I think there is a lot of history in the ammo just hoped we can
show people what is missing in the Savage cartridge world
ammo boxes - power cans -and other stuff.
That is a fairly large topic.
UMC ammo for Savage Early Savage ammo 1900 - WWI Savage powder cans Savage reloading tools Savage ammo WWI - WWII Savage ammo post WWII What'd I forget....?
Here's some of mine. Small selection compared to what's out there. I've got a few others in storage..
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Here's some I saw at Tulsa on Fug's table a number of years ago..
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Here is just some of the ammo collection. I didn't have room for all of it. Fug1899, when Kurt came to visit you showed him some ammo boxes. How many different variations are there to the savage ammo boxes.
Here is just some of the ammo collection. I didn't have room for all of it. Fug1899, when Kurt came to visit you showed him some ammo boxes. How many different variations are there to the savage ammo boxes.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
I can cover the powder cans. I have 7 variations and that is all I know of at this time. Still looking for someone that can tell me if there are others.
Also, have a full set of Savage reloading tools as do several others here on the 24.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
If folks want, I'd be happy to set up some subject areas with pictures and descriptions on my website.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Something I never noticed and never thought to ask: did Savage ever market rimfire ammo, or even do any R&D on it?
I think it was Ralph that told me a long time ago he saw 22 Ammunition listed in one of the Savage catalogs, a few years alter I found what I think might be what he was referring to in the 1904 pocket catalog, but I don't think it was Savage branded ammunition, you have to look at the other ammunition pages in that catalog to see that Savage made was marked with an asterisk, and none of the 22 listings are. Note that primed cases could be purchased for the hand loader - if you wanted to load with blackpowder 1000 case was $0.50 less than if you intended to load with smokeless (some early marketing trick???).
Here are the other ammunition pages for reference - PS, all of those who set-up at the PA Savage Fest were give a reproduction copy of this catalog.
I'm a little late to this one. My cartridge display 1895 box of miniature cartridges top end open box with a loaded miniature round
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
Question on the primers: Are the individual primers marked? I have two boxes but neither is open. Wondering if they have a "S" stamp?
For those that might not know what they are looking at... bullet boxes, Savage Red Oil bottles, primer box, 2 packs of Savage toy rifle balls and a Savage desk sign. Partial ammo boxes at very top.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
I have questions about the box in the lower left corner of Davids photo...
This box style is reported to have been manufactured from 1923 through 1931.
It was originated by Savage and can be identified by the "Manufactured by Savage Arms Corp." statement on the back of the early boxes.
It appears that Savage then contracted with USCCo in late 1926 to assume production of Savage brand ammunition. At that same time USCCo sold the company to Winchester who agreed to continue manufacture under the USCC name for at least 10 years. (Not sure if the contract was made before or after the sale.) This ammo can be identified with the "Made in the USA" statement on the back of the box.
In 1927 Winchester introduced corrosion free priming followed by USCCo in 1928. At that time USCCo added a small blue sticker to the Savage box front advising of the change.
My question is what calibers and markings do you have in this box style?
I have: .300 Sav, Manufactured by Savage, no sticker (pre-1927?) .300 Sav, Made in USA, blue sticker (post 1927?) .250-3000, Made in USA, no sticker (have 5) (1927?)
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
I think I answered my own question. Should be Savage production.
Note the center group (1924 - 1927) all showing 2 piece boxes. This group is the Savage produced cartridges. (as a correction, the 25-20, 32-20, and all the other hand gun rounds are packaged in one piece boxes)
The last group are the USCCo produced rounds. Note that all the Remington (4), 25-35 and all handgun rounds have been dropped. The .30-06 loadings have been added. All USCCo production would have been in the 2 piece box. I think "No inside flaps" should only be listed for the 25-20 and 32-20 in the one piece box. The other rounds were packed in the two piece box.
As for the blue sticker, my thinking is that it was only on the USCCo boxes. Was it on all of the 3 years of production or only on maybe the first year of production... till the new wore off and everyone was suppling non-corrosive?
Last edited by Rick99; 12/16/23.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
"The 32 S&W Black Powder Manufactured by Savage Arms Corporation. This box has 1918 hand written on it."
Doug, I see no indication that Savage produced/sold black powder revolver rounds till the1923 ad. The red box ammo is the only listed and it was dropped when production switched to USCCo.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
Savage, Savage caliber and some others while I was at it. Questions on any? Fire away. See a duplicate (250-3000 blue box) that may fill a hole? PM me.
"The 32 S&W Black Powder Manufactured by Savage Arms Corporation. This box has 1918 hand written on it."
Doug, I see no indication that Savage produced/sold black powder revolver rounds till the1923 ad. The red box ammo is the only listed and it was dropped when production switched to USCCo.
Just looked through pricelists also. No black powder handgun cartridges until the Jan 2, 1923 pricelist. I checked 1920/1921/1922.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Some more boxes. Bullet boxes and a very scarce Savage primer tin. Also some original 303 savage with paper patched bullets including a UMC salesman dummy.
Question on the primers: Are the individual primers marked? I have two boxes but neither is open. Wondering if they have a "S" stamp?
For those that might not know what they are looking at... bullet boxes, Savage Red Oil bottles, primer box, 2 packs of Savage toy rifle balls and a Savage desk sign. Partial ammo boxes at very top.
1st box has no label and is reported to be a House Brand box sold to Sears...? 2nd is a later (22HP) Corporation box. 3rd, this is the back of the box. I think this is the first Company box. Between the Repeating Arms and the later Moose Horn.
box
1st, Repeating Arms box 2nd (303) and the 3rd (32-40 HP) have same labels except the 303 says not to be reloaded while the 32-40 (production 1904 and later) says it can be reloaded.
Backs of the above
Ends of the above
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
From the left the 4 designs you will find on the two piece boxes: Repeating Arms, no end seal 2nd is Company marked 3rd, I have this seal on both Company and Corperation marked boxes. 4th is on later Corperation boxes.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
Early box I had.. With the headstamp of UMC 303 S.R.A.Co along with label saying it's loaded with the Savage brand of smokeless powder, I always presumed this was ammunition made by UMC for Savage Arms to sell in the 1895-1897 timeframe?
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
That's one of the nice things about collecting Savage. There is always something to learn and the more you dig the more you realize you have a long way to go.
I bought a 2nd edition of Zimmermans ammo book when it was published. I had some early boxes and a lot of early catalogs, an area he was lacking a lot of info on. I asked him of he wanted some help filling in the blanks. I did the best I could at piecing the early years together. Sent info and photos and it wasn't long till the 3rd revision was out. I'm still learning. Everytime I look through the printing I find something that needs tweaking. That keeps it interesting.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
I also have this box, tho mine is in worse shape. Almost totally identical, except mine is labeled FOR 303 SAVAGE MINIATURE on the side label inside the cartridge, no mention of "METAL CASED". The 1897 catalog lists two miniature loads, one with lead and one lead with metal cover. So I have to presume our boxes date to the same timeframe, just different loads.
But I'm not sure if they are cartridges sold thru Savage Arms? Like yours, I think my label shows UMC 303 SRACo on the headstamp, but also like yours the actual headstamp on the cartridges is UMC 303 SAV. No S.R.A.CO. I wonder if it wasn't UMC ammunition that they just didn't update the label picture for. My box says it's loaded with SPECIAL SMOKELESS POWDER, not SAVAGE BRAND SMOKELESS POWDER - but I'm not sure if any miniature bullet boxes say SAVAGE BRAND SMOKELESS POWDER?
Originally Posted by wyo1895
1895 box of miniature cartridges top end open box with a loaded miniature round
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Rory, I agree. I think both miniatures are UMC, sold by UMC and not made for Savage. SRA excited only about 3 years and Savage was loading / selling under their own name, SRA, before the Repeating was dropped. It's my understanding that Savage used the square cornered box while UMC used the round cornered box.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
I was thinking the same thing on the rounded corner vs square cornered boxes. It'd be nice to find UMC catalogs for 1895 and 1896.
Could Savage have been basically handloading their own cartridges with all 3rd party components by 1897? Enough to meet demand for 5000 rifle owners? I suppose so, they didn't have anything resembling a plant to make primers, brass or metal jacketed bullets. Could have been..
I wouldn't look at UMC as the main source for components.. obscure source tells me they were getting most primers from a company named Waterbury by later 1897. Probably "Waterbury Brass Co." of Waterbury, CT. They mostly did brass wire/fiittings, but an ad I find for Waterbury Brass in 1897 says they are selling Hicks and Berdan primers and the company is listed as an Arms & Ammunition company in 1897 magazines. Maybe they made the brass for Hicks & Berdan primers also? Or maybe Savage just bought Hicks or Berdan primers through Waterbury and called them "Savage" primers?
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Don't think I've seen these before. The patch bullets are interesting. So is the UMC dummy. Good stuff!
Originally Posted by matt13
Some more boxes. Bullet boxes and a very scarce Savage primer tin. Also some original 303 savage with paper patched bullets including a UMC salesman dummy.
Forgot I had this. Early UMC round cornered box. Full, but it's about half and half UMC 303 SAV headstamps, and UMC 303 SRACo headstamps. The SRACo headstamped ammo has quite a bit of corrosion.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Not half and half.. 16 are SRACo, and are all Savage No. 1 I think - lead with full metal cover. Could be No. 3's I suppose, black powder with full metal covered bullet. Bet they're No 1 tho. 4 are UMC and all are expanding, two have the U on the primer.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
There was a 303 Savage #5, there was a 32-40 #5, there was a 38-55 #5, etc.
So an early 303 Savage #5 cartridge would be a Paper Patched Schuetzen Target Cartridge (1903 catalog), but a 32-40 or 38-55 #5 cartridge would be a black powder cartridge (1907).
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
The rarest I had but was bought by Fugg and was the 308 in I think 110 grain? Or was it 120?
I think Savage only made a few cases and I had a box in mint shape.
Post a pic Fugg??
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
I have a box yellow with blue lines marked Gambles Airways 190 grain 303 Savage guess these were sold through Gambles stores. Tops gone but a different looking box.
interesting, I have a 1957 vintage 99F that was sent to Winchester. It has a lot of documentation and appears to be in unfired condition. The guy I bought it from thought Win. had gotten it to test 308 ammo.
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
This is one of many Winchester test rifles for savage ammo.
Never really thought about it, but it sure makes sense to test manufactured ammo on some sort of time basis. Must mean there a lot of test guns past and present. ??
Very nice. Great for getting a number out to so, or to document or picture. Lot less running back and forth. Fill up the cart, wheel it over, do your work..
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
For you RAS your 308-110 grain bullet ammo and others
Awesome. Thanks Fugg for posting those 110 grain boxes. How rare are they???
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
Savage always sold their ammo boxed or unboxed. Unboxed was sold by the thousand increments. The following are the boxes savage provided along with the dividers for customers to box ammo themselves. By buying by the thousand and stuffing your own boxes the ammo was cheaper.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Savage always sold their ammo boxed or unboxed. Unboxed was sold by the thousand increments. The following are the boxes savage provided along with the dividers for customers to box ammo themselves. By buying by the thousand and stuffing your own boxes the ammo was cheaper.
Is that stated in print somewhere? Those are 1955 or later. I thought they were unused boxes that someone took home. Have you seen a crate marked as not boxed ammo?
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!
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