Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Rem 700 or Win 70

Hypothetical because I never have, and never will, encounter a big bear in the hunting days I have left. I'd choose a Model 70 LH Classic for its safety, trigger, extractor and ejector. For deer, it would be the same based on the safety and trigger alone. If they made a push feed 70 in left hand that'd be fine, but I'd still prefer the Classic for things that might fight back.

I never hunted dangerous game and I never had an extractor failure in any of my 700's. I like both Win 70 and Rem 700, but if I had fear of extractor failure in my 700 I would simply use one of my Win 70s. Or if I was using Rem 700 I'll have a good 44 mag revolver as a back up.
Question, what causes extractor failure, is it dirt or gummed up oils.

I worked in a LGS back in 92-95. I saw more than one 700 come in with a failure to extract problem. The gunsmith hated working on them also. (RIP Pat) Never seen a M70 come in with a problem. I guess that has a lot to do with my affinity for M70's.
We sold Rems, Winchesters, Ruger's and Brownings and Savages, plus a lot of consignment guns. We did not sell clothes backpacks or other stuff. Guns , ammo and reloading stuff was the forte'.

Usually when someone came in and was looking for new rifle, I would steer them to the M70. Once I showed them field strippable bolt, the simplicity of the trigger and how the safety worked it was over. M70 hands down.

Also have a hunting acquaintance in west central Va. that shot a very large Black bear with a 700 in 25-06. Ronnie went for a follow up shot as the bear was leaving. Extractor failed to extract at the worst possible time. We never found that bear.

There's a reason there is an aftermarket "upgrade" for the safety and extractor on 700's.
Never heard of one for a M70.

I own exactly one Remington rifle. A sportsman 78 in .243 win. It hangs out in the corner of the safe.

Just my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it.

Between the two mentioned by the op I’d take a m70 crf.

I’ve been on 1.5 brown bear hunts so not exactly a cornucopia of experience. But my guide was an experienced chap and gun enthusiast.

We obviously had many discussions about perspective on guns for the task. His view was that folks have all kinds of theories on what’s best and it’s funny to see them debated ad nauseum on social media. And the reality is, he didn’t give a szchit what people brought as long as they could shoot.

He used a 375 Ruger because a client gifted it to him.

Far too much brain power expended on this without actual application.

People have successfully hunted other armed people with push feed rifles.

So to with sticks and stones.

For what it is worth, I have had more issues with CRFs feeding and extracting brass than I have with push feed rifles.


Other than 22 LRs, every failure to extract I can recall (which is not many) has been my fault-pushing the pressure limits just a bit too much. The feeding issues (again, not many) were from claw extractors not grabbing the case head properly, and a few due to me not sizing correctly (I think). I suspect the case head issues were more from the brass being banged up, rather than the claw, but I really am not sure. What I do know is push feeds have not been an issue for me when I do things right.

Pre 64 model 70/Legend stock that a good smith had put together, which I have in 300 H&H.

M700 or M70?? Shirley you jest. Like choosing between a VW Micro Bus and a BMW...

Probably a 70.

Not due to CRF vs PF or anything - mostly due to how I like to work a bolt. Cup and ball style. My fingers never actually grasp the bolt handle, it rides in my palm while I work the action. Faster for me and the 70 bold handle is a better fit for that for me than the 700 which is more like a smooshed out milk dud in shape. Actually, the smooth bolt handle on a Ruger M77/MKII/Hawkeye is perfect.

Probably a M70, just because it's what I have in cartridges suitable for African big 5 and big bear. My .375 is the Ruger built on a M70 XTR push feed, and I have a .338-06 on a SS M70 Classic. If I had a M700 rifles instead chambered the same, that is what I'd use.

Whichever you can shoot best. Practice shooting it, rather then debating gear on the internet. And then choose a Model 700.

Let me ask the question again because I have never experienced extractor failure, what causes it or what can cause it?

Dirt, grease, powder, brass chips can cause it.

A rough chamber can cause it to pull up over the rim and not extract.

Possibly weak clip??

It's not very big and doesn't get a lot of purchase on the rim.

Only ones I had fail were on a brand new rifle. Rough chamber from the factory which held the fired brass tight enough the extractor wouldn't pull it from the chamber.

I like both, have and would use both. I own aeveral of both. But. Given my druthers, I would take the M70 every time.

Thank you 10gaugemag

I've completely lost confidence in anything Remington with the exception of the 870. I have a slight preference for CRF, but for the PF Winchesters are pretty good too. Lately Tikka has become my favorite rifle.

CRF is misunderstood. From a reasonably clean rifle there is absolutely no difference in reliability and the average hunter will never be in a position where CRF might be an advantage. The reason dangerous game hunters and guides have always preferred CRF is because it is more likely to EXTRACT and EJECT if the rifle has been abused and filthy. If I'm hunting in mud, snow, ice, dirt, dust, and there is the possibility my rifle could be dropped in mud or sand and have to work CRF gives me slightly better odds. And that is more important when shooting at something that bites back.

Oh oh... Now that you've stated you've not had a failure, you're gonna get a failure..

One other thing can give you grief that is not mentioned above (that I saw, anyway) - a previous owner who had a replacement installed by someone who didn't do it right and it got slightly bent during replacement.. Severe enough, and the rounds won't chamber.. I ran into that a half-dozen times before..

In my 23 years of rifle work I've replaced probably 20-25 Rem extractors.. But only 3-4 on the M70 (both PF and CRF)..

But like another said above - use the one you shoot best and go hunting..

Fantasies about charging bears, and pretending you are going to be emptying your gun like a ph make people think they need a crf. The first bullet is the one that matters. If you can’t kill it on the first try, your gear regardless of extraction isn’t going to be a deciding factor.
Dream on.