Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Kodiak Deer hurting?

Just got in from Kodiak, down towards the south end and the deer numbers were dismal. Doesn’t make much sense considering how good the numbers were just a couple years earlier. Sheep numbers down , Caribou numbers down, deer down, as well as Moose in many areas, are the bears soon to follow ? I don’t pretend to have an answer or know why but it’s scary. F&G needs to get realistic. Maybe they need to tell the out of state outfitting lobby to go home and stay there. Then again it’s probably too late. Oh well at least we got to see the tail end of it all. I am grateful for that, but sad to see the state of things.

Kodiak non-res are now limited to 1 buck, correct?

Kodiak deer populations have always fluctuated widely depending on winter weather. The access to drinking water is usually the main problem as even with deep snow, the deer can feed along the beach and even eat kelp. But when the temperature drops and the creeks freeze for weeks on end, the deer start dying by the thousands .

Yes sir, absolutely correct. But that hasn’t been the case recently , I think it was 19 20 on the N end. When the last die off in mass happened.Perhaps that caught up 3 years later , but that was the N end. We were south. Transporters were leaving with their clients in tow early this year. Doesn’t make sense . Last two years were really good?

out of state hunters help every states economy and without out of stater`s wildlife would have even smaller populations ,no the out of staters are not the problem its protecting meat eating predators to much. did you read what Alaska did for a caribou herd in Alaska ? Alaska`s DNR people shot 87 grizzly bears , wolves and some other predators to try and increase the population of that caribou herd. it seems like America in every state wants to save all these dang predators now days 100 years ago our old people killed, trap and poisoned predators ,we need to do that too ,this woke liberal chit aint helping either.

The main predator of deer on Kodiak is the weather. Kodiak bear hunting has been regulated for a long time now and the deer population has always ebbed and flowed. It isn’t the bears and no amount of nonresident money is going to change the weather

You have a lot of nerve! Introducing facts into a game management discussion is against the rules!

OK, so the weather is a big factor in Kodiak deer dying off, but is that the case this time? And if so what is the evidence?

It absolutely is the case.
We had an couple of very long winters. By April the deer are hurting. I had no problem killing a couple or decent deer but had to fly to south end.

PWS has seen its share of die off's, but it only bounced back. Kodiak is no different.

Seems like population has a several year cycle. Last winter on the KP was snowier than average, and a late slow spring. Guessing the rock was similar.

If the deer numbers fall then the bear numbers need to be reduced to match to even things up and let the spring newborns have a chance

there's far too much brown bear worship on Kodiak, need at least a 50% termination

How ? Every Alaskan resident that goes deer hunting anywhere on the Kodiak Islands should be allowed one over the counter brown bear tag on the same hunt

Seems to me the ebb and flow has been working for years. Of course if someone doesn't pay attention, pays to go hunt and gets skunked... I get that too.

Would be like sheep hunting in our unit this year. One Resident wanted to. Knew the odds. And the odds won.

Granted I've only been reading about this situation since the mid 80s.

Hunting pressure and climate. We used to shoot any bull moose in what is today the city limits of Wasilla. We used to shoot any bull in what is today Kinkaid Park. Those days are gone........forever. ADFG can't fix that.

But here's an idea: repeal the PFD. Within six months, at least 20% of the resident population disappears, and they will be the precise residents we need gone, too.

Its often amazing how many residents can think residents are without blame.

Numbers of anything... supply and demand. Fairly easy to understand. BUT the weather sure can make numbers go up and down

Hunting quotas, yes; trapping, maybe; poisoning never.

My vote. Far too much collateral death with poison. But on Kodiak, every bear could be dead and deer populations would still take a hit due to weather IMO.

Yup. Predators fit in the formula and wanting them all gone is nuts.

They have to be managed and seems they are managed.

But weather, IE what the prey, so to speak, has a huge factor often at the worst time of the season.

I was stationed in Kodiak from 96-99. I don't recall creeks freezing for weeks on end. Just as an example. Lake Catherine and Lake Louise would be frozen over and the creeks that drained them would never freeze solid. Likewise, I don't recall the Buskin ever freezing solid. It seems that there were always areas of moving water. That's obviously just a snapshot. I suppose the weather could have been atypical during that time.

Interesting thoughts about the creeks freezing but I don't accept it. I have hunted Kodiak roughly 12 times beginning 1985. All our trips were roughly 7 days long where we camped on shore on the upper half of the island. Most of these trips were in December. There is freshwater coming up from underground springs everywhere. We never once had a difficult time finding fresh water for our needs. There is water everywhere, and I mean everywhere.
I will say IMO the hunting in the late 1980's and early 90's were the best. Shooting 4-5 nice bucks during the week was easy and many forks were passed up. I remember one sunny afternoon in 85 or 86 when the wife and I climbed to about 2,000 feet and started glassing. We found over a dozen decent bucks in a 500 yard circle around us. After that period we noticed a gradual slowdown in the deer population.
Hunting pressure? Lack of food? Maybe a little of either.
But lack of unfrozen water? No way.

You have to love the notion of people with very little time on the ground when deer are really struggling knowing what kills them. I had a boat there for 27 years and hunted it long before I had the boat. Early bear hunts in late springs can be very sad affairs.

'98 was the last incredible year on the north end. The numbers and quality were everywhere. Predators including the human side have virtually nothing to do with deer populations on Kodiak.

That segment coming for the PFD lack the resources to leave...

Sourdoughs
Sour on Alaska; no dough to leave.

BINGO!

Both the response and the reason for short funds!!!

Kodiak is hard to figure. We were down toward the south end as well, but saw plenty of deer and did well. 10 miles further south as the crow flies, where we normally hunt, seems like they were doing pretty poorly. I think there are so many variables it's hard know what's going on with the populations locally.

7 days. 12 times. In December. You should be a biologist for the islands deer then.

Naw, F&G should call Roland at Seahawk air if he is still flying. He flys a lot of hunters in and out and knows how many game bags they have filled, or not.
Deer hunting in Alaska used to be overlooked. We did our first hunt in November 77 at Montaque. Hunting was decent but not anywhere near as good as on Kodiak.

How did they get here?

They probably found some public assistance... or someone thought it worthwhile to get them gone from where they were.

DOH !!!

It would seem counterintuitive to me to take on the burden of Alaska's appreciably higher cost of living for an average of about $1500 per person per year.

Yup. And my bet is that if you cut the freebies, they'll go elsewhere, especially by the following mid-winter. And it might be wise to cut that waste before the Migrant World figures this scam out.

The Permanent Fund was set up several years after the first Norway Government Pension Fund. The second Norway Government Pension Fund Global, set up in 1990, now owns 1.5% of the world's listed companies in all markets. They don't hand out drinking money to anybody with a heartbeat. They invest it.

Daddy used to say that it wasn't so much how much you earned, but what you did with it that counts. Throwing big annual parties helps the liquor store owner, but it doesn't do so much for your future........unless you enjoy hangovers........

PFD monies do not attract the sharpest folks. They do not recognize the higher cost of living before coming.

I was on a Murder trial jury about 20 years ago. A 260# Pacific island bodybuilder (getting enough to eat) baby shaker, youngest of 19 kids. Four adults came with the kids.

Cannot argue your point, but I do see the wisdom in Hammond's position that the people must have skin in the game or the fund will be burnt in a heartbeat.

They’re not here on scholarships.

thats for sure a plan. find out how many deer where shot. It solves the whole problem pretty quickly....

lolololol

It was a great sale, mostly by Dick Randolph, an ardent socialist. But it's pretty easy to get votes on free money, especially when you were poor and suddenly won the lottery. And it was a very true forecast: putting an end to the PFD will spark a small revolution. In economic terms, we call that a ratchet effect; it freely goes one way, but the other requires muscle.

Like your story about the huge family showing up, I knew of one like it: our church was looking for a family to put up a new arrival family immediately after the first PFD payout. They had arrived from Tennessee with ten kids without having bothered to learn that they wouldn't qualify to even apply until having lived here for a year. It was my first clue on how bad a political policy it was. It attracts precisely the wrong folks, and holds them here longer than Alaska needs them. And these are not the ideal times for such a policy, what with illegal immigration being a worldwide issue.

A friend got back from Kodiak last weekend, fly in, drop off hunt, 2 hunters tent camping.
Shot 3 deer, bears got all of them.

Sounds like Afognak

In a situation like this would ADF&G reissue the deer tags? I think I know the answer and I’m only hoping I don’t get laughed at for asking it in the first place but since you can’t shoot the offending bear according to ADF&G it seems like they would almost “have” to reissue the tags they required you to “burn”? 🙄

No

I doubt that would happen, probably cite ya for wanton waste first!

F&G is not going to cut you any slack.
I think the limit is 3 deer.

If you pass through city of kodiak with only 3 deer...... jus saying

3 for residents... one per year for nonresidents.

Absolutely not. In classic government form, they consider deer carcasses absconded by bears to be your fault. Indeed, eventually, they will be considering such events as illegal feeding of wildlife, subjecting the violator to fines.

If they wanted to stringently enforce "take" as written in the regs, you would never be allowed to leave the house with a gun to hunt.

Read it for laughs....????

I haven’t hunted Kodiak half the time some folks commenting probably have. Hell, I haven’t been on the planet half as long as some folks here have been hunting Kodiak!
Having said that, in my experience it has largely ebbed and flowed, and never seemed too big a worry to me. Some years have been sparse, many sort of in the middle, and some years I literally pinch myself to make sure I’m not dreaming, with how many deer can be seen in a single day of hunting.
One thing I have noticed more of, resident and non resident hunters, is the big boats that unleash small army’s of deer hunters on shore, where the hunters shoot any and I mean any buck, and keep going till tagged out. What they’re doing is 100% legal, and therefore not my business, but don’t really share the same values on what I’m looking for in a hunt apparently.
I’ll whine about it lol, but years the deer seem few and far between climbing up high usually helps.

If you want to shoot big bucks the only two options are climbing to the top or waiting until a major dump puts them on the beach, yarded. Of the big deer I have shot, only two were not up high, including the biggest I have shot.

sure looks like they should've employed the very effective SSS solution to azzhole bears, it only takes once and they learn the lesson of their lifetime and never do it again

I gotcha…I figured I knew what the answer was…..being an optimist can get in the way of reality anymore but I still try to think that people will do the right thing … to my discredit I sometimes extend my optimism to government which I know is fruitless and dumb. 😀🤬

I didn’t even consider that they might try to nail you for wanton waste or some other petty bullshit for doing the right and legal thing to do but unfortunately that’s where we’re at today.

Sorry for the minor thread detour and thanks for all the replies. 👍🏼

I don't see a problem defending what is yours. Shoot a bear defending your deer kill wouldn't bother me at all! Where the problem come's in is F&G figure everyone saying that is lying about it so you can't do it because some guy did lie about it. Government over reacting. Easier for government to tell you you can't do it! of course maybe you were between the bear and your dead deer. Then it becomes a matter of you defending yourself. Then you'll lose the right to defend yourself. It's a screwed up world!

Kodiak is a 100% drawing permit only hunt for brown bear. If you draw a fall permit, shoot a deer and hunt the gut pile. My experience is that there will be a bear on it before the next morning. But if you don't draw a bear permit, shooting a bear legally would only fall within DLP regs.

DLP (defense of life or property) shooting of bears on Kodiak is still legal, but legally harvested game meat doesn't fall within the "property" definition, and you can be confident that they'll investigate the scene. Yeah, it sucks, but the state and feds intensively manage those bears for obvious reasons. They really don't care if you and I hunt deer there and bring home any meat. They care about those bears.

And those bears aren't stupid. They learn quicker than a significant percentage of homo sapiens. They've come to completely understand the fall deer buffet rules: they can pretty much do whatever they want short of attacking the monkey. I won't bunt deer there anymore unless I'm staying in a cabin, and the cabins get shot out early each year. It just isn't worth it anymore to me.

Not true... road system has been registration and OTC forever.

I stand corrected. But I have no interest in paying the money necessary to access the Kodiak road area for a single deer when I can get a half steer (processed) for double the cost of airfare alone. A round trip ferry ticket with my camper and trailer twenty years ago was $1000.

I've hunted Kodiak deer with a party of guys. It was nice and affordable in a party. I've always thought that hunting the island from a yacht or commercial fishing boat would be great, but again, I can't justify the cost. I can hunt deer cheaper and with as good a success rate in the states, and I don't have to worry about being blown across the strait by a hurricane or have half a ton of bear bullying me for my deer carcass

I'm no expert on Kodiak deer but thought I would pass on an anecdotal conversation I had today at the gun counter with a nice young native man who lives on an eastern island off Kodiak. He was doing some last-minute shopping with his wife and young children and hoping the ferry would be on schedule.

He proudly showed me some pictures of some dandy bull elk and this year's deer harvest. I asked him how the deer were doing in his area, and he caught me off guard when he said "Good". I acted surprised and told him I had heard the deer were not doing well in some areas. He said it was true the deer harvest was poor in other areas and then told me what he believed and witnessed first-hand. He laid the blame on large charter boats running with upwards of 10 on-board. He said he watched them come back with 30 deer on-board and he also claimed the same boats were hammering the ducks. He personally had to go to one boat to complain about the birdshot scattering through the trees near his home and village. Again, its anecdotal, but he seemed very sincere and convincing to me.

How many boats run with large crews? How often? Do they all run to the same honey holes like the halibut charter boats do?

I'm not casting blame, just passing on young man's observation.

You mean like this?


Otherside of the boat looked the same.
Over 20 years ago in PWS, 6 guys, some dead now.

Deer kill off from snow is more devastating than hunters or bears, at least in PWS.

Traded some venison with the Alyeska RV for ice cream, cigars and paper towels.

No doubt. The best Alaskan deer hunt I did was the last half of December one year on Montague. I could have limited out without my rifle. They were stacked up on the beach at low tide, and a few feet into the wall of snow at high tide. Could have harvested them with the jawbone of an ass. We spent most of our time eating deer meat and lounging.

One more tidbit from the young man about bears robbing deer meat. He said most of bears he has seen or heard of taking hunter harvested deer are sows with cubs. He believes the sows are teaching this to their offspring. Is this not the same learned behavior as trash eating bear in urban areas?

I wonder if fish and wildlife has thought this through. In urban areas the homeowners are expected to keep trash indoors or secured or they could be fined. Urban trails and parks are built with $$$$$$ taxpayer money and then immediately closed following bear sightings. Is this the intended outcome for hunters as well? Why are bears held at a higher standard than humans? Kodiak is obviously about money, considering the enormous amount charged per guided hunts. Why are the Kenai Penn bears so coddled? I see several cow moose around my place each spring with twin calves dropped and within a week or two most cows have only one calf or zero calves left, and the cow is limping with visible scars. Yet, last year F&G sent out an emergency email following moose season canceling the Kenai brown bear registration due to harvest goals for 2022. What is the real goal?

Yep, The two hunts I made in PWS we went to Hinchinbrook late November. The deer were on the beach and were not going anywhere.
It was a neat hunt, but the picture was somewhat embarrassing as some were small and a few of the guys were shooting 300 win mags. If you dont hit them in the head it will waste a lot of meat, especially of they are small.

It doesn't take much of a cartridge to knock down those blacktails!

I started targeting bucks pretty quickly as they are typically bigger bodied.