Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters REMARMS ANNOUNCEMENT ANOTHER SAD DAY IN THE EMPIRE STATE

Absolutely I've seen steps in "automation" over the years that have raised both quality and productivity

I'm not the windbag, you are. Never claimed to be big and important but you sure puffed your chest out. Simply said I've also worked in the industry and there are plenty of other places where gun companies can establish production without having to put up with the NYS bullshyte. Amazing how all the companies that have dumped those North East states are doing even better in more gun friendly locales? According to you, if the workers elsewhere were so lazy and incompetent, they would be out of business, no?

I know exactly how much entry level assemblers were getting paid because they were, and are, not much more than parts assemblers, same way that fry flippers at McDonalds are. Ergo, they make entry level wages. If skilled, 1911 'smiths were getting paid less than Home Depot or Aldi workers, that's THEIR fault for putting up with it. End of conversation. No-one forced them to work at that business, no-one forced them to settle for low wages, they chose that pay and those conditions. Cry me a river and get over yourself. Self important arrogant clowns like you are the precisely the reason I choose to lurk more than post.

If you consider hand checkering the same as flipping burgers you're even dumber than I originally thought and that puts you in the same category as a possum. I never puffed myself up to be important, that would be you. I simply stated the facts of the matter. Like I said the people who worked there did so because they wanted to work with guns. There aren't many places to do that compared to many other occupations. They would have made a lot more money for less demanding work if they'd gotten jobs somwhere else. Obviously some people can't handle the truth.

That makes a lot of sense. Before I retired my company began relocating offices and staff from company-owned properties to commercial space, leaving space in the fortress-like locations available for telephone equipment, which requires substantial structures and lots of air conditioning and power. They also began contracting out vehicle maintenance. Force reductions were handled by really generous separation bonuses and retirement incentives.

Taxes and the hostile legal climate had to be big factors as well. Anyone know if they offered jobs in GA to the old employees?

Remington didn't want to relocate employees when they bought Marlin and look what a fiasco that turned out to be. The fact is, mamagement tends to think any clown can put guns together and that it requires little knowledge or skill. The fact is, even with CNC there is still a lot of tweaking this, filing that, bending something else, switching out parts {due to tolerance stacking} to make things function as they should and that can only be learned and done quickly and well through experience. There may be exceptions with guns made to looser tolerances where they can be snapped together like a puzzle and function correctly but apparently Remington had to learn Marlin levers weren't it.

If any American manufacturing concern (to include arms makers) would hope to successfully compete against the price point of Asiatic competition (quality thereof being a different topic) all avenues of streamlining/automation must be investigated and adopted. If that entails abandoning the building too because of it being woefully adaptable to the new processes, then so be it - nostalgia be damned. That's been part and parcel in American industry for over 100 years. I doubt Ford would be where/who they are today if they had stubbornly tried to make their 1920-vintage Detroit Model T factory viable through the decades of evolution of the automobile.

Automation and taking the skilled human factor out is precisely why most of what you buy today is a cheap pile of steaming shyt and you end up sending half of it back because it doesn't work. The fact is, people like to bitch a storm about the low quality of Chinese goods but they don't want to pay the skilled American worker it would take to make a better product a decent wage either.

My hunting partner told of his firm buying Chinese parts. The first ones were well made, but later to ones weren't. The Chinese I have worked with had an attitude of what can I get away with. They certainly aren't alone in that.

Apparently reading and comprehension are what limited your ability to earn a decent wage. Go back and re-read what I said, not what you think I said. "Entry level assemblers" ring a bell dummkopf? I don't class checkering stocks in that category but as with buggy whip makers, machinery, including lasers and CNC have made checkering workers nigh on obsolete except for high end work.

Oh, you've made it abundantly clear that you consider yourself to be the smartest guy in the room. Again, they CHOSE to work where they did; crying about how poorly paid they were isn't the "truth," it's simply whining. The victimhood mentality you have is clear to all who read your drivel. The core focus of a business is to make money. Without making a profit, they can't stay in business, and labor is a significant cost to the business. Ergo, the need to balance profits over the cost of labor. Choosing to gloss over the multiple issues that the old Remington plant and NYS suffers from in terms of running a profitable firearms business, and blame the relocation of Remington to a lower cost, more gun friendly state on "union busting" is willfully ignorant.

It gets more complicated if you have investors who are demanding a return on their investment vs one person ownership. Personally, I preferred to treat my employees well, paying them above market, providing good benefits, working conditions, treating them with respect, and a pleasant working environment. Most of them reciprocated by working hard and taking ownership of issues, rather than thinking of themselves as wage slaves. Not all companies recognize that their employees are their greatest asset. Whiny biatches like you are a perfect example of what entitled employees look like.

A vicious circle that. Personal compromises in the "quality vs. junk" game are most often driven by how much one has in his wallet. Not everybody can afford a delectable hand built/fitted rifle built by well paid highly skilled craftsmen. Innovation in the form of digitally controlled manufacturing is the only thing allowing said compromises to be palatable to we common folks, in terms of skewing the compromise toward "quality".

By paying workers higher and higher wages we only fuel overall inflation because products become more expensive and said wages become less valuable, and on top of that incentive for highly paid entry-level workers to improve themselves goes away and stagnation sets in and quality craftsmanship goes out the window. See what I mean about a vicious circle?

Remington should've abandoned that wreck of a facility a generation ago. Had they done that they might not be in the shape they're in today.

It ain't 1950 anymore.

Aside from political ramifications (which leave an acrid taste on my tongue when it comes to anything "Made in China") I have to agree with that sentiment. A guy I know who traveled to China to investigate the possibility of them providing optical lenses told me that a Chinese engineer told him bluntly that if he wanted world-class quality he had to insist on it and refuse anything less - and to stick to his guns. Otherwise, he was told, he would get crap - from the same company, and at the same cost.

This. I believe that having a college diploma "was better and more in demand" than age and experience. College was their "leadership program". It was like "you have a 4 year degree and now you are in charge". You have zero experience but you are the boss. How's that working out for America ?

I grew up with so many former military guys. They just knew what had to be done and got it done. Most didn't even bother to get their high school diplomas because the Army paid better than working on a farm or in dad's shop. Even though they had the GI Bill to fall back on they didn't see the advantage of college to experience and mentoring by the WWI or WWII guys. The Army, Navy or Marines were their Master's program and they got their PHD from "the guy who has been in this shop since Christ was a pup".

Remington got into trouble because those college boys were buying and selling companies based on the product those who learned under the masters were creating out of raw materials and sending out to the consumers. Those college boys were getting fat while the company was getting ignored and raped, including the employees. Eventually the consumers stopped buying their products because they were junk.

The college boys didn't care. They got their piece of the pie and then sold the company to one of their Harvard buddies who was trying to squeeze out 5 years of raping the company then he would pass it on to some sucker who only wanted to rape the company for 5 more years.

I hope someone has broken that chain and Remington can go back to being the company they once were. Good products going out the door and employees who can earn a living wage.

kwg

I'm not sure Remington name is even going to survive . How many new Oldsmobiles have you seen lately ? That was a name that dated back to the 19th century.

At the end of the day does it even matter if the name survives? I'll betcha there were a lot of guys who gnashed their teeth over the disappearance of the original Sharps, Ballards, Ross, Stevens(before being absorbed by Savage and promptly run into the sewers), et al - but now 100 years later it's forgotten about. Not to mention the Marlin, Winchester, Remington we all knew and loved in our youths. Times change, sh*t happens, the world doesn't shift on its axis, and life goes on.

Six dollars an hour sure as hell was an entry level wage in 1993 you stupid sunofabitch. Geesus talk about a lack of comprehension. It also went right over your fuucking pointy little head that Glock and Sig weren't paying better in the 2018 time frame given the difference in cost of living in their respective locales. The whole fuucking point for you stupid bastards is that gun making in general is not a lucrative proposition and without union representation like the work force at Remington had even less so. There's no fuuckin way a dumb bastard like you was ever bright enough to have run a company so you're nothing but a damn liar.

I wish the two of you would just scissor and get it over with.

Remington has been dead to me after they ran out of 1917 actions to make the Model 30 Express. In 1962 they became a manufacturer that just happened to build guns, since blenders, toasters and cake mixers was already covered. By the 1980's they had created another industry...aftermarket parts to make their rifles actually work...5 million 700's later, they are still struggling. The Remington 770 story is amusing...unless you bought one, the RP9 pistol was less amusing...but in reality few people were actually injured, mostly they just wouldn't function...but the best was the battery operated EtronX rifle/ammo debacle...now that's comedy gold.

A lot of hand work/fitting went into guns being built when we were young and average working Joe could afford them. The evidence of hand fitting of parts and hand polishing is clearly evident when taking apart a pre 64 Winchester 94 for instance or even a JM Marlin produced right up until Remington took over. The economy grade rifles of today like Savage Axis and Ruger American may be more accurate but they're cheaply made disposable junk in comparison.

They also made the best looking and best feeling bolt gun I ever saw too

Different owners now, hopefully different higher management. Maybe they’re smart enough to bring some experienced workers along.