Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Costner's "Wyatt Earp" -- ZZZZZZZZZ

Tried -- again -- to watch Kevin Costner's "Wyatt Earp" but couldn't stick with it very long. Marvelous cast, rotten material, plodding pace, 'way too long. Deserves a special Mark Twain BoM award for ready relief from insomnia -- award inspired by Twain's piercing appraisal of a well known book of the time: "If _____ _____ wrote ___ ____ __ ______, it was a miracle. At least staying awake while he did it was. It is chloroform in print."

To me "Wyatt Earp" was a handful of good scenes surrounded by a couple of hours worth of crap. I thought "Tombstone" was a much better movie.

Tombstone was more exciting but I like Wyatt Earp too. Hey, on a wicked cold winter day, pop it in the VCR, it sure beats game shows and soap operas.

Well pilgrim, I have a fist full of old John Wayne movies and a bunch of other oldies that I use for not watching commercial TV. I could watch "The Shootist" and "Rooster Cogburn" several times over afore I could sit through Costners "Wyatt Earp" Now "Dances With Wolves" is another story, I love that on. And one I have worn out two copies of so far is "African Queen". Katherine Hepburn and Bogy were MAGNIFICENT in that one!

Eastwood's "spagetti westerns" are also on my favorites list, not all that enamored with the "Dirty Harry" ones of his though.

All too true, but a good read puts all three to shame! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm from a family of readers, as is "Wifey". I've got a pretty good size American Civil War library, and as Dad is a WW2 vet, I'm off to a good start on that as well.

Other than a very few, I wouldn't miss TV or movies much. It's more background noise than entertainment at my house.
7mm

Good point 7mm, sounds like we have similar interests. My dad is a Normandy veteran. I highly recommend Stephen Ambrose's WWII books. I really enjoyed D-Day and Citizen Soldier (sorry getting off topic here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />).

Ken being an author, I would hope he wouldn't mind! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I just finished Ambrose's "Pegasus Bridge" last night. Have reread "Citizen Soldiers" several times. Cornelius Ryan is another great one. I've got a few by German WW2 vets too. "Panzer Commander" is excellent, as is "Soldat". Next up will probably be Omar Bradley's autobiography.

What outfit was your Dad with? My Dad went ashore D-day plus seven to a Repple Depple, and was with the Second Armored Division from the breakout to the Elbe, Matter of fact, his regiment crossed the Elbe, but they were pulled back the next day.

I never get tired of these stories! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
7mm

I rather liked "Wyatt Earp" and thought Ccostner did a bang up job and much preferred it over "Tombstone".

I guess I go farther towards the back of the class.................

I've a treasured copy of Bill Mauldin's "Up Front" and though it is whimsical,it just might rate my favoritest WWII-era publication. One can easily discern between the lines,that those boys were up against it on a GOOD day.

Further yet off the pace,but it do stick in my mind....................

Hell, I got a photo of my Uncle Clarence standing under a tree in front of his tent in germany, Danged if he don't look just like the guys Bill Mauldin drew cartoons of!

Tombstone is a much better movie.

Haven't seen Wyatt Earp yet. But I'm with TLee ... could spend the afternoon watching the Duke!

No big surprise that readers might outnumber watchers someplace like the Campfire, I suppose. I'm certainly in that category. Damn near compulsive about it....
I haven't seen Tombstone, and probably won't. Dances w/ Wolves was good, though. I hear Seabiscuit is good, too, and might actually have to go see that.
Otherwise, television isn't even remotely in the same league as a good book. My son is dyslexic, and reading is a real chore for him, so he watches TV. Not just exclusively, you understand, he's already had more outdoor adventures than a lot of adults ever experience. All the same, he realizes that most of the programming is utter drivel.
We built a house a couple of years back, and one criteria was no TV in my personal living areas. The idiot tube is upstairs in the family room. I go up there from time to time, and sit & watch for a while. It's such an easy target for disparaging comments... ;-). Anyway, there's a computer up there also, and I often find the kids on the net and only sort of peripherally monitoring the tube.
I really think the internet will eventually put a hell of a dent in TV.
But speaking of books; the last issue of "Montana, the Magazine of Western History", has an annual ranking of the 75 best Montana-related books. It's based on a poll taken at a literary festival in Missoula. There's some gems listed, and I'm glad to say I've read the bulk of 'em.
#1 is "This House of Sky", by Ivan Doig. Personally, I've compared that book to a Grateful Dead album. It's kind of spacey & disjointed, in my view. Not to knock my man Ivan... #12 on the list is his "Dancing at the Rascal Fair", which IMO is hands down the best book I've ever read. That thing is a masterpiece. I re-read it about once a year, and invariably find some detail that slips by upon first or even subsequent readings, but upon further inspection ties into some other detail. It's like a woven tapestry, I tell ya. Like for instance; how it starts and ends with a drowned horse. Of course, it may strike deeper with me than some, as most of it takes place in areas I spent a lot of time as a kid. Plus there's a lot of parallels with my and my ancestors lives. I could bore you all to death rattling on about it, but suffice to say it is a work of art and I can't hardly recommend it highly enough.
Rounding out the top few slots are an assortment of history books by Joseph Kinsey Howard, Malone & Roeder, K. Ross Toole, and stories of the fur trade; A.B. Guthrie's classic "The Big Sky" and Andrew Garcia's "Tough Trip Through Paradise".
Plus, of course, "A River Runs Through It". Those Missoulians are a loyal bunch ;-).
But hey, if you like cowboy stories, you can't beat Teddy Blue Abbott's "We Pointed Them North". His father-in-law Granville Stuart's "Forty Years on the Frontier" is good stuff, too, but some of Teddy's accounts will just chill you. There's one in there of them riding through a blizzard somewhere up around the Missouri Breaks, that they only survived by the narrowest of margins. I'm sure glad we don't have to be that tough anymore... Another of them lying outside an Indian encampment while a couple of their party (with balls of solid rock) went in and arrested several troublemakers. Teddy writes pretty good for a formerly itinerant cowpuncher (he had some help, I think). Still there's passages in there that couldn't be made up by an editor or ghost writer. They were laying outside that Indian camp waiting for daylight and freezing to death. He talks about how this old medicine man climbed a bluff outside camp, and did his morning devotions. It must have been something, laying there in the cold and dark, listening to this old boy chanting away on the knoll. Teddy could understand a bit of the language, enough to understand he was lamenting their way of life that had recently vanished. Dang, I wish I could remember the quote... Something about how he knew he was listening to something that darn few white men had ever heard, and possibly none ever would again. Teddy definitely had mixed emotions about the whole deal, but he did his job.
Just a couple more details about that, & I'll let go of this little tangent. He relates how as they're riding through Miles City a madam of one of the brothels came out (apparently everybody came out of everywhere) and hollered "stay with it, Blue, don't you weaken!". Obviously they were on a first-name basis! They'd promised these Indians a fair shake, but when they turned 'em over to the Army they were promptly hanged, which he thought was a bum deal.
I suspect Costner or somebody connected with Dances With Wolves must have read that book, and I bet a lot of you would like it too.

7mm,

Pop was in the 3rd armored div., a machine gunner. If I remember correctly he went on the line near the of June and was severly wounded by 88 shrapnel on July 28 at the Breakout in St. Lo.

Robert Duvall...Lonesome Dove or even Tender Mercies. Agree about the " Duke " although my Favorite was 'She wore a Yellow Ribbon '
Also, Clint Eastwood in ' Unforgiven ' however I give the nod to 'outlaw josey wales ' tied with ' pale rider '
Costner I would not even rent him to cure insomnia...think I will head to the Video store and see if the ' the magnificent Seven ' is in.

bcboy

Agreed on Costner. IMHO Robert Duvall's finest Western role of late was in the otherwise uneven "Geronimo: An American Legend". Duvall is in top form as the Civilian Scout Al Seiber.

Can't mention "The Magnificent Seven" without mentioning the magnificent three-hour Japanese movie from which "The Magnificent Seven" was copied, much of it word for word. I'm speaking of course of "The Seven Samurai" (1957), in which seven samurai agree to fight for a Japanese village against a bandit gang. The biggest difference being that the youngest "gunfighter" in the "Samurai" original doesn't get to marry the village girl at the end like in the cowboy version.

Birdwatcher

While I have to weigh in on the side of Tombstone, how many here have seen the newest Cosner western, "Open Range"? Robert Duval's acting skill saves the day here, as does Anette Benning (as the romantic interest?) - Cosner is a poor actor IMO, although he does better here than in his other two westerns "Dances with Wolves" and "The Postman". The photography is outstanding, filmed mostly in Alberta. The story is pure 'western', distinct good guys and bad guys, and it places a heavy emphasis on VALUES rather than on dubious personal loyalties. That is where "Wyatt Earp" falls flat - there family is everything, eclipsing even personal values and basic right-and-wrong.

"Tombstone", in addition to more interesting character portrayals than "Wyatt Earp", has some lesser-known vignettes included. My favorite is the scene in which Dana Delany's character has her photograph taken. This seems of little importance, but the director knows his history and has fun with it. There is but a single known photograph of Wyatt's last wife Josephine Marcus, showing her wearing a flimsy gown just like the one worn in the film's scene. A small detail, but to me an important one which helps to define the differences in the two film's directors' visions. The film "Wyatt Earp" had the same characters and story as "Tombstone", but little of the latter's tension and drama. The characters are thin and uninteresting, particularly when comparing those of Wyatt and Holiday; in "Tombstone" they are focused, self assured, simply more intersting. Some "WE" scenes were confusing and poorly correographed, particularly the train shootout. The pacing is too slow for the quality of the script. Too bad, but it was interesting that both films were released within 6 months of each other...

I agree with LSUfan.... Tombstone was one helluva movie.. Good action, great cast and Val Kilmer did an exceptional job as Doc Holliday..

I wouldn't watch Costner walk across the street..

Costner just cant fill Earps boots at any point. He should stick to baseball. Having lived in that part of the
world as a boy and witnessing my grandfather and his brothers do the cowman/trapper gig I can appreciate when I see real men. Costner doesnt cut it for the type of men who played the real scene there.

Tombstone does come closer to it.