Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Glock 21 Gen 5. w/ RDO

The G21 would be perfect for Big Jim!

I have size XLs, and the G19 is about as small of a semi auto as I will carry, as it is as small of a gun as I can shoot very effectively. The vast majority of the time though, I am carrying a G17/G22 size frame, as I turn in a better performance with it and find little to no difference in concealment between the two.

I bought a Gen3 21 about 10 years ago and it shot 230 gr. hardball inside 2 inches at 25 yards outdoors over sandbags in August. I sold it soon after because of its size--my smallish hands and because I looked down at it and said "this is not a defensive weapon--it is an offensive weapon." If I wanted to charge a fortified bunker or a vehicle with a handgun it would be a Glock 21 with 13 rounds of hardball. For everyday defensive carry against soft targets, I personally believe the G43 with 2 extra rounds fills the bill perfectly--light weight, small profile, ample firepower, easy to shoot. I feel the same way about the Dan Wesson large frame revolvers--Great in a chest holster for hunting, but no way I'm going to carry on the hip for defense with a gun that big. Others may differ. JMHO. Thanks for the report by the way.

I like biggish pistols. My hands aren’t quite Conrad big but 2X gloves are small on me.

It’s obviously mostly personal preference but I’ve always really liked the Glock grip angle that a lot of people complain about. To me the Glock grip angle naturally guides the hand into the same high hold each time. It’s almost impossible to get an inconsistent grip on it and it minimizes muzzle rise.

It is nice to penetrate several feet of ballistic gel with total destruction. We're more worried about over penetration. We are in a restaurant now and then. If a perp comes in to rob at the register there are innocents on the other side of the perp. What is good in that block 21 gen 5? ¿? Asking for a friend. A block 21 is handy though, two extra factory mags adding an additional 26 rounds of kick it. That's 40 rounds total.
Right now we are using pure copper slugs w/ deep hollow points and fine slits most of the way up the HP walls, running mild enough to be OK in a 37 Brazilian snubby. RZ

Thanks for that honesty Mackay. I'm now less conscientious about my own capabilities now. A man's got to know his limitations. Well done once again.

The topic of penetration/over penetration tends to come up online often. In the real world though, in actual shootings it is such a statistical outlier, worrying about it is something quite frankly I would not do, at all. Here is why. FAR more than 99% of shootings (involving handguns) where someone is hurt other than the intended target, occur when the shooter MISSES their intended target. NOT from shoot throughs.

When projectiles pass through a body, generally they do not have enough energy to do substantial damage. Plus the odds of someone being lined up exactly in line with the bad guy are extremely slim.

I recall a few years ago I actually looked up the numbers, and I had to go back (if I recall right) more than 30 years to find a verifiable incident, and it was not that well documented. It was well over 100K shootings. The number of shoot throughs were 1 or 2. I remember looking up some other statistics and you were FAR more likely to be struck by lightning, bitten by a shark, etc.

The whole shoot through issue, was pretty much a non-issue.

People missing their target and hitting other people, cars, property, etc that were not intended to be hit, is a whole other subject. That happens far too often.


Back to what I carry in my .45s,

I carry my own brand.

This:



I have run it run it in Glocks, 1911s, you name it.

It is a heavy, hard hitter.





The G21 is definitely what I shoot best when it comes to fast, accurate shooting, so it gets carried often in the outdoors. Plus the lightweight, high capacity and being pretty much impervious to the elements all make it a natural choice for an all around outdoorsman's gun.


Gets carried a LOT when packing out elk quarters:

Not being a gunfighter I still consider misses to be of a MUCH greater risk to bystanders than a pass thru. This considering the geography humans populate. After going thru 2 thicknesses of hoodie, a couple thicknesses of CHICAGO BULLS t-shirt, and a scrawny torso, a pistol round continuing its flight should have slowed considerably. Maybe a techy project to do with a block of ballistic jello as the stopper.

I have had a couple (few actually) either PM, text or email about 10mm, vs .45 or even .40s for carrying in the outdoors, and as dual/multi purpose guns. The main takeaway from the various discussions has been that everyone has different backgrounds when it comes to shooting and some that can handle a 9mm G17 with ease, may not be a good candidate for full power, max loaded 10mm loads. They tend to induce malfunctions unless you have an absolute perfect grip and rock solid fundamentals. Those rarely happen in emergency situations. Especially when you have been knocked down and are perhaps shooting one handed, bracing yourself with the other.

The other thing is that guy's environments vary a bit. That is not quite as important, as a good heavy for caliber slug tends to work well in most places and "overkill" is really rarely a problem. I shoot the 10mm and .45 frequently, but since I have used the .45 substantially more and have literally many hundreds of thousands of rounds of experience with it, I am just used to the recoil impulse and it makes for a good choice for me.

I will say that this new Gen 5 G21 is very soft shooting for a .45. Surprisingly so. If one were to shoot a regular 1911 next to it, they would be quite surprised. I am not knocking 1911s either, as anyone who knows me, knows I am a big time 1911 fan, and long time carrier of the platform.

Hard to go wrong with either a 10mm or .45, and while I like both, there is no question which on is my favorite.

I have a commander length 10mm with a titanium frame.


With the old 180 Corbon load it would lock the slide back if your thumb slipped off the slide stop.

I hear ya about inducing stoppages.

Mr. Mackay,
Great thread. Retired LE here. Just completed the USCCA instructor course and caught the "I need another gun bug". I was thinking about a 21 like your setup with an RDO because front sites don't look as crisp as they used to. I've carried the G22 for many years, the 27 as backup and the 29 for bowhunting in bear country.
I bought some hard cast 10mm for the 29 but never shot'em after being warned that Glock doesn't like'em. Has something changed with Glock or was my previous warning BS? It's obvious that yours likes'em pretty well. Good shooting in the cold BTW.

Any experience with the 41 vs. the 21 ???

It is not that the warnings are BS. There is a basis for them, and you have to look at it from the perspective from a manufacturer's standpoint. First and foremost, this is only my opinion and does not represent Glock or anybody else, BTW.

The whole "No Lead" thing stemmed from the very early Glock .40s. Guys who were handloading, and shooting competition were shooting a high volume of rounds through them. The thing is that not all "Lead" bullets are the same. Hardness and composition matters. Lots of guys were shooting properly cast bullets and had zero issues. The majority actually. But some guys who really did not know what they were doing were shooting super soft bullets that were leading up barrels badly. These were often home cast bullets made from wheel weights and unknown materials melted down. They melted down pretty much anything that looked like lead that they got from the tire shop and cast it into bullets.

Then they went and shot it and they leaded up their barrels badly and naturally it caused problems.

Glock said "No Lead Bullets".

It was a blanket statement. They could not say "If you know what you are doing, go for it. If you know what the right mix of lead, tin and antimony is, no problem. If you are being super cheap and trying to cut corners, then don't. "

You have to make product safety statements for cousin Cleetus who will try to hold the wrong end of a chainsaw while it is running. You can't make seperate statements for smart people, dumb people, "thrifty" people, etc. One size has to fit all.

Now with that said, I have fired well in excess of 100K rounds of hardcast bullets through various Glocks .45s with absolutely ZERO problems. I used to shoot competition and I ran literal bucket loads of 200 grain LSWCs through them.



They just ran and ran. But I also paid attention and kept them fairly clean. The .45 ACP is generally a pretty low pressure round in its standard format, so it was no big deal, and its about impossible to wear one out. I tried to wear out a couple G21s.

As far as the 10mms, like anything else, pay attention and keep you barrels clean and I expect that you will have zero problems. I have put a number of pretty darn hot loads through both Gen 3 and Gen 5 G20s. Both while shooting on my own, and while doing ammunition development.



The 10mm that I developed is specifically not maxed out. I purposely backed it off about 40 FPS. That was for reliability reasons. I took a couple friends as test subjects out shooting. They are pretty typical in that they are rifle hunters and handgun owners, but not big time handgun shooters. I found that while they could handle the maxed out loads (over 1200FPS) when standing upright, with both hands gripping hard on the gun and really focusing hard, it only was under perfect conditions, like when I was coaching them. The minute they slacked off, or tried to loosen up a bit, they had FTF malfunctions. Shooting while sitting on the ground was a mess.

Long story short, backing off in small increments, I found that 1150 FPS was the sweet spot. Guys could have plenty of power. They could shoot the gun two handed and while not super fast, they could at least shoot it from awkward positions and not have malfunctions.

So that is what I ended up offering. I realize most people when buying ammo only read the velocity and make their decisions based on that, but if they ever shot a couple boxes of their high performance 10mm, in positions that they may find themselves in on the trail, like knocked on your butt, they may have some revelations. Reliability is critical. I will sacrifice 40 FPS to make sure my gun goes bang every time.




So the NEW G21 has a Marksman barrel, which I understand has a pretty tight bore. Given the amazing accuracy, it makes sense. I have been told by other shooters who know I shoot some hardcast to pay attention to this and to clean my bore. I will shoot, clean and pay attention. No worries.

Until the Gen 5s I did not see a reason to upgrade from my Gen 3 guns, but the upgrades and accuracy are quite notable. I really don't get new guns often. Most will note that you don't see me jumping on the flavor of the week/month bandwagon. I have been carrying the same 1911s/Glocks/J Frame for many years. The Gen 5 guns are in my observation worth spending some coin, especially to put an RDO on for those of us who's front sights may be a bit fuzzy. There is no question the RDO has allowed pretty much anyone to take their accuracy game to a whole new level.

While I have played with it (the 41) and it is a superb gun, I have not spent enough time with one to give a valid "one vs the other" comparison. They would both need RDOs to really give them a fair shake.

Archer,

This is the optic I went with.

https://chpws.com/product/duty/

The Duty.

I cut and pasted some of the features:

FEATURES
10 Levels of brightness (levels 1 and 2 are night vision compatible)
Motion control (Shake to wake up)
Smart Power Management (auto-Off after 5 mins of inactivity)
50,000 Hours of Battery Life
CNC machine One-piece body (aircraft aluminum)
100% Shockproof (Rated for +P and +P+ Ammo)
Waterproof (ipx7, 1 meter for 30 mins)


Basically it will handle heavy, +P type ammo, Run for a super long time on a single battery and is fully enclosed.

Pretty dang ideal for an outdoors type gun.

Great information! Thanks for the in-depth response.

I like my 200g 10mm at 1150 as well. I've ran them much hotter but after some experimenting I've settled on 1150. The 200g xtp functions really well at 1150 for me. It expands a decent amount but not too much so it still penetrates well too. I need to experiment more with the 200g cast and powder coated bullets I made last summer. They were looking good over VVn105 and then that powder was discontinued.

Bb

BB,


Fortunately there are some very good powders on the market. The key is buying in BULK! It is a constant concern that one of the major manufacturers will scoop up all the available powder of a certain type and the little guys and handloaders will be out in the cold! I always try to keep a bit on hand, but it seems like I am constantly running out of some dang thing. 8# kegs just don't last as long as they used to that is for darn sure!

I had made a decision not to expand my .45 equipment beyond 1911's and Ruger convertibles. This definitive G21g5 post comes along from MS and now I have to get one.

Mackay, how has your experience been with the C&H optics? Just checked out their site and they have some good looking stuff.

May have to see if there is a new gen in 10mm. I rarely use 45 since we started using the 10mm it just does about everything we want better than the 45 did. Though will never get rid of the 45s.
Took a better barrel than factory on our older 20SFs to get better accuracy enough to shoot deer out to about 100 or so.

Thanks for the write up. I will keep my eyes open for a new 20.