Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Competition vs "real world"

Reality's a bitch, that's for sure. Hard. Cold. She doesn't care what you think.

I firmly believe that you don't "rise to the occasion" at all. You default to your level of training and competence. And the sad truth is, the first gunfight you're in is gonna be like the first time you had sex: "it'll be over a lot quicker than you imagined. You won't be nearly as good as you thought you'd be, and the best possible outcome is that you'll be just good enough to get the chance to do it again."

Curious if you've been in a gunfight. I have not.

Where I've seen the most people fall apart is head to head competitions. Since you are mainly talking pistols, that would be things like bowling pin matches, or even dueling trees. People should go to some of those, and see how they would fare. My club likes to welcome in new shooters, because we shoot for fun, but we've seen some newbies get offended. Even hearing some remarks like, "well if we would have known we were going to be shooting against professionals, we wouldn't have came".. The main thing is to get out there, and have fun. Regardless of what you are shooting.

Don't get offended easily. A lot of clubs and its members are there to help you get better, and enjoy your sport, but some disciplines of the shooting games are out for blood: When I was shooting trap for money, you had a lot of guys that would try to get into your head. You learn to not pay attention to those guys, or use that to your advantage. You learn that competing at that level is as much about the head game as it is actual skill. The guys that are getting too riled up, or nervous are the ones that aren't going to be bringing home the bacon. Just how it is. There's a big difference between shooting for money, shooting against yourself and shooting against others.

Yes, I have.

Edit: there's people with a LOT more two-way range time that agree with my OP here in this thread.

By taking training from some nationally-recognized trainers plus competing in a real match, you have done more than 90% of gun owners do. Good show!

Excellent post.

Good Post Goalie.

^^ THIS ^^

I'm not good enough at math to be a good long range shooter.
I'll watch Erik Cortna and my head explodes with the math calculations..🤯
Farthest buck I've killed was 668 several 500+.
Even 500 is too far if you can't read wind in hunting conditions.
Kudos to those that can.

I concur. My time in LE/SWAT don't compare at all to yours in Mil/LE, but it was enough to show me that there was a lot of utility to our guys who also participated in competitive shooting. The top guys on my SWAT team on ops were mostly competitive shooters as well as being dedicated to training on their own quite a bit. Some of our guys competed in long range rifle, some competed in USPSA or IDPA, some competed in 3-Gun, depending on their interests. Naturally they gravitated to the roles on the team where they were most suited.

I think it's silly to point out examples where a good hunter who's never shot in a USPSA match did poorly at his local club match, or a good 1000-yard high power rifle competitor who's done little hunting did poorly on an upland bird hunt. Each of these guys has skills in their primary shooting activity, and when they transition to a different shooting sport, there's gonna be a learning curve. There's no shame in it! But too often people try a new shooting sport and don't get much support when they start out, or are even subject to ridicule, so they shy away from doing it again. That's a sad commentary on the old hands, who should be making an extra effort to bring the new guys along until they gain some facility.

And as you point out, MS, just because you or I were at the top of our competitive game in the early Aughts, that don't mean we could hold a candle to the top guys today.

Life moves on, priorities change. I no longer have the time or inclination to reload 15,000+ rounds of pistol ammunition every winter to use in practice and competition during the April-September IDPA season, and the arthritis in my hands would be horrific if I were to go back to my 3-4X weekly practice sessions (at 250-300 rounds per session). But the lessons I learned shooting competitively in those days have stayed with me, and while I practice far less now, I still practice using established drills and a timer so I can measure my performance against a known standard.

I don't shoot competition or shoot long range, but logic would tell me anything involving time, positioning from 1 shooting station to another, long range where breathing control, trigger control, reading wind, etc, is involved, I don't see how you could not be 100% correct.

However I will disagree in todays world where it seems like the way 99% of any shooting always done with people is with a scoped rifle, off a bench, for groups at 100 yds. For that type of shooting which is the way most people judge their accuracy and their rifles accuracy, it takes almost no practice once you've achieved any set goals. I can be off for long periods and 2-3 shots be back in the game when shooting bench groups at 100, or in some cases with some rifles, hit the same dot on the first shot I hit 8 mo's ago with it.

Field position shooting, or iron sight shooting whether it be rifle or pistol, requires practice to stay on point. At least for me it does. Most people spend no effort at either. Only thing that matters is groups on paper off a bench.

I have no doubt this is correct…I will NOT argue that competition has advantages in a lot of ways but I don’t feel it is an absolute requisite to be the ‘best’ (whatever that is), for long range shooting/hunting anyhow. I absolutely can see a huge advantage to timed shooting and doing so under pressure for self defense or even offense scenarios.

I shake my head at those on here who constantly ask how many matches a person has shot, in order to back up (admittedly, pompous) claims. Some people just aren’t even mildly interested in competition and can still be really good. I am admittedly not the best shot in the world and that is something I need to work on but just don’t find enjoyment in shooting targets and can’t force myself to go to any sanctioned shooting event. That doesn’t mean I can’t make a tough shot reliably at an elk at last light on the last day, which is pressure in and of itself, to people like me. I know several really good competitors that have missed shots such as those, on more than one occasion.

The flip side of that coin is people claiming to be the best rifle shot ever, in the history of mankind, that never have and never will put those amazing skillz on display in competition. If you're that rare bird that flies high without competition honing your edge, you're probably not bragging about how good you are on here.

It’s actually the entire reason competitions exist; to determine The Best

Whether it’s golf, football, shooting etc…

I won't argue with that.







Solid point and fair enough, but does that mean that the biggest white-tail ever taken by a hunter is in the record books?

I've got a Montana moose that (at least would have been) in the top 5 in the state, but I never had the desire to enter him.

For reference, you were in the Corps, right? If so, you have demonstrated better than basic marksmanship skills (unless you were Pizza Box, if so, sorry) and qual is basically a competition.

I think competition tends to force repetition and trigger time if your the type to invest in it and WANT to do better. Do the same trigger time and repetition without signing up for the local shoot - you're still likely to be a damned good shooter.


Long way of me saying - competition doesn't hurt but I don't put a ton of stock in a guy just because he also competes. It's not something that makes me respect someone immediately.

I've seen a lot of chitty competitors that remain chitty shots over years because they compete but do nothing else. No practice. A lot of guys saying "I won a tournament" but turns out they're "C" class, not HOA or Master's class. They were just the best "C" class which isn't hitting a ton of targets in the clay games.

PRS/IDPA/USPSA might be different.

The best on that given day over that given course of fire. Best all time for ever, regardless? Then you need to build a resume and that resume needs to be stretched out over various matches, disciplines and years against competitors with similar resumes.

I added my thoughts in bold.

It's kind of like bass fishing. Some really good fishermen who could win on any given day, but who want nothing to do with bass tournaments. (I don't blame them)

You're not wrong. Simply competing doesn't mean much if you're last and are not putting in effort. And, conversely, telling everyone you're the best doesn't mean much if you won't back it up.