|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951 |
Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet.  LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. I would use any match bullet long before using a mono. And most C and C's 🤦♂️ JFW! No comment necessary, as this should be pretty self explanatory! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172 |
Shoulder shot a doe yesterday at 95yds with a 168gr TTSX just see. Excellent result same as one that I shot in the upper neck that almost took her head off. We my not use the 168gr TTSX on elk next year but it will forever be our deer bullet of choice.
Life is good live it while you can.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. I would use any match bullet long before using a mono. And most C and C's 🤦♂️ JFW! No comment necessary, as this should be pretty self explanatory! memtb You are so gawd dam stupid
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,784 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,784 Likes: 1 |
Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms.
Molon Labe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951 |
Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. 👍 👏 memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. No, I was directly addressing memtb, obviously. !!!!!
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 01/15/24.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 10 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,125 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,125 Likes: 1 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,018 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,018 Likes: 1 |
I miss the Hornady Interbond.
I shot the 150gr out of a 300 WSM @ 3,300 fps and it was the hammer of thor from 10yds to 300yds always had full penetration with a quarter to golf ball size exit.
At one time I had 15 straight kills and none of them took a step. I also shot these in a 30-06 and did recover a couple and they were a perfect mushrooms with about 1/2-3/4" diameter and weight retention was usually around 75%. The interbonds hit incredibly hard. I ran the 165g through a 300 wsm at 3100 for a few years in the early 2000s. I was impressed with how they killed. I recovered one from a large bodied mule deer buck and it had a nice mushroom of twice diameter and still weight around 140g iirc. I actually found some 7mm 154g interbonds on clearance recently and bought about 700. They may not have the best bc for a tipped boat tail but if one of my rifles likes them I'll hunt with them. I used the 180 eldm from a 7 prc at 2850mv to take my cow elk on Halloween day at 470 yards. It worked but I only recovered some small bullet fragments. It dug deeper than a 150 eldx from my 18" fieldcraft 7-08 did on a cow a few years back. Bb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... That "Safari" book is a good read. Have a signed copy and interestingly Elmer hand wrote corrections throughout the book where misprints occured. Have a bunch of others as well, as his writing made a lot of sence. Interestingly, I never heard of Jack O'Connor until Guns&Ammo published a newsstand book of his best of stories after his death. Liked that too, although being a special edition, didn't know anything about his association to the .270 until I got on this web site.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,951 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. J I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... That "Safari" book is a good read. Have a signed copy and interestingly Elmer hand wrote corrections throughout the book where misprints occured. Have a bunch of others as well, as his writing made a lot of sence. Interestingly, I never heard of Jack O'Connor until Guns&Ammo published a newsstand book of his best of stories after his death. Liked that too, although being a special edition, didn't know anything about his association to the .270 until I got on this web site. Jack O’Conner, single handedly is the reason that I despise the 270 Win. 😁 memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,226 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,226 Likes: 1 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Thanks for clearing that up. My memory isn't what it used to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. KT pretty similar to the 340 Wby?
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,511
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
I miss the Hornady Interbond.
I shot the 150gr out of a 300 WSM @ 3,300 fps and it was the hammer of thor from 10yds to 300yds always had full penetration with a quarter to golf ball size exit.
At one time I had 15 straight kills and none of them took a step. I also shot these in a 30-06 and did recover a couple and they were a perfect mushrooms with about 1/2-3/4" diameter and weight retention was usually around 75%. The interbonds hit incredibly hard. I ran the 165g through a 300 wsm at 3100 for a few years in the early 2000s. I was impressed with how they killed. I recovered one from a large bodied mule deer buck and it had a nice mushroom of twice diameter and still weight around 140g iirc. I actually found some 7mm 154g interbonds on clearance recently and bought about 700. They may not have the best bc for a tipped boat tail but if one of my rifles likes them I'll hunt with them. I used the 180 eldm from a 7 prc at 2850mv to take my cow elk on Halloween day at 470 yards. It worked but I only recovered some small bullet fragments. It dug deeper than a 150 eldx from my 18" fieldcraft 7-08 did on a cow a few years back. Bb I take it, no exit with that 180, Bb? What was penetration like?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,085 |
"As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok"
Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. KT pretty similar to the 340 Wby? More similar than different. I've had a couple of 340's and a full sized 338/378 and the only difference in the field was the recoil, headaches and muzzle roar. A case volume in between wouldn't have any notable difference and no benefits.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,305 |
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,784 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,784 Likes: 1 |
beretzs, Elmer and Thompson pushed the shoulder back about a quarter of an inch on his .338/378. He felt a full lenght case was too over bore for 4831. He gained a bit of speed over the .340 I am not sure now how much. I am also not sure about the 275 gr Speer blowing up in the spike. He never mentioned a failure with that bullet that I remember reading about. I know it was his 50th elk for his own use.
As much as I respect Elmer he had his short comings, but who doesn't. He was always concerned about the loss of meat. Something few other writers ever mentioned.
Molon Labe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,556 |
The ELD-x bullets have always had a hit-and-miss reputation for reliability. I have read and seen a bit of both, although I have never tried them. The ones that I tested were very accurate. I think that they were developed with long shots in mind and consequently do not do as well up close.
I have, however, shot quite a few deer from close, to out past 400 yards with the 147 ELD-M, from a Creedmoor. It has performed well at all distances. It seems strange that a target bullet does better than their hunting bullet, but it does. There is obviously a design difference, but maybe the key is long-for-caliber demensions.
In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet.
The old A-max, performed much as the ELD-M does now. It seemed to be reliable on deer and elk-from what I have seen and read, but I never used them.
My experience is that the standard Interlock beats the new, fancy bullets hands down for hunting at all reasonable ranges. I realize that they do not have the pretty little tips, but that is irrelevant anyway. That bullet from nearly any cartridge has never let me down and are as accurate as I can shoot. The 129 in the Creed and .260 perform great.
I will not use a mono in a moderate-velocity cartridge, as it is just not necessary and they are expensive.
Last edited by sbhooper; 01/16/24.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,487
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,487 |
The ELD-x bullets have always had a hit-and-miss reputation for reliability. I have read and seen a bit of both, although I have never tried them. The ones that I tested were very accurate. I think that they were developed with long shots in mind and consequently do not do as well up close.
I have, however, shot quite a few deer from close, to out past 400 yards with the 147 ELD-M, from a Creedmoor. It has performed well at all distances. It seems strange that a target bullet does better than their hunting bullet, but it does. There is obviously a design difference, but maybe the key is long-for-caliber demensions.
In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet.
The old A-max, performed much as the ELD-M does now. It seemed to be reliable on deer and elk-from what I have seen and read, but I never used them.
My experience is that the standard Interlock beats the new, fancy bullets hands down for hunting at all reasonable ranges. I realize that they do not have the pretty little tips, but that is irrelevant anyway. That bullet from nearly any cartridge has never let me down and are as accurate as I can shoot. The 129 in the Creed and .260 perform great.
I will not use a mono in a moderate-velocity cartridge, as it is just not necessary and they are expensive. if the cost of something like a TTSX or hammer etc... is too much then there are other issues at hand. We can blame it on many things but cost is not one of those.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
315 members (204guy, 280shooter, 219 Wasp, 17CalFan, 257robertsimp, 1_deuce, 38 invisible),
2,480
guests, and
1,226
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,239
Posts18,485,851
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
