Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters New Hodgdon Burn Chart Nov 23

I was just glancing at it, and much to my great horror , Ramshot Magnum isn't listed. Instead it has Ramshot Grand and LRT ( ? ) . What Happened ? Magnum is my go-to powder for my 264WM !

Amazes me sometimes that people don’t realize Ramshot is now owned by Hodgdons and are surprised that they might kill off certain powders. Doesn’t surprise me a bit.

Sorry for your loss.

Looks to me that they might have just renamed Magnum. Grand is on pretty much the same place on the chart as Magnum used to be, near H1000.

I sure hope you are right. It really shines in my 264. I'm not too keen to do another load development . 264 barrels are not noted for their longevity.

First the Endurons got killed, and now Magnum? Bummer.
Magnum is fantastic in my 257 Roberts with the 115 Partition. At least I have enough to last my life.

Here's the LINK

Comparing to earlier chart it does look like "Grand" sits exactly where Magnum used to.

Cheers,
Rex

I just received the latest edition of the Hodgdon Annual Manual, and looked at the article of Joseph Von Benedikt on Grand powder, comparing it to the Magnum data still listed on the Hodgdon website.

Joe worked up to the maximum charges Hodgdon provided for various cartridges, but his list of test loads stops about a grain under max. As an example, in the 6.5 PRC he used 59.0 grains with the Hornady 147-grain ELD-M, for 2791 in the 22" barrel of his rifle, for 2791 fps.

The maximum Magnum charge, listed in the manual, for the 147 ELD-M is 61.3 grains, for 2937 fps from a 24" barrel. Joe also used a different primer with Grand than Hodgdon did for their Magnum data.

One of the few 6.5 PRC loads in the Annual Manual that lists both Grand and Magnum with the same bullet, the 153-grain Hornady A-Tip, shows 61.0 grains of Magnum as max for 2893 fps, and 58.7 grains of Grand as max for 2891 fps.

The major difference in Grand appears to be a decoppering agent, but its also claimed to be temp-stable, much like the Staball powders. But I have tested Magnum in various temperatures cartridge since it appeared, and its always been just about as temp-stable as Hodgdon Endurons.

Forecast bad things as Hodgdons bought everything up.

Was pounded on by naive fan boys.

Didn't have to be Nostradamus to see one company absorbing almost every competing supplier of multiple competing product lines as very bad.
Products were certainly going to be eliminated,
and prices would surely drop.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It amazes me all the new powders that have come about in the last 10-15 years. When I started reloading close to 25 years ago the powders didn't seem like they had changed much from the previous decades. Now more new powders have come and gone than I can keep track of.

I am glad the companies keep innovating and brings new products to the market but in our current times with such shortages I wonder if more efforts would be better spent in keeping up with supply vs new products? I am sure it is two different parts of the company so one probably doesn't effect the other. I am glad to see that the shortage is starting to subside.

It's like every other industry in the country.
Engineers have to come up with new and
innovative to justify their jobs regardless
if the niche is already filled, same as the
marketing execs

Thanks Mule Deer. That looks like a another series of load development .Swear word. At least they are running Grande at a higher pressure, if you can infer that from the same max velocity . I have been looking for Magnum for a while now, I guess I'm S.O.L

Ramshot powders had been difficult to get in Canada.( A single small importer who showed up at the big Kamloops show) With the Hodgdon take over I had hoped for an easier time, which is generally true.

I don' think they killed off Endurons, the same plant makes the old IMR series. IMR 4350 is available. I think it's just quicker and easier to make the old IMR powders , than the new powders.

I have plenty of Magnum on hand. I am looking forward to trying the Grand. I wish all rifle powders had de-coppering agents and were temperature stable. There’s been good powders coming out and some poor powders disappearing.
Unfortunately a few of the powders I liked are gone too. My 35 Whelen and 350 Mag liked IMR4320 for example.

I would like to know the real reason the new IMR powders are no longer in production. It doesn’t make sense to me.

The number of new propellants has increased. We used to say that there were gaps in burn rates, but that's narrowed considerably. And there's this: cleaner burning propellants, copper reducing propellants and improved formulations. Technology continues to advance. I agree that these are positive changes but wonder, like you, how much this affects production.

Reloaders only see a small portion of what powder manufacturers produce and sell. Military and commercial contracts are their bread and butter. It's easy to understand when government or industry orders go up that something's gotta give. Still, while production for our needs might be scaled back, we are nonetheless seeing some stuff on the shelves. I think we should be thankful that some product is managing to find its way to us.

Without expanded manufacturing facilities, it is difficult for them to meet demand. The board rooms make decisions to cycle production to satisfy orders from the big buyers.

I think this is the first new burnrate chart that Hodgdon has brought out since buying Accurate, you would think that they would have fixed some of the obvious blunders but they didn't.

For example Accurate LT-32 was brought out to specifically to compete with VVN133, in reality it has been proven to be just on the slow side. on the chart they have it listed as 11 places faster, even faster than the 4198's. they also have Accurate 2015 as being faster than VVN133 and that has never been the case through 3 different countries of manufacture. then they have Accurate LT-30 as fast as the pistol powders.
could rant more but will leave it at that

I see where this is going. Eventually one company owns all the powder manufacturing. You know what comes after that.

We talk about one powder company when they merely sell the powder manufactures product. The profit margin wasn't enough for Winchester brand, IMR brand, Accurate or Ramshot to bother any more.

The maximum Grand load I cited is listed at 61,300 PSI, the maximum Magnum load at 61,00o PSI.

The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure for the 6.5 PRC is 65,000 PSI, regardless of powder.

No, that's not the reason.

Instead Enduron production was suspended due to the Quebec plant's previous military contracts for powder, which they couldn't fulfill unless they suspended production of some handloader powders. The demand for the older IMRs was higher than for Endurons, which is why they suspended Endurons.

Sounds like boomer reloader's are resistant to change, lol.

Thanks for that explanation MD. I understand that line of reasoning, since IMR4350, IMR4895, & IMR4831 are powders that work well in many cartridges, at least for me. I never worked out a load with IMR4451 that worked as well as H4350 and IMR4350, but I didn’t try that hard with the prices of components slowing experimentation.

The thought had occurred to me that the profit margin was greater with the old powders, but your explanation makes more sense.