Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Utah DWR takes away scopes from Muzzleloaders

Then folks would be on here complaining about conspiracies with the game department, spending tax dollars when hunters could take care of the problem.

Yep.

But liability issues probably take president over sporting concerns.

DF

Confederate and Union snipers were taking out personnel at a half mile during the Civil War using scopes. How much more primitive do we have to get? That was 158 years ago.

You have the responsibility to make a clean accurate shot. A scope allows this. Sabots, pellets, BH 209, and 209' primers all enhance accuracy and reliability. Why is this outlawed? To make it more difficult? Really? That's your argument? Do you want to set up for equipment failure, or perhaps wounding an animal? These restrictions are not carried out in the other seasons. You can use Carbon fiber arrows, and compound bows with letoff percentages that Fred Bear would kill for. Centerfire seasons are pretty much minimum caliber and go.

Careful with that logic.

Bureaucrats know better.

DF

Interesting theory except one forgotten point, 99% of the populace couldn’t afford a scope in 1860.

I personally like having the more restrictive "primitive" rules, but I don't really have a problem with states going the other way either.

I don't get the complaints some have on hunting regulations being based on hunter preferences rather than studies or data. Aside from the regulations that deal specifically with safety pretty much all of the other regulations are based on somebodies' opinion of what constitutes fair chase. As long as the game commissions are representing their constituencies, I'd say things are operating as they should be. Of course, that's a separate issue.

I feel that the ones that always pollute these threads with their bullchit anti-crossbow and anti-scope stuff are probably barely hunting anymore due to age. The same fuggers that have bitched and cried about Sunday hunting here in PA. They fight any change. Why is it so bad to give more people a chance at getting into the woods and killing game? If you want to pretend your living in the 1800s, then have at it. Stop ruining opportunity for other hunters to get out and use the equipment they chose to use. If over harvest is the issue, then cut tags back. Its not hard. Why do some of you fight so hard to turn people away from our great sport?

How would that be good? Many more wounded animals form using equipment that was never designed to offer quick, efficient kills? F uck is wrong with some of you

I would much rather have limits on technology myself.

Eta: Hard to draw tags is what got us here IMO.

JMHO- I wouldn't be upset with a "season " like
others have posted. Season open- use what you
have. I've always wanted to spear a deer myself
ever since I saw a video of it, but I'd have to go
out of state.

I'm pretty much of the opinion of
Hunt your own hunt and let me hunt mine

A lot of what I see in my region is big antlers
to post online or decorate the office or living
room. That's fine with me if that's your goal.
Just leave me be and let me kill my little cull
and fill my freezer bags and make my sausage.
I'd be just as happy if all the deer were built
like nilgai with a dozer sized body and minimal
headgear. It'd be a shame to have to buy extra
freezer bags

In this state crossbows were supposed to be a way for folks that couldn’t pull a standard bow due to medical issues. Cool, bow hunters bitched, whined and cried as usual that they should be able to use them too. Morphed a good thing to just another cheat. Same with ML, started out as primitive weapon and people bitched, whined and cried they couldn’t get close enough and needed to use scopes other than 1X. People are not satisfied with opportunities to hunt, they want as big of an advantage as possible.

Now as far a ruining or trying to turn people away it’s not the opportunity it’s azzwipes like I saw at the gun club. New deer hunter trying to sight in his rifle, laying the barrel on the rest having trouble in the meantime 5 people stood there snickering, not 1 iota of help. That’s what’s killing this sport. Dwindling opportunity, high cost and azz holes not willing to help. They do bitch real good though.

Taking irresponsible shots and wounding more critters very possibly does result from equipment restrictions, but it is also a different discussion.

If the answer was simply to cut back tags, people in some western states may never get a chance to hunt their home state. Ever. Effective management techniques for whitetail in Pennsylvania generally doesn’t work for mule deer, elk, etc. in the open areas and habitat of the west.

All these boutique seasons are BS anyway. Ought only be 1 season for whatever critter. Shoot what you like.

Bad Idea

Elmer Keith used scope for the vast majority of his hunting and actually invented the .338 Lapua long before Lapua. It was the .338 KT and it was for long range elk shooting in scoped rifles.

The above shows how hard this discussion can be when so many simply don't understand the situation or the demand for Western Trophy Game.

Primative seasons such as archery or MLs allow more hunters to hunt due to lower success rates. We are losing hunters overall and that means fewer voters care about keeping hunting alive and well.

As tech increases the success rates in the primative seasons increase, which is not sustainable for keeping high trophy quality. Muzzle loaders should have much less reach than a modern scoped rifle and that is why those seasons can offer more hunting oppourtunity but less success.

At what point does technology in archery and rifle need to be addressed?

Colorado has no problems selling every tag they offer. They like most of the western states have so many restrictions that you almost need to be a law school graduate to comply with the regs. Buy a big game license in Virginia and you have tags for several speices, can hunt any public land in the state, and they don't really care what you use, as long as your properly licensed. Seems to work fine there.

I find it ironic for the man who posts videos of a girl shooting elk at extended ranges with a 243 is all about having a weapon that was fine in the 1700's.

I’m patiently waiting for the scoped atlatl season to open up.

I’d be willing to bet VA has higher deer density than many western states, less pressure and way different dynamics due to private land levels, etc. than most western states. That, and whitetails can be hunted way harder than mule deer with less effect on the population. It is just their phenology.

Unfortunately, your comparison is apples to oranges. Whitetail, bear and turkeys out west are managed more closely to how they are in the east but high profile western only species like mule deer simply can’t be managed in the same way.

Colorado has primative seasons and you are correct those tags are in high demand because those tags offer oppourtunity but less success.

No magnified optic on muzzle loaders in CO so exactly what are you arguing?

Some of you think there is an unlimited supply of older age class trophy game out west but the demand far outstrips the supply and getting worse every year.

It just another example of those who don't understand to think an antlerless hunt in a unit well over carrying objective is the same as a trophy hunt in limited access units.