Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns New 1911 help.

So I’ve owned 1911s in the past d got rid of them. Time to get another. I need it to be stainless, reliable with flat points have adj sights and accurate. Price doesn’t matter much but would like it rather stock. How’s those gold cups?
S.

The Colt Gold Cup is legit. Can't go wrong with it. Being a Colt, it will hold it's value better than any other brand. It will out shoot you.

Stop selling your guns!!!

Gibby

Well! Duh!

Gold Cups are usually excellent (Ethan Edwards always had high praise for his), but for a lot less you can get a roughly equivalent Springfield Armory.

Bottom Line Up Front: Get whatever 1911 floats your boat.

Diatribe as to why:

I've shot 2 Gold cups owned by friends in the last 10-ish years. One was a lemon (a 2018 model with various issues, including sometimes getting two shots on a single trigger pull--and that started after the first trip back to the factory!) and the other was fine.

I've also shot quite a few high-end 1911's over the years--I have a friend who is legally blind and was also active at the local gun show; he used to buy and sell nice 1911's regularly. For years his table always had Wilson Combats, Nighthawks, Ed Brown's, etc. on it. He could see enough to shoot with green laser grips, but couldn't see well enough to install them or zero them. Enter me. I'd take his guns to the range and get them zeroed so he could shoot them before eventually selling them. Anyway, it was fun having the opportunity to handle and shoot so many different 1911's.

Here's my takeaway on 1911's: The technology for them is out there for anyone to use. There is no secret science to snapping together a reliable and accurate 1911. That said, my actual shooting experience at common self-defense distances (50 ft and in) is that they all shoot the same. You always have to find the right combination of gun and ammo, but the notion that a Nighthawk will outshoot a Colt/Springfield 1911 is just nonsense perpetrated by the people who laid down $4500 for their gun. You get more problems from the mass production companies than the custom shops, but it ain't no thing to find a production 1911 that shoots.

I say all of that, because when I firmly declare that Gold Cups are overpriced for what you get, people will want to fight me. The Gold Cup is a fine 1911, but it is no more likely to put bullets on target than most other 1911's for less money. Only if you want "cool points" (and I get it: that's a thing) should you lay down the extra cabbage for a Gold Cup. For function and accuracy, your extra money is not buying you anything.

I used to take a TON of grief at my local gun club for my base model 1911 Kimber 9mm...until I shot it in front of whomever was mocking me. More importantly, the mute button really got pressed when the mockers shot it. My friend's Nighthawk 9mm 1911 has nothing on my base model Kimber, complete with plastic backstrap. (By the way, that Nighthawk is currently for sale for like $3400 if you're interested. I can put you in touch with the seller. It's a beautiful gun!) A couple of my friends bought Ruger 1911's when they first came out (designed by Caspian for Ruger, I think) and those pistols shoot every bit as good as any other 1911 I've shot--and they were bought new for only $699.

It's your money, however, and you only have to please yourself. My long post is meant to give you confidence in whatever you buy--you'll be fine. Enjoy!

Pay once, cry once, buy a 70 series Colt Gold Cup. They are the absolute gold standard of 1911s. Do not buy an 80 series, they are a lawyer's wet dream of add on safety junk, that was never needed on a 1911.
Most all of the great take offs have gone cheap, trading today on their old reputation of excellence. charging six prices for cheap PI and Turkish junk with their name stamped on it.
Every well dressed 1911 man needs a Bob Cogan custom 1911. Bob is the owner of Accurate Plating form AL. I build 1911s and have since 64. Now retired. Bob makes a real fine 1911 and I have had several of his competition guns. His fitting and hard chrome is beautiful.
https://apwcogan.com/for-sale/

Les Baer.

Les Baer Premier II Monolith Heavyweight Frame 5"

^^^^^^^^^^^

The Colt should serve you well. Mine are giving me great service. Both series 70 and 80. The noise about the Series 80 guns is just nonsense. The other option based on your preferences and what i have experience with is a Springfield Loaded. Mine is an older one and is a keeper.

Dan Wesson. Colt, Springfield, S&W, Sig, Ruger... they are all good enough second choices but Dan Wesson is at the top of the heap right now.

The fact that you want SS & adjustable sights is somewhat limiting for your choices, & of those, the guns are all very similar, just different roll marks indicating the manufacturer & are generally more alike than different.

Since you asked about God Cups, I'll comment on them first. (And I do like GC's)

A Gold Cup is a fine gun, but in reality, going back to the Mark IV series, they are generally no better than 3" guns at 50 yards; many don't make that mark, a few might do better. In reality, the GC is neither fish now fowl.........it's not truly the equal of a custom, purpose built gun, & today, probably not really much, if any more accurate than any other of Colts guns or most from other manufacturers.

The GC also doesn't have checkering on the front strap, if that matters to you.

You say you want it accurate, but what are you going to do with it? Shoot Bullseye, club matches, bowling pins, self defense, etc. Are you going to carry it or is it just a range toy?

Most quality 1911's today will be far better from an accuracy & reliability standpoint than ever before due to being built to consistent & more accurate tolerance, than in the past.

Virtually all have throated barrels & excellent magazines are available for numerous sources, so reliability really isn't the issue it once was.

So do you really need adjustable sights? Most typical combat sights today are sufficient for all but serious Bullseye work & not getting adjustable sights opens up many more options.


This ^^^ Every single one of those manufacturers makes a model every bit as good or better than a GC. If you want to get the best, short of a custom gun, the Dan Wesson's are top shelf.

If you want to step down from the GC in the Colt lineup, the Competition version has adjustable Novak combat sights.

If you can take non-adjustable sights, the Springfield SS TRP model is outstanding in all respects & will not disappoint. Colt also has several similar versions........these are at a premium $$$$.

If you're buying it to carry & it's not just a range toy, I'd strongly suggest that you consider a Commander a gun with a lightweight frame.

Good Luck..................more good guns today, than bad ones.

MM

It is hard to know when it comes to recommendations on a forum. You will get some recommendations from some guys who shoot fairly frequently, and some from guys who own guns and fondle them, but very rarely actually shoot. I do know, based on the content of their posts that a few of these guys are frequent shooters though.

I have put one or two rounds through a 1911 over the years.





The wear on the breach face of this old, early Gen 1 Kimber might be a clue.



It is well past the 70K mark.
I don't really have a numbers guess anymore, but it still runs like a champ. The early ones were phenomenal guns, but they went through eras of spotty reliability, and I do not know where they are at right now.

Traditionally I have always recommended either a Colt or a Les Baer, depending on budget. However, in the last few years I have had occasion to examine and shoot a few Ruger 1911s. Ruger is not a name I associate with 1911. I will just say that I have been very favorably impressed.

The guns have been uniformly well built, with good lockup, good barrel fitment, and decent triggers. The ones I shot, shot well. Just very consistent guns. If I was in the market for a reliable, out of the box 1911 that was not in the Les Baer category, I would look hard at a Ruger. They have a lot of good options, and their customer service is good as well, should you need it.

Tisas sells a Match pistol that is stainless and has adjustable sights. Youtube videos seem to indicate that it shoots well. It also has a checkered frontstrap, and sells for less than a Ruger SR 1911Target (like I have currently), MSRP is $1050, but I've seen them for sale for under $900 lately. I do NOT own one, but I have four other Tisas that are damned nice pistols.

From what I've seen lately, the make of the pistol doesn't mean much, I've got a couple Colts (one from the Custom Shop) that don't shoot any better than guns that cost half as much. While the most accurate 1911 I ever owned was a Colt, it was completely rebuilt from one end to the other, and hardly had any Colt parts left in it.

There are some makes I won't touch, (Auto Ordnance, Iver Johnson, Metro Arms, maybe some others) I've got Springfields, Tisas, Colts, a Ruger, and a couple Rock Islands. They're all pretty good shooters or I wouldn't keep them around. FWIW, the best shooters I have are those Rock Islands, they outshoot the Springers, the Colts, and that Ruger, too. The Ruger is the worst of the fourteen 1911s I have, in fact.

~70K on a pre series II Kimber. Someday I would love to read about it's journey. What just wore out, what broke etc.

Tisas. Pick the model that has the features you like. Nothing better on the market for the value. And I have owned S&W, Kimber, Les, Colt, and Wilson’s

About $950.00 for this one (Tisas 1911 Match 45), that more than fits the OP's bill. And includes front strap checkering, and other nice features not on the Gold Cup, such as mag well extension, beavertail grip safety, and extended and ambi thumb safety.

I love my DW PM7. Added an arched funnel.

Another vote for the Dan Wesson. I have a DW Valor Stainless 5" that has been flawless. I am not the best pistol shot around but I shoot that pistol better than any other I have.

A fine pistol and I own one. I'm up to 4 Tisas 1911's if you count the 10mm model.

Cool! What's your impression of it? I only have the GI Model 1911 A1 by Tisas.

Money not a consideration I would look at new or used Wilson Combat, Les Baer, Alchemy Custom Weaponry, Gun Crafter Inc.

Not long ago I went to one of my LGS's as I had been eyeing a Colt 1911 there with the thought of buying. Next to the Colt was a used but clean (short of the idiot scratch) Dan Wesson PM-45, pretty much what you describe. It was priced at $100 more than the Colt (so $1300) and after handling both there was no comparison in fit and finish. Also the Colt did not have a checkered front strap. The Dan Wesson came with the box, two additional magazines and the original receipt (purchased just 5 months prior). It has proven to be an excellent piece.

I can't remember ever reading a cross word for DW 1911's, not one not ever..

That's hard to say about any 1911. Kinda funny. CZ owns them & now Colt, but the DW is very likely superior. Odd to think why they would want Colt IMO.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to go over a DW.

With regards to the Tisas..................I was at the range last fall & a guy I didn't know was there shooting pistols & we struck up a little conversation as we hung targets.

Turned out he was a retired state PoPo & he had a new commander size, round butt Tisas & he let me look it over & shoot it.

I was really surprised at the fit & finish as it was really good & far better than I expected & it shot & functioned just fine. Fully as good as I've seen on most other newer name branded guns.

Sample of one, FWIW.

MM

I talked to a Runnings store manager yesterday. I asked him if the sell a lot of the Tisas pistols. He said a lot. He said he went to SHOT last year and the guy from Tisas said they will surpass Kimber in two years in sales. Idk, maybe.

Funny how the 1911 is still chugging along after more than a century.

As much noise as you make about not supporting anti-2A companies I am surprised you still push Springfield Armory...

Incredibly two-faced company...

When I started shooting 1911s a lot back in the 1980s you pretty much had to rebuild the guns to get them shoot well and be reliable. I started shooting a lot of USPSA so put a lot of rounds down range. I remember I purchased a mid 1980s colt gold cup (which I still have) and the barrel lock up was loose, the slide frame fit was very loose and the trigger was terrible. 25 yard bench rested groups were poor. I installed a match barrel, tightened the slide, reworked the trigger etc. after that the gun was a tack driver. Same process on some other 1911s during 80s and 90s (Springfield, series 70 colt ,paraordnance.) Fast forward to today. None of that previous work is usually required except maybe triggers. Kimbers ,Springfields, Colts and others are mostly excellent. Barrels are fitted up to lock up tightly, slide/ frame fit good , sights usually excellent. In relative terms they are much less expensive today since you do not have do all the extra work. A gunsmith friend was in my clinic last week and showed me his new Springfield 1911 . It locked up like a bank vault ,good sights etc and I think about 800 bucks. It really needs nothing. In the old days, you would have to do an extensive rework to get a gun that nice or pay a custom builder. The new colts are still looser than most other brands but they seem to perform well and I like the prancing pony. Bottom line any of the big names is likely fine

Had to Google this. It seems that Springfield Armory initially supported Senate Bill 1657, but when its implications were made known to them by the gun rights community, they immediately reversed their position, stating unequivocally that they now oppose it, and hadn't carefully considered its implications initially.

Is that what you're referring to?

Great post, Waders..

I admit that the only ones I have are Kimbers, but to date, all have performed well. A couple of minor issues with inadvertant magazine drops in two of my Micros, but Kimber took care of those promptly and efficiently. All others have had zero problems.

The only full-size one I have is a stainless 9mm and I have found it to be very accurate. You shoot them a lot more than I, and I'd bet that - in your hands - you'd be able to unload a full magazine and keep shots inside an inch or less.. I'm dying to try out their newer KSD9c - thinking a somewhat compact 1911 with 15 rounds available would be a great piece when crossing the border into the Murderapolis areas (only when absolutely necessary, of course).

Theres 2 ways to look at this,
1. They actually didnt know as stated, or
2. They got caught trying to stack the deck and decided to avert what we now call a Bud Light moment, If their true motives were exposed.

#1 is highly suspect verging on out right lie.
#2 is most likely.

There’s a lot of good advice here. A checkered front strap is a requirement for me, good sights are another one. I own a Les Baer Premier II, a Springfield TRP stainless that a replaced nearly every parts on and two compact Kimbers, an Ultra CDP and a Tactical Pro II. I’ve owned several Colts also. My very first was a blue series 70 that was reliable but it flattened the case mouth of every round fired, a stainless series 80 that was a good gun then bought one of the first enhanced Gold Cups in 1992. It was never reliable and wouldn’t feed a full magazine. Look around at the used guns available, you may find something close in price to the Gold Cup that’ll be even better.

My bet is that their initial response was almost an autopilot kind of thing that came from the attorneys they have overseeing their public relations department.

Yep the 2 companies gave 300,000 to the effort but didnt know a damn thing about the agenda. 🤣

ILLINOIS FIREARMS MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION
"527" Contribution List
Contributor Empoyer/Occupation $ Contribution Amount Date
Rock River Arms
Colona, IL 61241 $150,000 05/31/2014-05/31/2016
Springfield Armory
Geneseo, IL 61254 $150,000 05/31/2014-05/31/2016

How very disingenuous of you. We have had this discussion before. As Swifty posts, they gave serious money to IFMA which was supporting 1657.

1657 would have taxed them heavily. In return for the money IFMA would 1) ...carve out a loophole for certain gun manufacturers on the tax, and 2) stifle protests over the provisions whereby gun owners in Illinois would be severely limited in how many guns they could buy per time period (3 per year IIRC), increase the waiting time, and something else I cannot totally remember.

Then there is the flagrant use of "since 1794" in their advertising. The current company was a renaming of a Texas outfit sometime after the 1968 closure of the actual US Springfield Armory, which was a government-owned entity. Support stolen valor much?

From Wiki, which proves it is pretty obvious if they got it:
Following the closure of the U.S. Army Springfield Armory in 1968, the L. H. Gun Co. of Devine, Texas, was renamed Springfield Armory, Inc. to capitalize on the name recognition. There is no affiliation or licensing between the original Springfield Armory and Springfield Armory, Inc., despite a timeline on the commercial website of the latter that includes the history of the former.[17] The company's products include M1911 pistols and the M1A rifle series.

Thank you for pulling that up! There was also a dirt bag IL lawmaker, but as Mark Twain said, I repeat myself... given quite a bit of money in return for supporting their tax exclusion and he failed to even try to support them.

To be clear, I am in no way commenting on their manufactured products. Rock River and SA are two companies I refuse to transfer for folks and I have transferred a bunch in years past.

eta: I sold my SA Range Officer to poster here for a very low price when I purged my examples. It was perfectly fine in every way.

So, didn't they reverse their position? What else are they supposed to do?

Really? They made several bad moves and gave lots of money to multiple bad actors, becoming bad actors themselves; they got caught and lied; they were presented with proof; they lied more; they were presented with proof in the form of tax reports; they backed off slowly.

They gave serious money to anti- 2A entities... they should not have been as stupid and two-faced as they were. It is hard to believe you can be that obtuse.

What can they do to change your mind about them?

Probably nothing. The damage is done and they have not gone to any effort to apologize. At SHOT right after the incidents they gave away tons of teeshirts with their stolen valor logo...

Thanks Folks, probably get a Colt Gold Cup and go from there!
S.

My apologies for the sidetrack!

I have a little more than a handful of 1911s... my third and fourth were Les Baers... but frankly I would work the other end first given a chance for a do-over.

Do not get me wrong, my Les Baers are incredible and I do not regret buying them. However, I mostly started at the top and went down. That is almost always a bad plan. I got the accuracy guarantee on my first...

Wish I had started shooting them a bunch and worked up. Learning comes faster moving up IME.

I recommend this model.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/colt-combat-elite-1911-government-commander-defender/389142#:~:text=Among%20those%20options%20is%20the,tested%20examples%20in%20every%20size.

He said it had to have adjustable sights.

It does

Unless you consider adjusting with a drift punch - I'm not seeing adjustables on these.

Colt's Website



I handled one a few months back - no adjustable sights (I am not a fan, wouldn't bother picking one up if it had them as it's a no-go for me on purchase)

Aahhh, yes I was thinking that. Thanks for the correction. Lotta colt for the money, and mine is silly point and shoot accurate. Never needed to adjust anything sightwise. I did have a short trigger and new recoil spring installed, but that was for preference. To the OP, good luck in your next 1911.

That's the one I was talking about in my earlier post, and they are pretty good pistols, no MIM parts (if that matters to you), and they are pretty nice. I have a two-tone pistol very similar, in 10mm (the D-10), with the same sights and checkered frontstrap. It's really comfortable to shoot, and shoots fairly well, at that. I haven't shot it much yet (just got it three weeks ago), but it's a nice pistol.

One feature I am not wild about for a carry gun, is the trigger on a “Gold Cup” is almost as wide as the trigger guard. Fully capable of being inadvertently activated by a tight holster. Would require a “stacking” of mistakes to shoot your leg but still not a feature I’d prefer unless just a “range bench, target pistol”.

People who require adjustable sights are anticipating shooting at wildly different ranges, with all sorts of different loads and bullet weights.

As far as Les Baer is concerned, here's what Bullseye competitors have to say. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t17602-les-baer-custom-beware?highlight=les+baer

Some of the posters in that thread are some of the top shooters and top 1911 gunsmiths in the country. I would listen to them.
Phil

Baer gets a lot of love here & I really don't know why.

As for him for building a BE gun, (softball) he doesn't, not really......................maybe called that, but it's not.

To even think about running 3.2 gr of Bullseye with 185 gr bullets with an 18# spring, even with a light slide, is laughable.

That's a common loading for the two stages at the 25 yard line.

18# is a hardball spring, & not even needed for that as a 16.5 # is "standard ". Might be OK for the NM course which is hardball...........

YMMV

MM

Dont know what your level of interest is, but maybe get Kunhausen book or equivalent - study it, buy parts from Brownells or whatever have some fun with it. I have an old 9 major colt built by Clark with over 200000 rds, through it, during my IPSC time. Start with a Tisa and go from the bottom. Before Beavertails, there was a curved upward "tail" still on some of the basic models. These were moulded in and smoothed out using the original frame as part of the new beavertail. Try it. doesn't stick out like the ones today.

This: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Since you like to sell your guns, I'll tell a True Story. I bought my Gold Cup National Match Series 70 for a lot less than $1,000 in the 80s. It's worth well over $2,000 today.

My 80's era Gold Cup had nearly as many issues as my 90's era Kimber. Those were the two worst handguns I have ever owned.

What were the issues?

MM

So where do you stand on Smith and Wesson?
Company?
Owning old guns?
Slandering Glock Era?
Ripping off Glock Era?
Clinton Era?

My Gold Cup lost the front sight in the middle of a match once. The rear sight had a hollow roll pin that held the long portion of the adjustable sight in and those pins were notorious for breaking. After breaking a couple I finally had a gunsmith make me a solid body pin replacement. My gun had the collet finger barrel bushing and of course, that broke and locked the gun up tight as Fort Knox. The pistol was extremely finicky about what it would feed and often wanted to choke. Magazines that ran perfectly in my Gov't and Commander wouldn't feed in that Gold Cup. I ditched it and began building a Government Model with a good gunsmith who understood the 1911 pistol.

Great question and I will answer any questions coming up after my answer...

S&W did some very bad stuff which prevented me from being a fan in any way for quite a long while. They have been through how many hands since they came out against the 2A for private citizens? Four?

Were it the same owners and management in place now I would not do any business with them, period. The ones left making guns had no part in making the horrible decisions and, very importantly, those making those bad decisions are gone.

Lots of companies rode the edge copying Glock and I see that as lots of things, but not abandoning ordinary folks in their fan base as done by RRA and SA.

I own older S&W revolvers and am always looking for more. I own a couple pistols, older, again... always looking for more. Never have been much of a S&W long guns fan.

https://www.sigsauer.com/firearms/pistols/1911.html


Your welcome.

I don't care much for the Sig's with those boxy slides that don't fit real 1911 holsters......

Dang, first i've heard, a man can learn something new here everyday, i'm one of those guys Mac spoke about, have a few handguns, but dont shoot them much, that said, with my Les Baer i was able to make 10 hits in 7 seconds offhand at a 40 yard silhouette target, hence my layman rec to the OP for a heavy all steel 5" 1911 45 ACP, man you get into that slow recoil roll with a double handed death grip and simply press the trigger again everytime the white paper shows back up on that front sight.

So easy a caveman..........................lol.

Thanks for sharing that. I've been poking around that forum for a few weeks, and saw a few grumblings about Les Baer products, which was surprising. But I didn't see anything that specific, or comments from the BE pistolsmiths, until reading your post. Wow.

As I understand it, management at Springfield Armory blamed the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA) for working that deal, claiming that they didn't know the details of the anti-2A legislation. But the head of IFMA was/is an employee of Springfield Armory, with an office at the Springfield facility? Yeah, seems more than a bit fishy.

Don't forget that Rock River Arms was also a part of this as well. They also claimed ignorance to the details? Either way, it seems that RRA and SA would have benefited at the expense of everyone else. Maybe as simple as pure greed.

I remember when all this was fresh news and I simply wrote off RRA and SA. Don't want anything to do with them. But... I've been shopping for a base 1911 to tinker with or send to a gunsmith and Springfield 1911 keep getting recommended. I thought that maybe SA changed, but that whole connection between the IFMA head being a Springfield employee just doesn't settle well, and that is new info to me.

I'm all for second chances, especially if it was truly truly a mistake. Did heads roll at Springfield or RRA? If corrupt leadership was purged, I'd consider a Springfield or Rock River. Maybe not the Croatian import though