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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Ringman
You seem to forget there are many people who come to Jesus because their faith in evolution fell apart. Then they look to the Savior.
I doubt there are “many” who are led to Jesus “because their faith in evolution fell apart.” I think their number likely pales in comparison to the people who are pushed away from Jesus because of folks who profess to be Christians that come across as being the polar opposite of Jesus.
Originally Posted by Ringman
You wrote a couple lines about Peter. He teaches those who are serious, "Grow in grace and knowledge...." Which includes more than the cross. It includes Peter ordering the first Gentiles to be baptized in water. He believed Jesus when Jesus says, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."
But NONE of that changes what Peter made clear was the very foundation of his faith and hope…! None of that has anything to do with Peter’s decision to follow Jesus after the resurrection. You can reference whatever you choose to (including your perception of the inadequacy of my reasoning).

I think Peter himself would explain his reasoning ~ and I think he only had one reason. When Jesus was arrested, Peter ran...and when asked if he knew Jesus, he lied. And when the Romans crucified Jesus, he died. And at that time, Peter was like other non-believers...he had no faith. He didn’t know what to believe. He had no reason to believe. He’d just spent 3 years of his life following a false prophet, and now he had a price on his head.

And then Jesus came…there He was...very much alive. I think Peter would tell you…and clarify one thing with you…
his reason for believing wasn’t because of something he’d heard or read or had read to him. And it sure as heck wasn’t because of the first three chapters of Genesis. I think he’d tell you that he believes what he believes because of what he saw...he watched Jesus die, he knew exactly where Jesus was buried, but God raised Him...and Peter saw Him, and he saw Him more than once. That’s the reason...that’s the only reason...for Peter’s hope. He very clearly said so.
And that is the reason for my hope as well.

You are certainly depending on your opinion to not accept the numbers of people I have met or read their testimony on why they started their journey to Jesus. I met a Jew who came to Jesus from reading the Prophets and then Matthew. I read books by individuals who came to Jesus by trying to discredit the Bbile. Like Apostle Paul says, "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some."

You are concerned about people's opinion of me or my post. Their opinion of me or my post is NOT the ONE with Whom they must eventually deal. It is God's opinion of them that they must be concerned with.


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I’m just making a point on what’s clear and what’s not so clear. Between genesis 1;1 and 1;2 in my mind, there is not clarity on how much time has passed between “in the beginning” and “then God said” not a hill to die on in my book.


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Genesis specifies literal days, the morning and evening of the first day, second day, etc. Written at a time when people had no idea of the sheer scope and scale of the universe.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
I do believe you are trying to be a little tricky by using something out of context.
“So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today.” - the writer of Hebrews
Originally Posted by Ringman
My intention for this thread was to challenge people to think for themselves and come to Jesus.
Do you think you’re succeeding…? People here have made it crystal clear that you’re pushing people away from Jesus.
Originally Posted by Ringman
What is yours, antlers?
Folks may need reminding that those who hope to use the Bible to beat FACTS and TRUTH into non-existence represent only a small slice of fully devoted followers of Jesus ~ the majority of whom have no problem with FACTS and TRUTH.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
You are concerned about people's opinion of me or my post. Their opinion of me or my post is NOT the ONE with Whom they must eventually deal. It is God's opinion of them that they must be concerned with.
Jesus had some pretty harsh words for those who push His children away.


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Ringman reminds me of Barack. He was autistic.

Nothing wrong with that, I just see similarities. Or, he’s just the run of the mill troll.

My give a chit meter of how old the earth is or isn’t, is still pegged….. at zero. However, my belief is that it’s in the billions.


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My point is that it was men who wrote the Bible. They had no way of determining how old the earth is. We have the scientific method which allows us to determine the age. Science is for the most part correct if done correctly. So why would you believe people who had no concept of science or the scientific method? The best way to look at it is that the men who wrote the Bible provided the best explanation of how the earth came to be and how old it is, but men are fallible and had no way to determine the truth. It’s best not to look to the Bible for science.



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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by P_Weed
The Earth is approximately as old as the hills.

Then it can be carbon dated.


Because the hills are alive......

Yes! With The Sound Of Music.

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I'm certain the earth is older than me and am reasonably certain it will outlast me.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by RayF
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by RayF
Fascinating how we have people claiming to be scientific and use overly general and subjective adjectives like “Rigorous” to portray their secret religion as true science.

So saya a geocentric flat earther who is lost to fantasy and has no credibility.

Awwww. Little fella doesn’t like his tone being returned in his direction. Christians are supposed to tolerate your asinine, provocative behavior. Not return it.

Credibility? Is that when you make a slanderous statement, like saying they’re a geocentric flat-earther when they’re not? If so, you’ve got all the credibility, genius.


Pick up your comics, girlyboy, and lose yourself in fantasy.....no doubt that happened long ago, you are now older, but never matured, tragically trapped in a fantasy world of your own making.

I saw somewhere that RayLene has admitted to being diagnosed as suffering from the Dunning/Kruger effect.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by SargeMO
I'm certain the earth is older than me and am reasonably certain it will outlast me.

Your post made me smile.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by RayF
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by RayF
Fascinating how we have people claiming to be scientific and use overly general and subjective adjectives like “Rigorous” to portray their secret religion as true science.

So saya a geocentric flat earther who is lost to fantasy and has no credibility.

Awwww. Little fella doesn’t like his tone being returned in his direction. Christians are supposed to tolerate your asinine, provocative behavior. Not return it.

Credibility? Is that when you make a slanderous statement, like saying they’re a geocentric flat-earther when they’re not? If so, you’ve got all the credibility, genius.


Pick up your comics, girlyboy, and lose yourself in fantasy.....no doubt that happened long ago, you are now older, but never matured, tragically trapped in a fantasy world of your own making.

I saw somewhere that RayLene has admitted to being diagnosed as suffering from the Dunning/Kruger effect.

Poor girl, it must be hard to go through life never understanding the difference between fact and fiction, reality and myth. Always feeling right, yet left with a nagging sense of grief and frustration when her beliefs are challenged.

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you are all wrong about the earth, Adam and Eve. grin whistle


The first humans
The three bothers Odin, Vili and Ve were strolling together on a beach. As they were walking they found two nice looking logs. One seemed to be from the Ash tree and the other seemed to come from an Elm tree.

Odin blew the gift of life and spirit into the logs.

From Vili they received movement, mind and intelligence.

Ve gave them shape, speech, feelings and the five senses.

The first two humans had been created.

The man was given the name Ask. He had been made out of wood from an Ash tree.

The woman was given the name Embla. She had been made from the wood of an Elm tree.

The Aesir decided the humans was to reside in a place they named Midgard. The Aesir named their own territory Asgard. It was to be just about impossible for humans to wander through to Asgard, the home of the gods.




The world was created from the remains of the giant Ymir. The three brothers dragged Ymir’s lifeless body towards the center of Ginnungagap, this is the place where they created the world from the remains of Ymir.

The blood became the oceans, rivers, and lakes.
The flesh became the land.
The bones became the mountains.
The teeth were made into rocks.
The hair became the grass and trees.
The eyelashes became Midgard.

They threw the brain up in the air and it became the clouds, and the skull became the sky, Ymir’s skull would be the lid that covered the new world. The brothers grabbed some of the sparks shooting out from Muspelheim, the land of fire.

They threw the sparks up toward the inside of the skull, these sparks gleamed at night and this is what we call the stars. On the plains of Idavoll, they built Asgard, which would be the home of the Gods. Very far away from Asgard, in a place called Jotunheim was the giants allowed to live.


"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B

Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".

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Originally Posted by antlers
So what was the foundation of Peter’s faith…? Where did Peter get his hope…? Where did Peter get his boldness…? Where did he get his confidence…? It sure as heck wasn’t from the first three chapters of Genesis…! How is it he’s out walking around in the open…proclaiming Jesus to the very people who had Him killed…whereas before he was afraid and ran for his life…? Again, it sure as heck wasn’t because of the first three chapters of Genesis…!

The foundation of Peter’s faith wasn’t something he’d read or had read to him. The foundation of Peter’s faith was what he’d seen. So for Jesus’ followers nowadays, what should be the foundation of their faith…? What should be the epicenter of their confidence…? It sure as heck isn’t the first three chapters of Genesis…!

Apostle Peter would say “that’s easy…the resurrection”…!

This is how the message of Jesus survived the Jewish Temple and the Roman Empire. And remember that the first persecution of Christians was from the Jewish Temple, it wasn’t from Rome. This is how Christianity survived the first, second, third, and the beginning of the fourth century.

The first-century followers of Jesus embraced what all followers of Jesus nowadays oughta embrace: they embraced the stand-alone version of Christianity. They didn’t need the first three chapters of Genesis to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the creation narrative in Genesis explained to them to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the story of Noah, or the story of Jonah to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the Law of Moses to prop up their faith. Christianity stood on its own two nail-scarred, resurrection, first-century feet. It did then, and it does now.

A very typical, well-reasoned post which is normal for my friend antlers. 👍🏼

I get frustrated by the Creation/evolution arguments, especially as it relates to Christianity. We are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ not by any belief or non-belief in evolution.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ConradCA
You can be both creationist and an evolutions. You believe that God created the universe and used evolution to create life to populate the earth.

For the serious student, they are mutually exclusive. The Bible tells us the earth started out cool. Evolution teaches it started out hot. Creation teaches the earth will end by burning. Evolution teaches it will end cold.

You are conflating evolution with cosmology.

The study of evolution is the study of living things on this Earth. The study of evolution can tell us nothing of how the Earth will end, though it might suggest the human species will be extinct millennia before that happen.

Most likely, the Earth will end in a huge fireball as the sun goes nova and consumes this solar system.

You haven't read enough material by evolutionists. They discuss other subjects, too.

An evolutionist may very well discuss many subjects including the width of standard gauge railroad tracks, or the proper fuel for your diesel pickup when the ambient temperature hits -50F. That does not place those subjects in the purview of evolution.


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by antlers
So what was the foundation of Peter’s faith…? Where did Peter get his hope…? Where did Peter get his boldness…? Where did he get his confidence…? It sure as heck wasn’t from the first three chapters of Genesis…! How is it he’s out walking around in the open…proclaiming Jesus to the very people who had Him killed…whereas before he was afraid and ran for his life…? Again, it sure as heck wasn’t because of the first three chapters of Genesis…!

The foundation of Peter’s faith wasn’t something he’d read or had read to him. The foundation of Peter’s faith was what he’d seen. So for Jesus’ followers nowadays, what should be the foundation of their faith…? What should be the epicenter of their confidence…? It sure as heck isn’t the first three chapters of Genesis…!

Apostle Peter would say “that’s easy…the resurrection”…!

This is how the message of Jesus survived the Jewish Temple and the Roman Empire. And remember that the first persecution of Christians was from the Jewish Temple, it wasn’t from Rome. This is how Christianity survived the first, second, third, and the beginning of the fourth century.

The first-century followers of Jesus embraced what all followers of Jesus nowadays oughta embrace: they embraced the stand-alone version of Christianity. They didn’t need the first three chapters of Genesis to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the creation narrative in Genesis explained to them to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the story of Noah, or the story of Jonah to prop up their faith. They didn’t need the Law of Moses to prop up their faith. Christianity stood on its own two nail-scarred, resurrection, first-century feet. It did then, and it does now.

A very typical, well-reasoned post which is normal for my friend antlers. 👍🏼

I get frustrated by the Creation/evolution arguments, especially as it relates to Christianity. We are saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ not by any belief or non-belief in evolution.

I am fascinated so many here believe in Jesus' Blood but don't believe His Word. I occasionally encounter folks stuck in the Law of Moses. It is about as tough to get them to accept "Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." and "...you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ." This information falls under "Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesu Christ."


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Originally Posted by DBT
Genesis specifies literal days, the morning and evening of the first day, second day, etc. Written at a time when people had no idea of the sheer scope and scale of the universe.
Days passed between his commands to nature. There's no reason to assume that days passed between nature obeying his commands.

There's nothing false, for example, about the statement: "On Monday, March 3rd, 1943, General Richards commanded the fort be constructed, and it was so, and he saw that it was good," even if construction wasn't complete for a month. Heck, it's the case even if construction didn't start for a month, it's still a perfectly true statement from our perspective in the year 2023. There's nothing in the statement that grammatically requires that the fort was completed on March 3rd.

The above statement could go on and read that the next day, "On March 4th, 1943, General Richards commanded that his third brigade take Strasbourg, and it was so, and he saw that it was good." Again, the statement isn't an assertion that on March 4th the city was actually taken. It could have been days or weeks later, but from our perspective in 2023, it's a perfectly correct statement, and doesn't even force the conclusion that it occurred after the fort was constructed.

All we know from the above two statements (from our perspective in 2023) are the dates on which the two commands were issued, and the sequence of the two commands. Information about when they were accomplished isn't contained in them, just that at some point they were.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Marley7x57
Some of you folks spent a lot of time trying to validate a book of fiction.

You would do well to do a little research. I remember three archeologists: Nelson Gulik, Clifford Wilson, and William Albright being on the same dig in the Middle East (I am old.). Gulik was an atheist, Wilson a born-again Christian, and Albright was antagonistic toward the Bible but not an atheist. One thing they all agreed on was the ancient Jews were careful historian. Perhaps you didn't know that.

Three archeologists walk into a bar…🤔

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Originally Posted by Ringman
I am fascinated so many here believe in Jesus' Blood but don't believe His Word.
I believe in Jesus’ Blood, and I believe His Word. Wholeheartedly. But I absolutely and unequivocally disagree with your interpretation of His Word.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Ringman
I am fascinated so many here believe in Jesus' Blood but don't believe His Word.
I believe in Jesus’ Blood, and I believe His Word. Wholeheartedly. But I absolutely and unequivocally disagree with your interpretation of His Word.

Yep!

John 5:46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”


"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867

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