Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Captain Thomas Weir, 7th Cavalry

The Battlefield Detectives video was quite informative. But what comes to my mind while watching it is the mindset of the 2 sides. The indians were protecting their homes, their homeland. Their very way of life was at stake. Imagine the anger and hatred inside the warriors as they fought their battles. Plus, the indian culture honored warrior behavior. The warriors grew up with an offensive idea. Counting coup and collecting scalps was a completely different culture from what the soldiers grew up with.
I try to imagine myself if my family, my loved ones, my way of life was in jeopardy from another people. I can understand the trauma the detectives found on the bones of the soldiers. I would have done the same thing.
The Little Big Horn was not just a battle of numbers. It was a battle of cultures. Unfortunately for the tribes, the numbers eventually won out.

Somewhat similar to the saga of The Man Who Wanted to be Left Alone frequently posted here. They knew by being driven to this their way of life would not recover. No downside to pure anger and hate. Injuns were destined for destruction.

Here’s a LBH participant I just came across….

Myles Moylan…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Moylan

1857, age 19,enlists in the 2nd Dragoons, possibly involved agains the Mormons probably posted to Texas patrolling against Comanches ( with little success). First Sergeant by 1861.

1861. Present at Battle of Wilson’s Creek (Missouri).

1862. Fort Henry, Fort Donelson, Shiloh. Promoted to 2nd Lieutenant 5th US Cavalry.

1863. Gettysburg. Later goes AWOL and enlists as a Private under an assumed name in the 4th Massachusetts Volunteer Cavalry.

1864-65 the 4th Massachusetts Cavalry was present Petersburg through Appomattox, by which time Moylan was a Brevet Major. Travels to California.

1866 enlists as a Private in the 7th US Cavalry. Quickly rises through the ranks.

1868 Present with Custer on the Washita, promoted to Captain.

1873 Yellowstone Expedition

1874 Black Hills Expedition

1876 LBH (serving under Reno)

1877 awarded a Medal of Honor after the Battle of Bear Paw (final act of Nez Perce War)

1890 Wounded Knee.

Promoted to Major 1892, retires to California 1893. Passed away in 1906.

There’s a guy who should have wrote a book

After the battle the Indian bands, expecting pursuit, scattered in all directions. IIRC most returned to the protection of the reservation. The following winter, one band of Lakotas still out was surprised by a unit of cavalry (under George Crook?) guided by Pawnee Scouts. The Lakotas had been up celebrating all night because their men had gone against the Shoshones in the depth of winter and returned with 30 Shoshone scalps.

Middle of winter, relentless pursuit, and they somehow spend the time and effort to go out and slaughter 30 Shoshone Indians.

One thing to consider is in the summer of ‘76 well more than 1,000 well-armed Lakota and Cheyenne Warriors were deep inside Crow Territory on the LBH.

Absent the quick response by US cavalry against those Lakotas and Cheyennes, it seems plausible that the Crows could have suffered devastating losses.

Here is a view you won’t ever see. This is from the bluffs above the site of the Lone Teepee. The line of trees and shrubs in the center, continuing clear to the right of the picture, is Reno Creek. In the right side of the picture, there is a visible knob that is known as Gerard’s knoll, where Scout Francis Gerard first saw the mounted Indians running toward the Little Bighorn River. From the knob, down toward the river is where the lone Teepee was that Custer’s Indian scouts discovered.

The brown field is where Custer and Reno came down the South Fork of Reno creek to the Middle Fork and the Morass that is referred to many times, for watering horses and trying to cross Reno Creek.

Understanding the sequence of the events of the battle, this becomes a pivotal site, as this is where it all started and Custer sent Reno down Reno Creek to strike the Indian village. This is also where McDougall arrived with the pack train, where Benteen came back in contact with that column and where Boston Custer left the pack train to join his brother on the Little Bighorn.


Many people have little understanding the significance of the Lone Teepee site in regards to the historic value of this location…

From what I have read, CPT Weir never spoke of what he saw from Weir’s point. There is mention from other troopers of what they saw, but nothing official from CPT Weir on what he saw of Custer’s fight. Was there any mention of him telling Libby of what he witnessed? What can be seen of last stand hill from Weir’s point.

After the Civil War, Custer spent some time here in Elizabethtown KY, most of that assignment was spent up in Louisville entertaining VIPs.

This is standing on top of Weir point. It is prominent enough to see Last Stand Hill from there, although it isn’t in view in this picture…

Yeah I've been there. It's a special experience and meant a lot to me because Custer has been an object of my studies ever since I was a kid

Weir supposedly left an Affidavit to what he saw with an Irish reporter, I believe his name was Kelly. It was supposedly pretty critical of Benteen and, especially Reno.
When Kelly left the states, the affidavit was given to Whittaker who was writing a bio of Custer.
It disappeared, if it ever existed, after Weir died.
Tom Weir wrote to Libbie Custer and Maggy Calhoun that if he shared what he saw at LBH , it would gladden their hearts and ease his mind shortly before he died.
Edgerly also claimed they had plenty of time to get to Custer, but if they had, they’d have shared his fate.
Also lt DeRudio said, “had we not been commanded by a coward, we’d have been killed.”
The Reno Inquiry was a white wash. Too many people from Reno on up would have lost a lot of face had the truth ever came out.
Nobody can say with certainty, what took place on Reno Hill as far as trying to get to Custer’s battalion.
But it definitely provokes some speculation in the minds of us history buffs!
Reon

This is true and the takeaway from all this is simply;

Reno was a poor but not inexperienced leader with no soul and cared for no one but himself.

Benteen was as capable as any cavalry officer could be, but hated Custer and he took too long to come to Custer’s aid.

Weir disobeyed orders to follow other orders to go to Custer’s aid, which did get Reno and Benteen to follow up to Weir point, only to be overwhelmed and sent back to their defensive site.

Everything else is like watching Indians play basketball. You don’t have a team of 5 Indians playing basketball, you have 5 teams of single Indians playing basketball…

Here's another video I came across while watching some of the one's posted above. It puts more dings in Custer's character. I'm in no way an expert on this subject. There are guys on here who are way more knowledgeable than myself. Seems to me that Custer didn't actually know how to fight Indians. He was very successful during the Civil War, but the Indians fought differently . The Indians during battle didn't need to be commanded. They did what they had to do to kill the enemy. As said above they were fighting for their way of life . It was an honor to die fighting the enemy. With the Calvary it seemed to be more of a sense of duty. After watching some of the videos it seems Custer thought the Indians would run away instead of run to the fight. The evidence of the way the Indians mutilated the soldier's bodies showed how brutal they fought. The fact that they were outnumbered and out gunned makes me think that Custer was a glory hound . Seems like he should have turned back and waited for more troops and artillery. Alot of what we read and hear is speculation. We will never know the truth about what really happened and why Custer did what he did.

When Penny and I were in Montana in 2017, I went to a living history exhibit at Ft Buford, near Williston SD.
While there, I met this fellow Gerry Schultz webpage .
Pretty nice fellow, and we spent over an hour talking about the LBH.
Gerry was putting together a book about Peter Thompson. He’d spent a lot of time walking in Thompson’s footsteps on the LBH battlefield.
He had a map overlaid with a timeline backing up Thompson’s story of what he saw that day.
If the book was ever completed, I have no idea.
Reon

How many Indian casualties?

Good video, DD. Thanks for posting it!
Shrapnel, as always you’re dead right.
This has been a helluva good thread. Lotta good information by some knowledgeable folks, and I thank each of you.
Regarding “The Last Stand” I keep think of “Uncle Hubb’s” speech from “Second Hand Lions”!
“Sometimes the things that may or may not be true, are the things you have to believe in the most.”
Did Custer and his men go down fighting to the last man and the last bullet?
Probably not. But we each need to have heroes in our lives, true or not, and General Custer surely fits the mold for some!😀
As the fellow said at the end of the video. The American myth is standing up against impossible odds, because what you’re doing is right! I certainly believe that, but then it’s no longer taught.😟
Reon

There’s many conflicting theories, running from a couple dozen to near a thousand!
From my own reading, I’d guess maybe 200 to 250, but the Indians took care of their dead and wounded, and no white man knows for sure.
As I said, most everything we know about Custer’s battalion is based on speculation and historical evidence.
Dang, I really need to get back out there and walk that ground.
Like most battlefields, the more you know about it, the more the terrain talks to you!
Gettysburg is always a surreal experience for me because I have read so much about it.
Both my spouses told me at different times, they thought maybe I died there.😀
I need to die a little at the Littlebig Horn and at San Antonio at The Alamo!😀
Reon

Did they use burial mounds?

I would argue that Custer knew exactly how to fight Plains Indians. Stealth followed by speed and surprise. The object to being in part to capture women and children which would limit further hostilities. This tactic having worked for Custer against the Cheyennes in ‘68 and for Ranald McKenzie against the Comanches in ‘74.

Custer’s tactics could have worked fine against a regular-sized Indian camp.


Yes and no. Speaking in generalities Indians did not so much fight battles as much as they went on raids. It was all about stealth followed by speed and surprise, preferably with the odds heavily in their favor. Achieving that required coordinated actions under the direction of a leader, part of whose prestige depended upon keeping everyone alive.

OTOH so much surprise and confusion at the LBH, with an unprecedented number of combatants present on the Indian side. Not much in the way of instructions was needed anyway.


Because they almost always did as long as their women and children could escape also.



Seems like they did that most of the time to everyone they killed regardless of the circumstances, tho exceptionally brave fallen enemies might be left untouched or even covered with a buffalo robe.


By which time there might be no hostiles within 50 miles….

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Germans in the Seventh U.S. Cavalry
https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2880&context=facpub

Maybe we shot each other in Pickett’s charge🤣😂