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Well he was going to die anyway, so there's no sacrifice. He didn't have much of a say in the matter anyway - his mother's rapist wanted him dead.

Nobody expected no body. Christianity didn’t begin in Genesis. Christianity didn’t begin because somebody read something. It began because some people saw something. Christianity began on the morning that Jesus rose from the dead. The uniqueness of Christianity is that it’s rooted in history ~ in an event. The event of the resurrection was the beginning of Christianity.

Christianity doesn’t hang in the balance of whether 66 different books can be proven to be true. Christianity hangs on a single event. The apostle Paul summed up the significance of this fact when he declared, “And if Jesus hasn’t been raised from the dead, then all Christian preaching is useless and so is all Christian faith.”

It all rises and falls on the death and resurrection of Jesus. Period. If He rose from the dead ~ GAME ON…! And if He didn’t ~ then it’s all a waste of time.

You are basing your belief on what the ancients wrote. Which were written decades after the described events, with no way to determine what really happened. Something that is not easy with events that happen in this day and age, vested interests, bias, poor reporting, etcetera.

Well the story relies on a fall from grace, and continuing evil of man, but yeah, I'd say a waste of time of serious consideration.

Don't forget, Jesus was The Fourth Man in the fire.

I do understand what you said.

It makes sense to me that a more proper approach prevails from and anchors to the event of the resurrection rather than the authority of ‘the Bible’. That’s NOT sayin’ that the Bible doesn’t have any authority. The way the world got the Bible started with an event, and some eyewitnesses documented the life of Jesus, and those documents were copied and collected, and the Old Testament (the Law and the Prophets) became sacred to the early ekklesia because they realized that it pointed to Jesus, and it all eventually got put together in the 4th century.

When somebody predicts their own death and resurrection…and pulls it off…I’m gonna go along with whatever that person says. That’s the anchor of an approach that makes sense to me. Because it draws people back to the foundation of the event, that launched a movement, that eventually brought us ‘the Bible’.

Good Friend Antlers, Have a Blessed Celebration of the birth of our Savoir.

Pity then that has never happened. Jesus was just another failed apocalyptic.

Meh, just another flagrantly wrong opinion from one who cannot see.

It really surprises me (not really) that so many people with such strong opinions of Christianity are so obviously ignorant of the true facts surrounding both Jesus and the New Testament.

Be interesting to hear the non believers theories of the origins of the universe and life. I bet it’s EXTREMELY believable LOL!

“True facts?” There are those that cannot contemplate the existence of both a physical universe and a non-corporeal universe.

They try….try….to choose not to see nor acknowledge the existence of a “non-physical” world.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4. NLT

“If the Good News we preach is veiled from anyone, it is a sign that they are perishing. Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don’t understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.”

The Good News is that the blind man may yet see that glory and have the infilling of Jesus.

You can break through the blindness!

Seek ….honestly ……and find. Don’t seek and don’t find.

See the experience of the thief on the cross…. Acknowledged his sin….saw his need forgiveness…saw Jesus in true light….then simply asked Jesus to remember him.


Now, a special note for those who may be offended by my posts and have let me know it….Good! I am glad that you are reading them…… but if someone doesn’t care for what I say, you can protect yourself from offense by not clicking on Christian themed threads… or putting me on ignore.

A Blessed Christmas to all!

You do realize that 15 cubits is only 21 feet. That ain't much of a mountain!

Now, I know as well as most that the story of Noah's Flood is myth, much older than the story of Genesis, handed down through many societies and civilizations. But I do not see this argument as the one to refute it.

The best arguments against a flood which covered the world some 4500 years ago:
1: The great Salt Lake is still salty. A flood would have washed away the accumulated salt.
2: The salt water fisheries of the world did not go extinct, as they would have if there was a sudden inundation of fresh water.
3: Fresh water fishes did not go extinct as they would have if the oceans suddenly enveloped all the fresh water rivers and lakes.

Sure, we can see lots of evidence of periodic catastrophic localized flooding. There is strong evidence of much flooding across the globe as the glacial ice sheets melted. Look at the Washington Scablands created from the periodic emptying of Lake Missoula from Montana into the Pacific as an example. But that was happening millennia before the Biblically reported creation of Adam.

Now, here's a post I can sink my teeth into.


Yes, there are more than a few of us. Non-corporeal equates to non-existent equates to a figment of imagination. All things within the universe must conform to the laws of Physics within that universe.

We are conceived.
We are born.
We learn and develop a mind.
A soul is defined as a thinking cognizant mind.
We die, and that cognizance ceases to exist.
That's all there is to it. You better make you existence on this Earth a good one, because this is Heaven. There is no other.

religion floods the Earth

Ziusudra, Sumerian era, 2,150 BCE
Atrahasis, Akkadian era, 1,800 BCE
Uta-Napishti, Babylonian era, 1,300 BCE
Noah, Israel, 1,000 BCE

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Sumerian-Flood-Story

https://brewminate.com/eridu-genesis-the-sumerian-and-oldest-flood-story-in-ancient-texts/

even my religion has a flood story. do i believe it? no. it was man's way of describing of a disastrous event and it was told by many generations. supposedly, man came across the Northern Land Bridge about 30,000 years ago and they brought us the story of the flood, or Deluge. i don't how many generations before they crossed the Bridge, that they told the story.

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/native-american-legends/

More believable than a Magic Man who lives in Heaven creating the universe with a command.

The gospels give a timeline for the return of Jesus in power and glory for all to see, to judge each man according to their deeds, etc...but it didn't happen within the promised timeframe. Two thousand years pass and some still wait.

The new atheists have it wrong. It’s not as the Bible goes, so goes Christianity. It’s as Jesus goes, so goes Christianity. Christians don’t take the Gospels seriously ‘because’ they are in the Bible. Those historical documents aren’t valuable ‘because’ they are in the Bible. These extraordinary historical documents that were written in the 1st century were eventually included in the Bible ‘because’ early Christians understood their value. They were considered valuable long before there ever was ‘the Bible’.

Christians don’t take the historical New Testament documents seriously because they're in the Bible, they’re in the Bible because early Christians considered them so valuable. Once, when everybody thought it was ‘game over’ after Jesus died…something happened ~ the resurrection…and it sparked trust and confidence in Jesus, and it started a movement that eventually brought us the Bible.

These documents were written in the 1st century, they were copied and collected, and they were widely distributed by the 3rd century. Then in the early 4th century, the Emperor Diocletian sponsored state-sanctioned persecution of the Christians, and they went from home to home, gathering to gathering, holy place to holy place…banning and burning as much of this historical Christian literature as possible…and people risked their lives for these historical documents because they considered them so valuable.

As Jesus goes, Christianity goes.

What you keep neglecting to take into account is that the only information we have about Jesus comes from the gospels and Paul's letters.

Well, when I first believed, the first thing I did was read the Bible.