Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Do you like the new 'modernized' cartridges?

Don't like where we're going. It's no wonder there's a reloading, ammo shortage all time. Just think how many primers and powder be wasted this week alone, testing all the new 6, 6.5's super poopers!
All I need and want, is my 22 squirrel rifles, 30-30, 30-06, and if I needed more I'd get a 300win mag. Then, when I gotta shoot, I shoot, don't think! I gotta a 270, and I thought wow. Now, for me, I think, who needed a 270 when I got an 06! If I hunted the west, I might need it, but not in reality! But if you like a 270, then you don't need an 06.
But all the pencil calibers from disposable rifles? Useless! Shooting world & industry, is driving shooters insane!

F uck no.

I am definitely a #4. I have a small selection of rifles that leans towards the classics that I developed a nostalgic fondness for while reading Field & Stream and Outdoor Life as a kid. The majority of my calibers are over 100 years old with the only recent one for my AR-15:

1889 - 303 British
1892 - 275 Rigby
1894 - 6.5x55
1904 - 405 Winchester
1905 - 9.3x74r
1906 - 30-06 Springfield
1912 - 375 H&H
1955 - 44 Magnum
1956 - 458 Win Mag
2018 - 300 HAM'R

Most of my selections reflect the fact that the shooting I do is at moderate ranges. Everything I hunt with is adequate for my needs. But I definitely don't begrudge anyone enjoying the latest improvements in cartridge designs. Especially if it has a tangible benefit over an older cartridge. My only mild annoyance is when you can only find ammo or supplies for the latest whiz bang cartridge of the month but no production is being devoted to some of the classics that I like. I don't complain about it because for some of the more obscure cartridges, I knew what I was getting myself into when I bought the rifle. As a right-hander who shoots left, the selection of rifles & associated calibers is smaller & some of my choices reflect that. I just buy what makes me happy & I let others do the same.

PS - The next rifle I acquire will probably be a fast & flat varmint type rifle in the 22-250 range. For it, I'm seriously considering something new & improved. Maybe something with the letters ARC somewhere in its designation.

Sure. Only have a couple, but they have real advantages that I appreciate. Still have an ‘06, a couple .270s and .308s, and .223s, that continue to do good work and aren’t going anywhere. I avoid old-timers that are troublesome to keep fed, and don’t expect companies to keep producing ammo that will sit on dealer shelves for years waiting for Uncle Ferdie to finally burn through the box he bought back in ‘86. When I “adopt” a cartridge, I secure sufficient supplies of what it consumes and keep my eye out for more as I use it. I never assume it’s going to always be there whenever I want it.

A few more comments:

As I have recently pointed out elsewhere, including in "antique" magazines actually printed on paper, one of the major reasons for the recent shortages of brass for certain chamberings is that ever since self-contained brass cartridges became pretty much standard over 150 years ago is there's been a constant parade of "new" cartridges.

This continues to happen even today, mostly because modern, smokeless-powder rifles don't wear out very easily (and the part that primarily wears out is the barrel, which can be replaced). This can also be true for old black-powder cartridges if the rifles are taken care of, such as my .50-70 trapdoor Springfield mentioned earlier, which was made the year after the end of the War Between the States.

But today's rifle manufacturers (like most manufacturers) are in it to make money, and one of the ways they can continue to sell new rifles is introducing new cartridges. In fact, over 50 centerfire rifle cartridges have been introduced in the U.S. since 2000. Some of them have small advantages over pre-2000 cartridges, while others were obviously designed to sell more rifles--including the "follow-the-leader" short/fat/beltless magnums, whether WSMs, SAUMS and RCMs.

It's also a fact that ammunition factories can only produce so many cartridge cases. Each time they produce another run of a certain cartridge they have to change tooling, since they don't have the space or money to have a complete set-up for making, say, .25-35 WCF cases. So cartridges like the .25-35 (or .30-40 Krag, whatever traditional round some of still like to handload and hunt with) get produced "seasonally," and these days the seasons are spaced farther apart. This is also partly because cartridge brass has been becoming more expensive during the recent past, because there are so many cartridges and more military demand.

In the meantime yes, cartridge companies will produce more of the more popular rounds, whether .30-06s or 6.5 Creedmoors, because they keep selling. So no, the current "shortage" of less-popular cartridges probably isn't temporary, and may even get worse.

When I decided to downsize my rifle collection over the past few years, due to "semi-retiring" more and more, the rifles I tended to sell off were some kept on hand simply because they were chambered for cartridges magazine editors wanted me to write about every couple-three years. Eventually I ended up with about half the number of rifles I'd formerly owned, and while some are chambered for post-2000 rounds such as the 6.5 PRC (which has become one of my favorite hunting rifles), most are chambered for much older rounds.

In fact there are some duplicates, such as two .30-06s, two .270 Winchesters, and two .308 Winchesters, partly because they're different types of rifles. The .30-06s are my NULA Model 24 and Griffin & Howe 1903 Springfield. The .270s are another NULA and a Jack O'Connor Winchester Model 70 Tribute, and the .308s a Merkel K1 single-shot and a Husqvarna target rifle made in the 1960s, which weighs about twice as much as the Merkel. But the other reason for owning those pairs is it's far easier even today to find brass for those three rounds, which isn't always true of some other rifles that did essentially the same things in the field, but are much harder to find cases for.

The rifles I still own that are chambered for less popular rounds, such as the .50-70 trapdoor and my pair of drillings in 6.5x57R and 8x57JRS, are easy on brass--and I don't lose their cases when hunting, which sometimes happens when ejecting empties from repeaters, since they're single-shot rifles rather than repeaters. (The ejector still works fine on the .50-70, but the drillings only have extractors.)

All of this is also why I eventually quit buying .222 Remingtons and .280 Ackley Improveds (have had several of each). While its pretty easy to make those cases from others, I'd rather shoot rifles than make brass, the reason for having more than one .223 Remington, and .270s, .30-06s and .308s--rather than rifles where brass is only produced "seasonally," and has become increasingly expensive.

I too am doing some downsizing. And like Mule Deer, I am trying to keep some of the more commonly available rounds which along with various components, are becoming more of an issue to acquire.

I have recently considered getting back into one of the creedmores, likely the 6.5. Reason being, they are nice, light recoiling medium game rifles and the factory loads and components are very available,,currently. But for how long?
And that troubles me.

So back to thinning the herd and I will likely just keep the tried and true and “mostly” available rounds.
223,280,308,30-06,338-06 and 9.3x62 to name a few. The 280 and 338-06 are of the most concern, but I do have a pretty good stash of components.
Time will tell.
Les

i reload and use cast bullets mostly. i have a 1972 Winchester m94 in 35/30-30 (JES Reboring). also, i have over 100 cases in 35/30-30 Starline brass. i have shot 14 or 15 times, no anneal and there still going strong. i think I've trimmed the 35/30-30 twice? the first was after i shot it to make the 35/30-30 and twice, i think it was 9 or 10 firings. i don't use a max load either. a 200gr RCBS FN GC with 2400/tuft of Dacron that goes 1726fps. i have killed 2 doe and 1 buck, 25ish yards is for both doe, 53 yards for the buck. the deer will JOG, not run, about 15 - 20 yards, then it will stand around and fall.


i have a TC Contender in 10" barrels with 30 and 357 Herrett. i have 100 pieces each of 30-30 Starline brass made into the 30 and 357 Herrett. i have 3 firings on the 30 Herrett and none on the 357 Herrett.

i gave away my other 30-30 brass (Remington, Federal, Winchester...) to my yougest son for his Savage m340.

i had buttloads of '06 mixed cases. i reform them to 7.65x53, 7x57, 8x57, 9.3x57, 270 Winchester and a couple of more. i'm glad i bought the Harbor Freight mini chop saw because brass is still hard to find. i got '06 galore.

the only thing i need is the 30 Remington. i have around 100 cases of 30 Rem Grafs brass. if i buy another 400 cases then i am set.

Agree 100% Mule Deer. Of course we all have our guilty pleasure cartridges but like the example you used of the .222 vs. .223, it is pointless to wait for the seasonal runs of the oddballs when we could be shooting something widely available everywhere.

These shortages, for certain, will be perpetually effecting us to varying degrees going forward.

6.5 SM "Super Mouser"... maybe a 7mm SEI "Super Elephant Improved" ???

Call me a crumudgeon but I favor the classics. I think my most modern/newest caliber is a Cooper Varmint Extreme in 25WSSM. The smartest thing I did when I bought the rifle was to buy 1000 Winchester cases.
Gun companies continue to re invent the wheel in order to attract new shooters or to entice current shooters to try the newest and latest cartridge. No thanks, the Grendel I'll stick with my 250 Savage, the 300 WSM is just the 300 H&H reconfigured in my opinion and I'll keep my H&H thank you. The 6.5 Creedmore can't do anything that my 6.5X55 can't do. A couple of other oldies but goodies I favor are the 300 Savage and the 38-55 both of my rifles are custom builds on single shot actions. I won't be selling my 257 Roberts, 405 Win, 7X57's or the 358 Win any time soon.
It's not broke so I'm not going tp try to fix it and I have enough componets to keep me and my classics on the range and in the field fo a very long time.

It can, and it does. Maybe not for you, but yes for a large part of the market.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, that 300 Savage of yours is extremely nice. Even though it's old, I find the 300 Savage to be a modernized cartridge. 30 degree shoulder, little body taper, size optimized to take advantage of new (at the time) propellants to approximate the ballistics of an older, larger cartridge. One of my favorite rifles is my 700 Classic so chambered.

I have nothing against the modern stuff but the old classic calibers have always done the job for me, and if it ain't broke don't fix it. For a long time I just deer hunted with whatever I happened to grab on the way out the door, mostly .243, .308 and .270, and they all worked just fine. The last several years though I've grown to favor the 7mm-08 with a 120gr TTSX, Absolutely deadly combination for whitetails. I did buy a 6.5 Creedmoor a few years back just to see what all the hype was about, I liked it ok but didn't think it was anything special. Someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse and it went down the road.

The 7-08 is the new 7X57 and I'm not knocking it. I have 2 7-08's and 3 7X57's. Another one that gets no love today is the 6MM Remington. I just bought a Browning B78 so chambered and thanks to members here I have dies, bullets and enough brass to last a long time.
Mathman I believe you have the right rifle in mind regarding the 300 Savage. I sold my 700 classic which was a great rifle when the single shot build was completed.

Two of my favorites that I own and shoot are the 300 and 338 RCM’s. The rifle Ruger built to shoot these rounds had as much to do, if not more, with me liking it
20 inch barrel, factory iron sights, and a stock with a 1/2 inch shorter LOP makes for a perfect rifle for hunting big game in thick stuff.
Another relative newby is the 6.5-300 Weatherby. I do not own one but plan to within the next few months. Weatherby does a great job making sure brass and ammo is readily available for most of their chamberings.

I just like cartridges/chamberings that "work". Whether older or newer means nothing to me. They are just tools. Just because something is new, doesn't mean it is better. Just because something has been around 100 years doesn't mean it's better.

When a "new" cartridge comes out, many of us get caught up in the mindset "I don't know why they just didn't standardize the 28 Proton which has been around since the 50s" as opposed to "I'm glad somebody finally came to their senses and standardized this by a different name". Rifle people are nuts, myself included. The moment I find myself emotionally tied to some rifle cartridge because either it's what my grandpa used or because it is the newest thing is the day I need to take up needlepoint instead.

Heck, looking back, they were all new to me at one time.

I will stick with the 308 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 6.5x55 Swede, 9.3x62 and 375 H&H. Never found them lacking and they are all over 50 years old with the 7mm being the youngster at 51.

YES Do I like modern? As a carpenter I used know said "No Hell No."

Sometimes it comes down to the rifle. A Ruger No. 1 for instance. Being it’s a classic style rifle and action length is a nonissue. 6.5CM or 300 WSM would seem off to me. I’d rather have it chambered for 6.5x55 or 300 H&H.

If I were buying an all weather bolt action rifle I’d rather have the shorter actions, more efficient cases and modern factory ammo of rifles chambered in 6.5CM or 300 WSM.

61 actually... a year younger than me.

I like things that work. Belts are useless, but no big deal to workaround either. From the ground up, a lot of "modernized" cartridges are just right from the starting gate. How is that a bad thing?

30* shoulders, minimum taper, beltless, twisted correctly from the factory - the CM's and PRC's are at the top of the new heap, and for the sure the 6.5CM is here to stay.

I just see them as marketing.
A cartridge case should be designed to cycle flawlessly. The industry had alteady achieved that pretty well and for a long, long time.
I don't see doing it, but any of the oldies can manage a faster twist barrel, duplicating any of the new short/fats.
I don't even understand the thrill of the" dull thud "on iron at 800 yards.
Why doesn't positional shooting create the same buzz? As a hunter, this practice improves his skills.
My little old opinion.