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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2 |
Got it! Thanks!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2 |
Take this and reduce to range and MOA come-up only Exactly. My point is there's no real relatability issue because you could read off the mils come up column just as easily. I can't debate that point, touche!
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13 |
It's all in the togetherness of the system. Reticle shows clongs, dials adjust in clongs, dope chart in clongs = all set.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8 |
Take this and reduce to range and MOA come-up only Exactly. My point is there's no real relatability issue because you could read off the mils come up column just as easily. +1 And mrad simplifies any mental computation by using base-10 increments, but MOA is serviceable, as well.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8 |
Got it! Thanks! Good choice. I've been using Ballistic:AE for years, and after using most of the others, it is still my preference.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,210 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,210 Likes: 1 |
Two things: 1) does it look like a 24mm objective? 2) your link takes us to a page where in big bold letters the scope is labeled as a 42mm objective.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,580 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,580 Likes: 2 |
Got it! Thanks! What is the significance of 214 yards, in red?
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,576 Likes: 8 |
Got it! Thanks! What is the significance of 214 yards, in red? PBR using a 5" vital zone radius.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,690 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,690 Likes: 2 |
Agree about the center dot's Jordan. Really just started using more of them recently and really like them up close for target work or planting it on hide/fur at distance. On lower power scopes for targets I really like a center diamond around a floating dot or a mil/MOA type reticle that has hash marks in even increments from the center that I can use to frame the circle on a target or a steel disc. Hunting we do, a #4 with an illuminated dot is my favorite but a lot of my hunting scopes are a simple duplex. Our hunting is mostly in close, in thick woods though. Hunting I’m rarely above 4-5x because that’s what I leave a variable set at. Normally no need or no time to crank it up.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,690 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,690 Likes: 2 |
And I’m with Jordan, an MOA reticle is doable but mils are so much simpler especially with FFP Why anyone ever produced a scope with Mil reticle and MOA adjustments is beyond me, Absolutely stupid
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
And I’m with Jordan, an MOA reticle is doable but mils are so much simpler especially with FFP Why anyone ever produced a scope with Mil reticle and MOA adjustments is beyond me, Absolutely stupid When you don't understand how things happened much of history will befuddle you. Leupold was the first scope manufacturer to offer a Mil reticle. At that time all adjustments in the high end Leupolds were MOA. Nobody offered a Mil Reticle with Mil adjustments at that time so just having a Mil reticle was ground breaking. Through Premier Reticle I had custom reticles in MOA and adjustments in MOA long before you knew which end of a Red Ryder spit out the BBs. You and girlz like you sit back with 30years of hindsight and whine but have no understanding of how and why the things you take for granted were pushed into production. Zip those lips and enjoy what the PLAYERS have done to give you so many reticle and adjustment options. Custom MOA reticle and MOA adjustments long before any scope had Mil Reticle/Mil Adjustments.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,365 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,365 Likes: 13 |
Agree about the center dot's Jordan. Really just started using more of them recently and really like them up close for target work or planting it on hide/fur at distance. On lower power scopes for targets I really like a center diamond around a floating dot or a mil/MOA type reticle that has hash marks in even increments from the center that I can use to frame the circle on a target or a steel disc. Hunting we do, a #4 with an illuminated dot is my favorite but a lot of my hunting scopes are a simple duplex. Our hunting is mostly in close, in thick woods though. Hunting I’m rarely above 4-5x because that’s what I leave a variable set at. Normally no need or no time to crank it up. I hunt about the same kinda places at home and run similar stuff. This year we took a few elk around and I don't think the scope went above 8X or so (490, 595 and 605 were the last readings before the shots). Brother and I have been shooting the SS 6X's for so long, anything above that seems like ALOT more. It is nice to have on target work, but on elk sized stuff 8X was plenty, especially with the dot in the center. The scope was a 3-18 so it had a bunch more to go, but as you know, sometimes you don't have a ton of time to mess with stuff. Lotsa ways to skin the cat and I think whatever works for you to get a shot down range as quick as possible is best.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,606 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,606 Likes: 2 |
And I’m with Jordan, an MOA reticle is doable but mils are so much simpler especially with FFP Why anyone ever produced a scope with Mil reticle and MOA adjustments is beyond me, Absolutely stupid When you don't understand how things happened much of history will befuddle you. Leupold was the first scope manufacturer to offer a Mil reticle. At that time all adjustments in the high end Leupolds were MOA. Nobody offered a Mil Reticle with Mil adjustments at that time so just having a Mil reticle was ground breaking. Kahles made a Mil-Dot reticle w/MIL adjustments in 1969, the ZF69. Does Leupold's Mil-Dot option pre-date the Kahles?
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2 |
Got it! Thanks! What is the significance of 214 yards, in red? I had the same?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2 |
In my inquiry re MIL v MOA, there was much debate but it appeared to come down to personal preference to most and it appeared that MIL had a stronger following but nobody would come out and say MOA was not ok. It was more a matter of what others were using in group events, everyone wanting to use the same standard. I was on the fence but an instructor at a shooting school that I highly regard said they use MOA at the school now but had used MIL in the past, that was good enough for me to tilt slightly in the direction of MOA.
As others have stated, dialing with dope cards, the come-up is just as easy with either although I've noticed that the MOAs are less finite, ie 3.1, 4.5, 7.5 vs 0.9, 1.3 or 2.2 for MIL if that makes any difference for people who need to wear glasses to read but don't have them handy for hunting/shooting.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,365 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,365 Likes: 13 |
In my inquiry re MIL v MOA, there was much debate but it appeared to come down to personal preference to most and it appeared that MIL had a stronger following but nobody would come out and say MOA was not ok. It was more a matter of what others were using in group events, everyone wanting to use the same standard. I was on the fence but an instructor at a shooting school that I highly regard said they use MOA at the school now but had used MIL in the past, that was good enough for me to tilt slightly in the direction of MOA.
As others have stated, dialing with dope cards, the come-up is just as easy with either although I've noticed that the MOAs are less finite, ie 3.1, 4.5, 7.5 vs 0.9, 1.3 or 2.2 for MIL if that makes any difference for people who need to wear glasses to read but don't have them handy for hunting/shooting. I agree 257. It's a unit of measure. Get whatever one you feel best with. It don't make a bit of difference. I like mils, just since it is a 10 based system and I drag knuckles when I walk, but I can get along with either fine. Shooting is the difference, get to know either one or even both.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13 |
In my inquiry re MIL v MOA, there was much debate but it appeared to come down to personal preference to most and it appeared that MIL had a stronger following but nobody would come out and say MOA was not ok. It was more a matter of what others were using in group events, everyone wanting to use the same standard. I was on the fence but an instructor at a shooting school that I highly regard said they use MOA at the school now but had used MIL in the past, that was good enough for me to tilt slightly in the direction of MOA.
As others have stated, dialing with dope cards, the come-up is just as easy with either although I've noticed that the MOAs are less finite, ie 3.1, 4.5, 7.5 vs 0.9, 1.3 or 2.2 for MIL if that makes any difference for people who need to wear glasses to read but don't have them handy for hunting/shooting. Did they say why?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,869 Likes: 2 |
In my inquiry re MIL v MOA, there was much debate but it appeared to come down to personal preference to most and it appeared that MIL had a stronger following but nobody would come out and say MOA was not ok. It was more a matter of what others were using in group events, everyone wanting to use the same standard. I was on the fence but an instructor at a shooting school that I highly regard said they use MOA at the school now but had used MIL in the past, that was good enough for me to tilt slightly in the direction of MOA.
As others have stated, dialing with dope cards, the come-up is just as easy with either although I've noticed that the MOAs are less finite, ie 3.1, 4.5, 7.5 vs 0.9, 1.3 or 2.2 for MIL if that makes any difference for people who need to wear glasses to read but don't have them handy for hunting/shooting. Did they say why? No, the guy was pretty generous with his time and I didn't ask but probably should have.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
In my inquiry re MIL v MOA, there was much debate but it appeared to come down to personal preference to most and it appeared that MIL had a stronger following but nobody would come out and say MOA was not ok. It was more a matter of what others were using in group events, everyone wanting to use the same standard. I was on the fence but an instructor at a shooting school that I highly regard said they use MOA at the school now but had used MIL in the past, that was good enough for me to tilt slightly in the direction of MOA.
As others have stated, dialing with dope cards, the come-up is just as easy with either although I've noticed that the MOAs are less finite, ie 3.1, 4.5, 7.5 vs 0.9, 1.3 or 2.2 for MIL if that makes any difference for people who need to wear glasses to read but don't have them handy for hunting/shooting. Using MOA instead of Mils is like doing science stuff with Imperial measurements instead of metric. Base ten is more easier every time.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,908 Likes: 13 |
My father had a stopwatch with 1/100th minute increments. Some people couldn't get their head around it.
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