope's half-life, or the time it takes for one-half of a particular radioactive isotope in a sample to decay. Most radioactive isotopes have rapid rates of decay (that is, short half-lives) and lose their radioactivity within a few days or years. Some isotopes, however, decay slowly, and several of these are used as geologic clocks. The parent isotopes and corresponding daughter products most commonly used to determine the ages of ancient rocks are listed below:


Parent Isotope Stable Daughter Product Currently Accepted Half-life Values
Uranium-238 Lead-206 4.5 billion years
Uranium-235 Lead-207 704 million years
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14.0 billion years
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 48.8 billion years
Potassium-40 Argon-40 1.25 billion years
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion years

The mathematical expression that relates radioactive decay to geologic time is called the age equation and is:

t=1/delta ln(1 + D/P)

where:

t is the age of a rock or mineral specimen,
D is the number of atoms of a daughter product today,
P is the number of atoms of the parent product today,
ln s the natural logarithm (logarithm to base e), and
delta is the appropriate decay constant.

(The decay constant for each parent isotope is related to its half-life, t 1/2, by the following expression:

t 1/2 = ln2/delta

Dating rocks by these radioactive timekeepers is simple in theory, but the laboratory procedures are complex. The numbers of parent and daughter isotopes in each specimen are determined by various kinds of analytical methods. The principal difficulty lies in measuring precisely very small amounts of isotopes.

Literally thousands of dated materials are now available for use to bracket the various episodes in the history of the Earth within specific time zones. Many points on the time scale are being revised, however, as the behavior of isotopes in the Earth's crust is more clearly understood. Thus the graphic illustration of the geologic time scale, showing both relative time and radiometric time, represents only the present state of knowledge. Certainly, revisions and modifications will be forthcoming as research continues to improve our knowledge of Earth history.

(Can someone quote me. He has me on ignore)

Last edited by Steve; 12/02/23.

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Originally Posted by WYcoyote
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Wow, I like that. There is a lot of data summed up there in an accessible format.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by kolofardos
Ringman, I would suggest your assiniine posts have discouraged many fence-siiters from Christianity by making them believe all ""Christians" are retards.

What do you base your statement on? Like you, your "fence-siiters" are making a choice now. God tells us those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be destroyed.
Who is "us"?

God has never spoken to me in the entirety of my life. Nor have any I have met, made the claim the God has spoken to him/her. I would look askance at any who did.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
The very text say everything was finished by the seventh day. How do you believe the words about water but not the words about days?
Could the seventh day be longer than 24 hours…? In Hebrews it says that God is still at rest ~ are we still in the seventh day right now…? If the seventh day is longer than you think it is, then maybe the other 6 days are longer than you think they are…!


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Originally Posted by Ringman
The very text say everything was finished by the seventh day. How do you be believe the words about water but not the words about days?
All his commands to nature were indeed finished, and to him that's the same thing as their being accomplished. You keep forgetting that God isn't trapped in time as we are (time was merely one of his creations). He gives a command and sees it accomplished instantly, even when, to our reckoning (being creatures trapped in time), it take millions of years.

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Originally Posted by Steve
Ringman, This is going to be akin to pissing in the wind, but, read something that challenges your biases.

All sorts of radio active isotopes and their decay elements are used in dating. And carbon 14 is used to date things up to 60K years. The half life to 6000 years.

Geologic Age: Using Radioactive Decay to Determine Geologic Age

Quote
The full text the USGS publication titled, Geological Time is available online.

At the close of the 18th century, the haze of fantasy and mysticism that tended to obscure the true nature of the Earth was being swept away. Careful studies by scientists showed that rocks had diverse origins. Some rock layers, containing clearly identifiable fossil remains of fish and other forms of aquatic animal and plant life, originally formed in the ocean. Other layers, consisting of sand grains winnowed clean by the pounding surf, obviously formed as beach deposits that marked the shorelines of ancient seas. Certain layers are in the form of sand bars and gravel banks -- rock debris spread over the land by streams. Some rocks were once lava flows or beds of cinders and ash thrown out of ancient volcanoes; others are portions of large masses of once-molten rock that cooled very slowly far beneath the Earth's surface. Other rocks were so transformed by heat and pressure during the heaving and buckling of the Earth's crust in periods of mountain building that their original features were obliterated.

From the results of studies on the origins of the various kinds of rocks (petrology), coupled with studies of rock layering (stratigraphy) and the evolution of life (paleontology), today geologists reconstruct the sequence of events that has shaped the Earth's surface. Their studies show, for example, that during a particular episode the land surface was raised in one part of the world to form high plateaus and mountain ranges. After the uplift of the land, the forces of erosion attacked the highlands and the eroded rock debris was transported and redeposited in the lowlands. During the same interval of time in another part of the world, the land surface subsided and was covered by the seas. With the sinking of the land surface, sediments were deposited on the ocean floor. The evidence of the pre-existence of ancient mountain ranges lies in the nature of the eroded rock debris, and the evidence of the seas' former presence is, in part, the fossil forms of marine life that accumulated with the bottom sediments.

Such recurring events as mountain building and sea encroachment, of which the rocks themselves are records, comprise units of geologic time even though the actual dates of the events are unknown. By comparison, the history of mankind is similarly organized into relative units of time. We speak of human events as occurring either B.C. or A.D. -- broad divisions of time. Shorter spans are measured by the dynasties of ancient Egypt or by the reigns of kings and queens in Europe. Geologists have done the same thing to geologic time by dividing the Earth's history into Eras -- broad spans based on the general character of life that existed during these times, and Periods -- shorter spans based partly on evidence of major disturbances of the Earth's crust.

The names used to designate the divisions of geologic time are a fascinating mixture of works that mark highlights in the historical development of geologic science over the past 200 years. Nearly every name signifies the acceptance of a new scientific concept -- a new rung in the ladder of geologic knowledge.

The discovery of the natural radioactive decay of uranium in 1896 by Henry Becquerel, the French physicist, opened new vistas in science. In 1905, the British physicist Lord Rutherford -- after defining the structure of the atom -- made the first clear suggestion for using radioactivity as a tool for measuring geologic time directly; shortly thereafter, in 1907, Professor B. B. Boltwood, radiochemist of Yale University, published a list of geologic ages based on radioactivity. Although Boltwood's ages have since been revised, they did show correctly that the duration of geologic time would be measured in terms of hundreds-to-thousands of millions of years.

The next 40 years was a period of expanding research on the nature and behavior of atoms, leading to the development of nuclear fission and fusion as energy sources. A byproduct of this atomic research has been the development and continuing refinement of the various methods and techniques used to measure the age of Earth materials. Precise dating has been accomplished since 1950.

A chemical element consists of atoms with a specific number of protons in their nuclei but different atomic weights owing to variations in the number of neutrons. Atoms of the same element with differing atomic weights are called isotopes. Radioactive decay is a spontaneous process in which an isotope (the parent) loses particles from its nucleus to form an isotope of a new element (the daughter). The rate of decay is conveniently expressed in terms of an isotope's half-life, or the time it takes for one-half of a particular radioactive isotope in a sample to decay. Most radioactive isotopes have rapid rates of decay (that is, short half-lives) and lose their radioactivity within a few days or years. Some isotopes, however, decay slowly, and several of these are used as geologic clocks. The parent isotopes and corresponding daughter products most commonly used to determine the ages of ancient rocks are listed below:


Parent Isotope Stable Daughter Product Currently Accepted Half-life Values
Uranium-238 Lead-206 4.5 billion years
Uranium-235 Lead-207 704 million years
Thorium-232 Lead-208 14.0 billion years
Rubidium-87 Strontium-87 48.8 billion years
Potassium-40 Argon-40 1.25 billion years
Samarium-147 Neodymium-143 106 billion years

The mathematical expression that relates radioactive decay to geologic time is called the age equation and is:

t=1/delta ln(1 + D/P)

where:

t is the age of a rock or mineral specimen,
D is the number of atoms of a daughter product today,
P is the number of atoms of the parent product today,
ln s the natural logarithm (logarithm to base e), and
delta is the appropriate decay constant.

(The decay constant for each parent isotope is related to its half-life, t 1/2, by the following expression:

t 1/2 = ln2/delta

Dating rocks by these radioactive timekeepers is simple in theory, but the laboratory procedures are complex. The numbers of parent and daughter isotopes in each specimen are determined by various kinds of analytical methods. The principal difficulty lies in measuring precisely very small amounts of isotopes.

Literally thousands of dated materials are now available for use to bracket the various episodes in the history of the Earth within specific time zones. Many points on the time scale are being revised, however, as the behavior of isotopes in the Earth's crust is more clearly understood. Thus the graphic illustration of the geologic time scale, showing both relative time and radiometric time, represents only the present state of knowledge. Certainly, revisions and modifications will be forthcoming as research continues to improve our knowledge of Earth history.

(Can someone quote me. He has me on ignore)


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Thanks!


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For the entertainment! 😎


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by las
"ALL fossils and fossil fuels can be carbon dated."

They can be dated, but not by carbon.

Your statements are absolutely the pinnacle of Bovine Excrement, due to either stupidity or gnorance. Or something. Doesn't seem curable tho.

And that's all I have to say about this.

You are displaying ignorant prejudice. The video shows the fallacy of the general use of radiometric dating. This has been proven many times by dating rocks of known age. Do some more research.
Please tell us how you know the age of non-igneous rocks; so that you can show the fallacy of radiometric dating.

How do YOU determine the age of granite?


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by WYcoyote
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Wow, I like that. There is a lot of data summed up there in an accessible format.
Even though it doesn't indicated it in that graphic, the oceans were teaming with life prior to the Cambrian. They just lacked hard parts that fossilize. That was a later development, when armor and such became necessary.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ConradCA
You can be both creationist and an evolutions. You believe that God created the universe and used evolution to create life to populate the earth.

For the serious student, they are mutually exclusive. The Bible tells us the earth started out cool. Evolution teaches it started out hot. Creation teaches the earth will end by burning. Evolution teaches it will end cold.

You are conflating evolution with cosmology.

The study of evolution is the study of living things on this Earth. The study of evolution can tell us nothing of how the Earth will end, though it might suggest the human species will be extinct millennia before that happen.

Most likely, the Earth will end in a huge fireball as the sun goes nova and consumes this solar system.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Ringman
They are guessing how much was there in order to determine the dates. Dating has nothing to do with how it is used in medicine.
If these radioactive isotopes half-lives are known, and they definitely are, and these discoveries and technologies are used every single day in this country to save lives and prolong lives and make peoples lives better, then their accuracy…all the way around (including dating)…is accurate…!

God forbid that you (or someone you care about) get cancer. But if that happened, you’d likely lean into this science for your health to hopefully prolong your life, make your life better, and maybe save your life.

Again, you are not getting it. They assume the amount of parent and daughter product in a rock. Then they assume nothing came in or leached out during millions of years.

You know I am convinced you are smarter than me, but on this one you are not getting it. There are too many assumptions for a reasonable scientist to accept the dates, much less us laymen.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Ringman
The very text say everything was finished by the seventh day. How do you believe the words about water but not the words about days?
Could the seventh day be longer than 24 hours…? In Hebrews it says that God is still at rest ~ are we still in the seventh day right now…? If the seventh day is longer than you think it is, then maybe the other 6 days are longer than you think they are…!

Your philosophical escape mechanism is flawed. Even in the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God, God gives the reason for worshiping on the seventh day. God says, "For in six days God created.... therefore you shall work six days."


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Ringman
The very text say everything was finished by the seventh day. How do you be believe the words about water but not the words about days?
All his commands to nature were indeed finished, and to him that's the same thing as their being accomplished. You keep forgetting that God isn't trapped in time as we are (time was merely one of his creations). He gives a command and sees it accomplished instantly, even when, to our reckoning (being creatures trapped in time), it take millions of years.

You keep forgetting God tells us it was finished by the seventh day. You like the water, but not the other words.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ConradCA
You can be both creationist and an evolutions. You believe that God created the universe and used evolution to create life to populate the earth.

For the serious student, they are mutually exclusive. The Bible tells us the earth started out cool. Evolution teaches it started out hot. Creation teaches the earth will end by burning. Evolution teaches it will end cold.

You are conflating evolution with cosmology.

The study of evolution is the study of living things on this Earth. The study of evolution can tell us nothing of how the Earth will end, though it might suggest the human species will be extinct millennia before that happen.

Most likely, the Earth will end in a huge fireball as the sun goes nova and consumes this solar system.

You haven't read enough material by evolutionists. They discuss other subjects, too.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Again, you are not getting it.
These known half-lives of radioactive isotopes…where the time required for half of the atoms of a particular radioactive substance to decay, where these decay rates are predictable (known)…allows scientists to measure the quantity of the remaining unstable atoms left in a rock (for example) and compare it to the quantity of related stable atoms in the rock, and determine/estimate the amount of time that has passed since that rock was formed.

I get it just fine. But my faith isn’t so weak and frail that it depends upon the universe not being billions of years old.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
And remember how the Gospel according to John ends:

This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. 25 But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.


Just because it’s not in the Bible doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

P

And just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean it did happen.

That’s why they call it faith.




P


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Originally Posted by Ringman
The very text say everything was finished by the seventh day. How do you believe the words about water but not the words about days?
Originally Posted by antlers
Could the seventh day be longer than 24 hours…? In Hebrews it says that God is still at rest ~ are we still in the seventh day right now…? If the seventh day is longer than you think it is, then maybe the other 6 days are longer than you think they are…!
Originally Posted by Ringman
Your philosophical escape mechanism is flawed. Even in the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God, God gives the reason for worshiping on the seventh day. God says, "For in six days God created.... therefore you shall work six days."
Is God still at rest (as the writer of Hebrews says) or not…? Is the writer of Hebrews wrong…?


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Originally Posted by Jahrs
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Bible is BS, theologians are wrong, scientists are right. The smart ones moved past this centuries ago. Even when the scientists are wrong...the Bible is still complete BS.

I have read a lot of threads, comments, statements on here over the last 23 years and this has to be the most foolish of all time.

As I recall, you're another Young Earth Creationist.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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