Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires 457 stock refinish ???

I need some stock refinishing advice. First of all let me clarify that I am not a wood worker or refinisher. I can screw up practically anything to do with that type of work. I am looking for simple and easy.

So here is the issue - I have a CZ 457 American on the way and it has a walnut stock the "muddy" looking finish on it. What I am looking for is ideas for a stripper that will remove that finish (whatever it is) and not leave a lot of fuzz on the wood that requires sanding - I can really screw things up with a piece of sandpaper. Hopefully after stripping I can get by with just using some 0000 steel wool.

Then I need ideas for finish to put on the stock. I am looking for simple, not something that requires multiple layers of hand-rubbed finish. I just want to put something on it that will protect the wood and look better than the "mud" finish.
I can see through the "mud" finish enough to know that there is no character to the wood so there is not any point in wasting a lot of time doing something that I don't enjoy.

In the past I used a product called Deft One-Step but it must have been too good because it is no longer available. Is there something similar that anyone knows of - Tru-Oil perhaps, or MinWax with built in stain? Or any other ideas for something that don't require hours and hours of rubbing and drying.

I am already starting to think about rattle canning with a fine grit finish. While that would be the easiest I really like wood and if I rattle can it then the stock will just look like a painted synthetic stock.

I am posting this question on the Rimfire and Gunwriter forum for maximum exposure.

drover

Replied at Gunwriter's thread - HOWARD Feed n Wax - Wood Conditioner & Beeswax Polish

Scroll down until you find the post that Sitka Deer made. It concerns taking care of the mud finish.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/19102855/2/cz-457-american

Regards drover:
Deft is a lacquer. Lacquer has the properties of being fast to tack, offers a respray within a short time and if the finish is damaged it will agglomerate. In other words additional coats bond to the previous unlike polyurethane finishes which layer or lay on top of the previous coats. It will enhance depth rather than shift or colorize the grain. Minwax semigloss or satin might be considered.

Although somewhat tedious, taping off any checkering until the last coat will preserve the feature. Waxes and linseed oils darken over time and will need to be periodically refreshed. These also integrate to a previous coat making repairs without cratering possible.

Jasco stripper will work. Sand the existing finish before application in order to open the surface and allow the stripper to penetrate. Brush it on, allow time for it to work and scrape off dissolved finish. This will probably require repeated applications. When through with stripping, wash with water to neutralize any remaining chemical action. When dry tape off any checkering (optional but recommended) and sand in line with the grain with 220 sandpaper, then finer grit as you wish. Avoid steel wool, it will embed strands in the grain and present concerns in the future. Allow the first coat of your chosen finish to dry, sand lightly. Repeat until the desired surface appearance is obtained, then remove the tape from the checkering and apply a heavier final coat.

A light coat of tung oil or Minwax "Antique Oil Finish" can be sanded into the grain for a slurry type of grain filler, wipe with mineral spirits and sand between coats. These can be hand rubbed for a final finish and will impart a slight but not unattractive amber coloration to the stock. Tru Oil is a favorite. There are numerous approaches, give them consideration. Think of it as a labor of love and don't get in a hurry. Good luck.

Bumping up for more ideas

Thanks to all who have responded so far

drover

I've put a minwax satin clear wipe on poly on many of wood 22s. Easy to apply, not to messy. Two or three coats and done. You don't really rub it in, just wipe it on with a lint free cloth.

Go to rimfire central and look at some of the ones they have done, There may be a sticky in the CZ section telling you how. if not just research it they usually have some nice grain under the mud.

I just started this stock stripping tonight. I first tried Kleen-strip and then lacquer thinner, neither did much. But MEK will take the finish off. I found the finish pretty tough and not wanting to come right off, my guess would be that this finish CZ uses is a type of water base. There was some talk on RFC about soaking socks and putting them over the stock to saturate the finish and that would work but I didn’t want to take the chance with using MEK and having the plastic pillars get damaged. So I started by applying the MEK with a brush and then scraping the finish off but I pretty quickly resorted to dipping 0000 steel wool into a bowl of MEK and just rubbing the finish off. It took me about 2 1/2 hours to remove the finish and when I was done I found that the stock I had was made out of a piece of dark straight grain walnut. So when I’m done I will still have a dark walnut stock. Hopefully with a little more depth to the finish. I’m planning on using Tru-oil for that.

It turned to a tan once the MEK evaporated out of the wood.

Looking good.
I've heard there are always dark area's in the wood from the stain even after stripping. What is your opinion on that?

After the first coat of tru-oil.

Hey, that's looking pretty nice.

There’s a few dark spots in this one too but it’s not from the old finish, it’s naturally occurring in the wood, I don’t think it’s really that high grade of walnut but the spots really don’t bother me. If I didn’t do any more to the stock in my opinion it’s way better looking that the factory dark finish. I think you could just put a couple coats of linseed oil and be done with it. There’s no finish in the checkering yet, I’ll thin the finish down and only put one coat at the very end to seal it.

Wow! I'm duly impressed. Nice work.

That's going to be beautiful. Tru oil seems to really bring out the character and figure in those kinds of stocks.

Drover, I hope my posts give you some ideas on what you can expect when removing the CZ finish, it wasn’t my intent to take over your thread but if you think these will help you I can post a couple more for you as I go forward. Since it’s winter and 60% humidity where I live the finishing will probably go slower than normal, it takes a long time for the Tru-oil to harden up in this weather.

Namuh - that is really coming out great, keep us updated.

To all who have replied, and others - this is a real learning experience for me. Please keep information coming, it is apparent that there are a great many ways to improve the mud finish.

drover

Ok, in this humidity the stock is just as tacky as it was yesterday. I cleared some space out in my wife’s closet, put in a small floor heater and hung the stock. Hopefully it will dry before my wife notices. 🤣

Haha she might just wonder why her cloths smell. Just be careful the checkering will fill up with anything you apply. Also the previous finish that soaked into the grain may be fighting your tru oil

I’ve done a number of stocks over the years and I knew doing this in the winter would pose a problem with the Tru-oil drying. I’ve hung them in a makeshift drying cabinet made out of a large cardboard appliance box with a heater in the bottom… the closet was just on the spur of the moment. I try to keep the finish totally out of the checkering until the stock is completed, sealing the checkering is the last thing I do. It looked like I removed all the old finish but I’m sure there may still be some down in the pores. I very lightly sanded the stock with 400 grit sandpaper after I had stripped it with the MEK and 0000 steel wool, then I wiped it down again with MEK and lint free paper towels. The wood was slick and looking down through the grain I didn’t see any remaining finish. The wood is what I’d consider serviceable but not a high grade piece hence the CZ dark finish that covers or blends in the dark blotches that are naturally occurring in the walnut. I feel a natural look is still better than the muddy finish that was on it.

With a bit of luck with the post office being on time I should have my 457 American on Friday. It's going to be a little cool here (28) but I have a shooting bench on my deck so I can step out and take some shots to at least see if it has promise. If it shoots as well as I hope then I will decide what to do about the stock finish.

drover

Here’s a picture of the first coat of Tru-oil finish on the butt stock. Still tacky in places but after three days of drying it’s started to finally flatten out and dry to the touch, probably another three or four days before it can be handled. I did move it out of the closet and re-hung the clothes back up 🤣.

drover, hope you can post a picture when you get your new gun on Friday.

Will do - here is a link to the ad where I bought it. It's hard to tell what the wood may look like underneath the mud but Iam not seeing any indication of figure in it.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...re-fs-cz-457-american-22-lr#Post19154906

I ordered mine online, sight unseen 🤣. When I open the box and saw it I knew first hand what everyone meant by “mud finish”, in the darkly lighted building it just looked brown. I didn’t really care at the time because it’s mainly for hunting and a little target shooting and since I don’t baby my guns, it’ll be marked up in short order. When it showed it had the potential to be fairly accurate was when I decided to strip the brown off. Here’s a couple of pictures of when I first bought Mud Hen home and a couple targets, CCI standard velocity 40gn 1070 fps, my first 5 shots out of it at 25yds after I bore sighted and mounted the scope, the other’s at 50yds after putting about 75 rounds through it, right after this group my next was terrible and then I noticed the scope had moved on me. The CCI’s worked pretty good for me in this rifle but you may get different results.




I looked at the pictures of your new gun, to me it looks like there’s some grain under the finish. Take a bright light and look at it when you get it in hand.

Did you get your gun?

Well the first coat of Tru-oil was dry enough to handle after sitting for about nine days. I got a little side tracked chasing squirrels after finding a piece of leftover ebony I had used for another project. Probably not everybody’s cup of tea but I decided to add a cap to the pistol grip, not perfect, but it looks ok. Then I got the idea to inlay a squirrel. While hunting last year I found a late 1800’s piano that somebody had dumped out in the woods and I was able to remove and save the ivory from the keys. So this is what I’ve been working on the last couple of days. I think I’m going to try and do something with the butt plate too. 🤣

following... like the grip cap... now for an ebony fore end Tip!...

I wish I could do that but I don’t have the tools, I do have an old horn butt plate and another piece of 1/8” ebony I might try using to replace the original with. I’m not sure what the thinking is putting a recoil pad on a .22 rimfire.

You sure do good work! That is quite an improvement on that stock after one coat of Tru Oil. I can’t tell for sure from the latest pictures, but have you put any on the checkering yet?

I’m picking up a 457 later this afternoon. It has the classic muddy finish. Not sure if I’ll live with it or try a similar refinish.

I haven't made time for a trip to town yet, I will likely go in and pick it up on Thurday.

I did talk to the FFL and he said in his opininon it wasn't as bad as some of the ones he has seen.

Nice job on the grip cap - I wish I had that much patience and skill.

drover

No there isn’t any finish in the checkering yet, probably the last thing I’ll do to the stock.

There’s definitely lighter brown finishes in some of the pictures I’ve seen and it depends on the lighting when you’re looking at them.

i find the 457 LOP a bit short for me... i have a 1" Limbsaver "grind to fit" (size medium) recoil pad Part #10542, leftover from another project.. it has a nearly the same curved shape on the face as the CZ's butt pad... i think it would look fine on a 457... if the medium don't fit, they may offer a small?...

For me rather than fit a new longer recoil pad I would just make up a spacer to adjust the length of pull, I’d keep the original pad since the one that comes on the gun is pretty nice.

I finally picked up the CZ457 yesterday, I was pleasantly surprised it could pass as a new unfired rifle, there is not a mark on the wood or metal.
The other good news is that the stock finish is not as muddy as some others I have looked at, it certainly wouldn't qualify as a great finish but it is good enough that I can live with it. The wood does appears to be fairly plain underneath the mud.

The barrel sets perfectly aligned in the channel and has a minimal amount of free-float, testing bedding by loosening and tightening the action screws while holding my thumb on the barrel at the fore-end the bedding feels solid. I ran some patches through it and mounted a scope and planned on shooting it to establish an accuracy baseline before doing anything more to it.

Today has turned out to be a beautiful blue sky however the temp is only 28 and winds are 15 -20 mph so shooting will have to wait for a better day.

I'll get some pictures up in a few days.

drover

Man, that's great drover. I can't wait to see the photo's and the groups. What scope are you going to mount?

I am happy that you are satisfied with the stock. But a piece of me was hoping you would try the OOOO steel wool approach that Mule Deer suggested. So I could decide if I want to attempt it. 😋

Congratulations on getting your new gun and hope you enjoy it. If you can live with the finish I would, stripping a stock isn’t all that much fun. I steel wooled the first coat of the Tru-oil down today and hopefully will get the second coat on her tomorrow. I fitted a butt plate from a old horn Browning auto 5 that I lamented to a piece of ebony and turned down some old butt plate screws to fit it. Didn’t turn out quite like I expected, the horn is heated and pressed with the Browning script and the process compacts the horn completely through it, you can’t sand it far enough down to completely remove the lettering. When you polish it you can still see it under the shine. I’ve never did this before and so I found out that you don’t believe everything you read in Hobby Gunsmithing or Home Gunsmighting Digest. 🤣😂🤣

I put the second coat of Tru-oil on this morning. The old bottle I had was drying extremely slow so I bought a new bottle yesterday and it’s drying time looks to be much faster. So live and learn, start with fresh Tru-oil.

FYI, using a radiant heater I’m able to get the Tru-oil dry in about four hours. I was able to get three coats on her today.

Have you had a chance to shoot your new gun yet?

I am slowly getting used to the finish on it, it is not nearly as offensive as some that I have seen. I will not be doing anything to it - as much as I dislike doing woodwork it would likely turn out looking horrible anyway.

The good news - I did shoot it yesterday and it shows a lot of promise.

It was a nice blue sky and calm day but only aout 15 degrees - I have a shooting bench for my 50 yard rimfire target on my back deck and it is only about 6 ft from my backdoor. I kept the ammo in the house and would load the magazine inside then step out and shoot, that way the ammo was at a warm temperature (In my experience cold rimfire ammo does not shoot as well as warm ammo does).

I only tried a couple of different ammos - CCI S/V and Norma TAC, the CCI was right at 1/2" for 5 shots at 50 yds and the Norma TAC was near 3/4" for 5 shots at 50yds, I only did three 5 shot groups of each. I was really pleased that it likes the CCI since I have lots of it. The Norma had vertical stringing in an almost perfect up and down with very little horizontal, less than a bullet width - I have never encountered that before with the Norma so I don't know what to think about that.
I will wait until the barrel gets some more rounds down it and warmer temps before trying some mid-grade ammo.

drover

Well, today I was back in my LGS and they had a new CZ 457 American in there rack, I should never have taken a look at it….. wood lottery, tiger strips up and down the stock, I’m a little envious of whoever will walk out with that one. I came home and put another coat of finish on my Mud Hen… 😂

Did you try adjusting the torque a little up or down on the action screws?

if that was a 22 WMR and they were willing to ship, i might? be interested... maybe shoot me a PM please... hell, i might even consider a barrel swap, depending on the wood & the price ...

It looks like my son-in-law is headed over to get it.

I have the rifle but have not had a chance to shoot it yet. I’m not as fortunate as Drover — it’s a 45 minute drive to my club range in Colorado. And I will be traveling a lot until early spring so it may be a good while before I shoot it. But I’m sure glad to have it and am optimistic about its accuracy.

I just made sure that the action screws were snug. I only did a total of 30 shots, 15 ov the CCI A/V and 15 of the Norma TAC, just enough to see if it held any promise of accuracy. When the weather warms a bit I will play with the action screws - first results are promising though.

drover

I had to try another group out of the 457 since is 30 F., dead calm, and I was bored.

The group is 10 shots at 50 yards using a good lot of CCI S/V that I keep stashed for testing since this particular lot shoots as well as most mid-level match ammo.
The small squares are 1/4" so it looks like an easy 1/2" group for 10 shots, I can live with that. Especially for nothing being done to rifle except for a lighter trigger spring.

It's a sort of good news - bad news thing. I bought the rifle expecting to have to refinish the stock but it is good enough that I can live with it and it shoots well enough that I can't see doing anything to it except testing some more ammo in it. But then I ask myself "if it shoots this good with $4.00 per box ammo what is the point".

I’d be hard pressed to try much else!

Excellent shooting drover. Looks like yours is a winner.

This is a perfect example of why I like CCI SV ammo so much.

Nice shooting, drover.

I wouldn’t change a thing, I think that accuracy is excellent and you’re definitely ready for the squirrel woods.

Here is a picture of the stock after ten very thin coats of Tru-oil, I put 20 drops into a small bowl per coat and still have a little left when I’m done.

Tag

Boil the horn buttplate (after sanding off the Tru-Oil) and the pressed horn will pop right up. Allow it to dry for at least a couple weeks and refinish.

Steel wool is a no-no on good finish. It leaves tiny shards which will eventually freckle and broadcast their presence...

This was the first time I’d tried this with a Browning horn butt plate, I did boil the horn but maybe about two hours wasn’t enough. I didn’t boil it to remove the script but to flatten the curve out of it. The horn was removed and immediately clamped on a flat piece of metal. If you look at the picture you can see the clamp marks that pressed into the hot horn. Afterwords when trying to sand the script out, I found that it went all the way through and it would not come out. I did a search and read on a shotgun forum that others had tried the exact same thing and had the same results. On this particular piece of horn when it was heated and the script pressed into it under pressure, it looked like the density or the lower portion below the raised script was completely changed.
There isn’t any Tru-oil on the horn, I polished it after sanding and that’s its natural shine.
I had also read that after using steel wool any small fragments could rust and you could later see them through the finish. I haven’t seen it in any stocks I’ve personally done and some I have sitting in front of me I did in the late 1970’s. I keep waiting for Tru-oil to change there directions but after thirty plus years it still says to use 00 steel wool, I’ve always used 0000 myself 🤣.

For reference in case anybody else is thinking of trying this, here’s the before and after pictures of the refinish. I tried to take them in the same lighting for comparisons. The stock color is lighter and more honey colored now than the original brown finish and has much more depth to it when looking into the grain of the wood. I’m going to let the Tri-oil set for awhile and then I’ll take down the gloss and wax it.

This is exactly why I refinish many of the rifles I purchase . The factory finishes on so many rifles is muddy and covers up some really beautiful grain most of the time IMO. Sometimes the difference is enough to make you say "wow" once you get the finish on. Even several of my Kimbers needed refinishing and the difference is night and day ...

Namuh, you probably already know this if you've been doing this awhile, but let the Truoil cure for at least 30 days before knocking down the gloss so it can cure completely. If you're in a very humid area it may take a bit more time for it to fully cure. I've been warned about this when I first started doing stock work and my impatience wouldn't allow me to wait that long. I paid the price by having to redo several finished projects until I learned to wait . It does make a difference I found out....

What are you planning on using to knock down the gloss on your finish? I've been experimenting with a couple new techniques lately and getting pretty good results, but I'm always curious what others do...

Bob

I’ve found that with the humidity here it can take twice as long for a product to cure on its own, with this stock I’m forcing it to dry by using a radiant heater place about 24” from it and then hanging it above a wood stove. When I’ve nocked the finish down with 0000 steel wool it’s coming off white and powdery so the Tru-oil is dry, no gumminess or loading. The directions say a minimum of two hours before you can lightly buff it so I’ve been waiting about four hours. The stock finish is just utilitarian for me and since it’s for mostly hunting it’s going to get banged around it short order. I also lightly sealed all the wood surfaces while I have it apart, barrel channel, action inletting, the butt and the screw holes for the sling swivel studs. As of right now I’m going to lightly polish the stock with 0000 steel wool, then wax it with Trewax (carnauba flooring wax), I usually apply a couple coats of wax with a lint free towel dipped in a little cold water that helps to set the wax and makes it very hard, (spit shine if you were in the military).

I think I’m about ready to call this one done. I took about 20% off the gloss of the Tru-oil finish with 0000 steel wool, I then started to polish it off with a little diatomaceous earth and paint thinner but the bottom of this checkering is very roughly finished and it would have taken longer to clean it out than what it’s worth. On the checkering and its borders, I cleaned any finish out that inadvertently lapped over it and applied a coat of boiled linseed oil, I let it soak in for about 10 minutes and wiped out any remaining with a tooth brush and a lint free towel. I finished it off with two coats of Trewax and buffed it off. All in all my happy with the results and don’t regret starting it, to me it looks better than the dark brown finish I started with.

Has anyone tried Mule Deer’s suggestion on the thread in Ask the Gunwriters? He suggested rubbing with OOOO steel wool to knock the mud down showing more grain. Seems like a reasonable thing to try for someone who is intimidated by the whole stripping process as I am.

Sitka deer suggested using Formby’s Furniture Refinisher with rough rags. It looks like that product has been discontinued by a large firm that produces Minwax Furniture Refinisher and I see reports that many think it is not nearly as good. Apparently there are a few sellers of old stock of Formby’s but it’s pricey — $149 for a pint!

After putting another hundred rounds through my 457 American I found that the polished horn butt plate was just too slick, it keep sliding around on my shoulder. So I took it off and tooled in a jack rabbit to keep the squirrel some company.

I like the jackrabbit. Very cool. The only problem I'd have is it reduces the LOP. I'm leaving my new CZ 457 American just the way it is now. It's shooting great, after glass bedding and freefloating. I may remove the original recoil pad down the road, and add a red pachmayr, but I can't afford to lose any LOP. Your rifle looks great! Nice work..

I don't mind the dark brown finish on my new rifle:


While it's not nearly as nice as my 52 sporter, it's not bad. Could be a lot worse. The main thing with my rifle was the barrel was riding on the stock a little bit, and not quite centered through the barrel channel. Got that fixed, and properly glass bedded it, and now it's damn near perfect.



That's all that is required. Like I've said before, if you think you can squish the plastic pillars, good luck with that. It's not going to happen. Since the steel recoil lug is in the back of the receiver on these rifles, a good epoxy pad under the chamber and a little at the face of the receiver, is all that is needed. Others can do it how they want, but that was my approach, and I look at things in a mechanical manner.

Also, the targets downrange show some proof. It's always nice to be able to show proof, when a certain method works.





Also, as I've said before, these are not "target" or benchrest rifles. However, the rifle is performing as well as I would have hoped, after a little work.

I agree though, if you can live with the factory finish, do it. Some can, and others not so much. Most times I' am more focused on the mechanics, but try to start with a rifle that is not hard on the eye. Some of these 457 American's are worse than others. Which is why it's taken me over 2 years to finally lay my money down. I've seen some that were absolutely gorgeous. Some I've kicked myself in the azz for not buying.

After reading all of the comments and seeing pictures of how different stock refinish projects have turned out I am just going to live with the dark factory finish. Like I mentioned in the original post I don't have the patience or knack for doing a nice refinish, mine would likely turn out poorly.

As far as accuracy - I have the action screws tightened to where that when one or the other is loosened there is no movement of the barrel that can be felt when holding on to the fore-end tip of the rifle with my thumb against the barrel. It seems to want to shoot right around 1/2" ten shot groups at 50 yds with ammo it likes. While it is not becnhrest accuracy it is plenty good enough for gopher shooting.

The 457 American is by far the most ammo sensitive rifle I have ever owned though - perhaps I am just spoiled by my Tikka T1x 22LR though, it shoots any ammo very well and with mid-level ammo it really shines.

Some 457 group pocs using inexpensive ammo - the broad black lines are 1" and the small inner lines are 1/4" for reference

5 shots @ 50 yds Norma TAC


10 shots @ 50 yds Norma TAC


10 shots @ 50 yds CCI S/V - a lot which groups very well out of any of my 22's

Nice clean job on the bedding. So you just bedded about 3 or 4 inches of the barrel in front of the action? Any bedding around the rear lug?

It's always nice when they cluster in like that. I also agree, that my 457 is not my most accurate rifle. It is a lot more finicky than any of my other rifles. Even my new to me 1974 Winchester model 320 shoots better. The new to me Winchester 52 sporter shoots lights out with many different types of ammo as well. I do like and appreciate a rifle much more, when it shoots cheap ammo good. From my experience, most rifles will shoot the expensive ammo real well, when properly tuned and the mechanicals right. That is good that your rifle shoots CCI SV well, that ammo is $5/box at wally world. That's a great rifle that shoots ammo like that well. My favorite ammo to test different rifles with is the Federal Automatch. I have a lot of boxes of that stuff, because it's always inexpensive. I bought a bunch when it was like $18/box. Some of the newer boxes were $21/box. The strange thing is some of my rifles prefer the newer stuff over the old boxes I have. Go figure...

This is real world results with my 457 and cheap wally world Federal Automatch^^^ The Kidd barreled 10/22 will put that ammo into a small ragged hole.

I think the cheapest ammo, besides the Fed Automatch, that I've used in the 457, that really surprised me was the copper plated older Aguila. That stuff shot way above its price point ($4.95/box):


I even shot the St. Patrick's day challenge I posted in this forum, with that ammo in my new 457, because it seemed to shoot well enough. Didn't score quite as high (62) as I was hoping for, but again, it's not a benchrest or even a varmint type rifle.


You should try that shoot with yours. Elijah is accepting targets until the end of this month.

It doesn't need it, as the action is very solid in the stock right now. Kind of locked in, in fact. Just the way I like them.