Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Comanches Vs. Apaches

What about London dance hall? 🤣

Went there too!

Had a gal in the nearby town who loved to dance, and she'd call me up to take her to London Hall now and then.

Ended up at the Purple Sage in Uvalde quite a bit too.

Not many places left. They have either closed down, turned into Meskin joints, or started having that queer Austin music by bands that look pretty feral.

Wind blew the roof off ff the little cafe across the road from the London dance hall last spring. Was run by some old sisters. We’d hit that place on Friday’s for the catfish lunch special. We tore down a barn on a place between London and Saline creek. Got some good stuff out of it.

This from Texas Ranger Captain John Salmon RIP Ford’s collected memoirs (RIP Ford’s Texas). Captain Ford fought Comanches more than any other White man who lived to tell the tale.

In the event of being pursued, immediately, after the preparation of depredations, the Comanches move day and night, very often not breaking a gallop, except to exchange horses and to water the caballada. Under these circumstances, they will travel at least 70 miles a day, which is a long distance with the encumbrance of loose animals….

They sit a horse admirably, and manage one with a master hand. Charge them and they will retreat from you with double your numbers, but beware when pursuing them, keep your men together, well in hand, with at least half their arms loaded, else you will find when it is too late the flying Comanches will turn on you and charge you to the very teeth.

Never ride upon a bowman’s left; if you do, ten to one that he will pop an arrow through you. When mounted, an Indian cannot use his bow against an object behind and to his right…..

The bow is placed horizontally in shooting; a number of arrows are held in the left-hand. The bow operates as a rest to the arrows. The distance – the curve the missile has to describe in reaching the object – is determined by the eye without taking aim. Arrows are sped after each other in rapid succession.

At the distance of 60 yards and over, arrows can be dodged, if but one Indian shoots at you at one time. Under 40 yards the six-shooter has little advantage over the bow. At long distances the angle of elevation is considerable. It requires a quick eye to see the arrow, and judge the whereabouts of its descent, a good dodger to move out of the way, and a good rider withal to keep in the saddle. A man is required to keep both eyes engaged in an Indian fight.

A Comanche can draw a bow when on horseback, standing or running, with remarkable strength and accuracy, they have been known to kill horses running at full speed over 100 yards away.

I remember reading that and thinking it would be my luck that I would wind up chasing the one left-handed Comanche!

BTW, does anyone know which Apaches raided in the hill country? Were they Lipans or Kiowa-Apaches?

I think most were Kiowa-Apaches 3040. But there were Mescaleros that raided this far east too.

Birdy remember Josiah Gregg when visiting a Comanche camp in the IT. He had a Paterson revolver and one of the chiefs challenged him to a match to see who could shoot the fastest, revolver or bow.

He went on to say the chief could let loose 5 arrows with accuracy, before he could empty his Paterson
( from "The Commerce Of The Prairie" by Josiah Greeg).

A whole herd of my reenacting buds were involved in a short documentary on Jack C Hays several years back. With a good representation of the Battle of Walker creek. I’ll see if I can find it.

Video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VppeJGXI8pU&pp=ygUXamFjayBjIGhheXMgZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk%3D

Sorry for some reason I haven’t been able to embed videos from YouTube on this forum anymore

Bob, I'm not sure which group was raiding central Texas in those days but I believe that there was no group known as "Mescalero" until after Geronimo's surrender and the Apaches were bottled up in Oklahoma. A certain group of them were extremely unhappy with their situation in Oklahoma and they petitioned the gubmint for years to go back to their traditional lands, then were eventually granted the reservation in New Mexico we now know by the name. Not all were in favor of the move to that parcel, but the ones who did migrate back to NM then became known as the Mescaleros. The Mescaleros then allowed another group whose origins I cannot recall to join the Mescalero band. I could have some of that sequence wrong, but that's how I recall the history.

I wish I could recall more detail, but I am doing well to remember that much.

Experiment...

I played with that link, and it worked. Hhmmm...


I changed

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VppeJGXI8pU&pp=ygUXamFjayBjIGhheXMgZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk%3D

to

https://youtube.com/VppeJGXI8pU

I don’t really know either. I know there were a groupother that the Lipan and kiowa-apache that got the smith boys and allegedly one of them ended up in Geronimo’s band. They and maybe the White Mtn??? Were the ones I speculated. Birdy should chime in as I know he’s spent time with Mescaleros.

I seem to remember a skirmish in southern NM (?) between an apache band and the US Army with a unit of Mexican cav coming up from the south. One of the Apaches in the middle of the fight got up and started yelling at the Americans that they should both join together and fight the Mexicans as they were a common enemy. Birdy? Remember that one???

Thanks

Lucky guess!

I believe The name Mescalero was more of a way to describe a band/regional group. Mescalero were part of the central apaches. And you’re correct, a group of Chiricahuas settled on the reservation as well.

I read Indeh, by Eve Ball only last summer. That is the one source of what I have read on the subject of the Apache. That is only one book among a multitude, but I think what makes it interesting is how it was written.

The author was a school teacher who moved into the Ruidoso area to teach on the reservation early in the 20th century. The Apache were a very closed society and basically would not converse with Whites and distanced themselves pretty effectively. Somehow, over time, Ms. Ball made friends with some who were old enough to remember the days before they were rounded up and sent to Oklahoma. Some knew Geronimo and other important leaders before him even.

What she did was gain their confidence sufficiently that they told their stories, one on one, in bits and pieces. She spoke with several of them over a period of years and recorded what they said. The story is pieced together, bits and pieces told entirely from the Apache perspective. It was all very interesting, and I'd read it again.

In another year I could probably read it and it would be like the first time, unfortunately. I am sure I would enjoy it, though.

It was a mixed band of Lipans and comanches that got the smith brothers. I suspect the apaches that got Hermann Lehmann were also Lipans. Same with Adolph Korn. Just mentions Apaches got him. And they eventually met up at a Comanche camp.

Mason Texas Author Fred Gipson now comes to mind. Where he got his inspiration for Savage Sam!

I enjoy her books. I’ve read Indeh, another book of hers that is a great read is Ma’am Jones of the Pecos. ABout one of the first white families to settle the region. It talks about them rescuing a white captive boy from the Mescaleros, as well as doctoring the young Chief Magoosh. It also gives a slightly different perspective from the other side of the coin as far as the Lincoln county war.