Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors My new 99H - a question

Bought from an auction whose pictures were poor, I crossed my fingers when I bid on this one.

Condition turned out to be good-very good, but collectors value was zero - the receiver had been drilled and tapped for scope mounts and sling swivels were installed. Nevertheless, when I picked it up, I was delighted. The bluing was very good, there was still a trace of case color on the lever and the rifling in the barrel was sharp. The rifle was light, sleek, and the sights lined up with my eye without thought. It would be a superb woods-walking rifle for deer in Mississippi.

I have never owned a rifle like this, however, so I do have some questions, if any of the campfire members would like to chip in:

1. I thought the top of the receiver ring would be inscribed with "Savage 99", but there is nothing on my rifle.

2. There are 4 holes drilled for scope bases - are they correct for Weaver bases #19 (front) and #14 (back)? I have a Burris 4x with plex reticle that I'm planning to mount with Weaver tipoff rings.

3. There is a sort of ring set into the left side of the receiver - I don't know what it's for, but it gets in the way when I carry the rifle in my left hand. Can it be easily removed? Does anyone know its purpose?

Can’t help with #1 or #2, but the ring on the left side of the receiver is a saddle ring staple.
What caliber is your gun?

The rifle looks like a later 99E Version 1 (late 1920's/early 1930's) to me rather than a 99H, but only the 1899F's had saddle ring staples.

So.. what's the serial number range?

caliber please .made between 1910 and 1919.

norm

That is certainly not an early F (SRC), it doesn't have the carbine butt stock or the short heavier barrel with bladed dovetailed front sight.

The front sight appears to be a raised ramp sight. It could be a post 1927 E (as previously stated) with an added after market staple.

The staples would hold a metal ring that could then be attached to a shoulder mounted sling. These were used mostly in the military in a time when soldiers were on horseback. If a trooper was unhorsed, his carbine came with him.

Caliber .303 Sav.

Serial #116,xxx. Year of manufacture I believe is 1911.

The front sight is a raised ramp with a dovetail for a brass bead insert. Seems to make sense that the barrel was added later.

One question remains: can the staple be easily removed?

Define easy? It certainly wouldn't be easy for me...

There may only be one question left for you, but we have to figure out what it is becasue...that is what we do.

So, with that serial number since it doesn't appear to have a carbine stock and butt plate is it a SRC with replaced wood and barrel or an H with a replaced barrel and added staple?

Yes, I'm starting to understand the insanity that comes with being a 99 owner! It's like a never-ending detective story!

Still - anyone know any 99 gunsmiths that I can ask about removing the staple? I'm certainly not hurting "collectability" by doing so.

Well, the serial number definitely places it in the timeframe for an 1899F saddle ring carbine.

But the stock has been replaced, barrel replaced, and receiver reblued similar to a later 99 matte blue.

No Savage 99 stamp is correct if the gun was made in 1911.
The barrel dates to 1927 or later with the ramp front sight.
Stock is a 99E Version 1 style stock from 1921-1934, but they could have put it together any time in the 1930's probably also. If it was factory done, it's very odd they didn't put a 99H stock on it with carbine buttplate. But maybe the owner didn't want that.

I would call it a factory refurb 1911 saddle ring carbine..

I wouldn't remove the staple, that would reduce it's value - and you can't find replacements so it'd be gone for good.


PS: The scope holes look right for standard mounts like the Weaver #14/#19, or a 1 piece Leupold.

czech, what are the serial numbers on the butt plate, butt and forearm?

+3 on not removing the staple

I'm curious about the serial on the stock.

If you remove the staple nicely, I'll buy it from you 😉

The serial number stamped on the butt stock and the butt plate match the rifle.

The forend is a bit strange. There is a 5 stamped into the wood in the barrel channel, and then if I squint very hard I think I can see a 27 next to the 5, but in a smaller font. Then VERY faintly and written in pencil is the serial number of the rifle. However, now that I'm putting the forend back on, I see the serial number of the rifle very clearly stamped on the circular portion that butts up against the receiver.

So, if I don't pull off the staple, can I at least find a ring somewhere to make it a bit more authentic?

One other thing - I don't know if it is common practice when fitting a barrel to a 99, but when the forearm is removed, you can see on the underside of the barrel that there is a clear, sharp line hammered across the junction of the barrel and the receiver. It makes me think that the barrel was removed at one time and the indentation was made to facilitate replacing the barrel and tightening it back to its exact former position.

Last one here should do the trick.. the "Saddle ring Winchester 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, 1892, 1894, 1895"

https://homesteadparts.com/shop/saddle-rings-c-87_95.html

Find yourself a short leather strip and tie it around the ring to keep it from scratching up the receiver. Like this:

Cool! That'l work!

What was the functional purpose of the saddle ring?

As far as I know, it was tied to the horse or the rider so you don't lose the rifle if you drop it. I would imagine to the rider so if your unhorsed you have your rifle, but I've heard both.

Just be aware that even with the leather on there it can still make noise but it does considerably cut it down on it.

Well that is not the standard stock/plate for a SRC. But we have seen a SRC with a rifle butt and I have a 99C with a rifle butt rather than the standard shotgun butt. Both factory.
A factory letter would confirm SCR and also the caliber may be interesting.
Does it cycle rounds ok and have you shot it yet?

If/when you do get a ring you can dull it to match the rifle finish with a light gauge steel wool.

The ring is going to make a racket when you are hunting with it. It’s going to be like carrying a bell through the woods

That is why many of the old timers either cut them off or wrapped them with rawhide.

That’s crazy that the numbers match. Another case and proof of never say never. Custom build? Or was it put together at the factory 20 years later? Letter would be interesting.

that groove in the barrel and receiver sounds like the barrel may have been a takedown barrel. Maybe the factory added the groove in the receiver when they rebarreled it. interesting rifle. I wouldn't take the ring off.

Never given a thought to the noise from a saddle ring scaring deer off

Not the best picture but you get the idea.

I believe the carbine could also be attached in a similar fashion with a similar rig directly to the horse itself when it wasn't in imminent danger of being used on the enemy.

There is a clearer copy of the same picture plus example of other uses of the ring here - /how-were-they-carried/#p46044, click on the images to blow them up.

Here's my Starr that shows marks on the stock from being carried using a carbine sling, if you ever see a gun with similar marks you'll know what its from -

I knew Gene would pull through...

Good stuff

Gene,
You should put some kind of book together. Lots of obscure, otherwise unobtainable knowledge/information for posterity

I’d be first in line for a copy

A factory letter could clear up some things.

There's always the possibility that someone in the last hundred years "touched up" that rifle.

I once "had" a SRC, but upon close inspection it became clear that someone had put it together. There were tell tale signs and it even had restamped numbers.
Once I realized that I couldn't stand to look at it. Seller refused to take it back so ran it down the road.

I would have never known.

Thanks for educating me.

The staple looks right

Thanks! Great tip!

P.S.: I haven't shot it yet. I have the brass, dies, bullets and powder, but I'm in the middle of moving to another house - it may be quite some time before I get to play with it!

That was the military carry style. Great pictures & info Gene, as always!

For civilian uses, most folks used it to tie off to their scabbard/saddle to be sure it didn't end up in the tall grass when the horse got spooked. If they used it at all.

“A Typical Trooper”???? That guy in the sketch looks to be much older than what I would envision as a “typical trooper” of the time period. Unless of course said occupation aged fellows very quickly.

.

Norm


I have a ring available

Have you ever looked at how the staples are attached . Good luck at getting them out in onw piece..
I have one gun with it cut off flush .

Norm

I have looked. Shouldn't be too difficult to drive them out from the inside.

All right, guys - I'M KEEPING THE STAPLE. And I ordered a ring from Homestead Parts.

Thanks for the mention of a ring, Norm, but I think I'm all fixed up.

I may get a factory letter as a New Years gift to myself - $75 + $5 shipping - the webpage says it'll take 5 weeks or so from the time I order it. I think it'll be really interesting to see how it started off.

glad you decided to keep the ring. I think they are cool.

All things equal, saddle ring guns command a significant premium

Excellent!
Do report back on your letter findings. We may learn a thing or two.

SRC with a calvary type sling

It makes a good wall hanger with the sling

Ready to hop on a horse and go elk hunting

If you can wait till March 16th I'll be going to the Baltimore show. Cody will be there and they do searches while you wait for $5. The search has all the same info, less the fancy paper. I got 6 last year, I think four for Joe Brady and 2 for me. If it's some fantastic news like it was owned by someone famous, you can get the letter later. If it's just all the info the guys gave you, you can go out to dinner. I did my 1902 engraved rifle. The guys told me every thing on the search. Then I did my 1929 engraved K with the owners initials carved in the stock JM. Turned out that was bought new by the California Artist, Jo Mora, I'm getting a letter for that one.

Czech. Something else about "Letters" and "Searches". Your rifle is quite interesting, so if you want me to do a search, it's only $5, I'll get it for you, just so I can be the first to know. I'll text you the search as soon as I read it. But some guys have got searches and then said they were going to get a letter to see what else is there? Nope, nothing else. In the pic below, the one on the left has a bunch of special order stuff. Mine on the right, only has "K". The "K" has engraving, checkering, fancy wood, maybe a couple more special features. But, they don't list them, because that's what a "K" is. Next to the K is some work and job order numbers, but those records were lost long ago, so they just mean the rifle went back to the factory on that date for, "something". So, if your search comes back and just says 1899H that would make a boring letter. If it comes back with more info, and a famous owner, yeah, get the letter.

Joe, that's a great offer, and I will take you up on it!

If you would post the results here and email me the search (it's easier for me to put in my records if it's an email), I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure several people here would like to see the results, too.

PM me your address and I'll send you the $5.

Thank you!

Rick

I have a beautiful 99G in 30-30 that was once an 1899H in 22HP, and it was redone at the factory with the factory letter stating so. Maybe something similar happened here?

I suspect that's exactly what happened. And I'd sure love it if the search told the story!

In the last two years I have had some 'gunshow' searches ran and was charged $10 each, which still is not bad compared to $75 each + $5 for mailing. Several I ran were for guns that had some work done, most showed that were returned to the factory for unspecified work, one did not.

Looks like you have a Colt revolver problem too. ??
How's about a pic of those?

OK, kinda sick today. May be tomorrow before I get pics. I also have a left-handed German Weatherby problem and a Ruger #1 problem

Rick, here are pics of the wall of pistols. Many of the SSA's are from when we were cowboy action shooters but I've had one of them since I was 15. It's the gun I've had the longest. More on it below.

The second pistol from the right in the top row is a 22 magnum that I got in 1961 when I was 15. Mama had to buy it for me. I wasn't old enough to buy a pistol, but it was my money. I worked as a house painter for my Father in the Summers while I was in high school and college. George Pasteur's Sport Shop in Ocala had it. George gave me a gift certificate for high school graduation in 1963 and I used it to buy the pearl grips. That was before I knew George Patton's opinion of pearl grips.

Bottom of the right side of the wall. I had to take two pics of the right side because I couldn't back up far enough to get the whole side in one pic.

The other pearl handled Colt that is in all 3 pics is engraved and has a history with some trick shooters. You can see the grip in the upper left of the last photo. It's a left handed grip with a carved steer's head.

There's even one rogue Savage pistol!

The Savage pistol came with a batch of 99's that I bought. The batch also included a Savage 101 pistol that DSR got from me when he came out hunt elk.
While I was out there I took a pic of the 1899H SRC with a modern saddle ring sling.

I'll bet the guy who came up with that idea thought he had a new invention. I imagine it was first developed for the military for M16's or M4's.