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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,323 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,323 Likes: 9 |
Agree 100% with everything Jordan posted in the above posts.
Would also add, a "drop test" will likely provide more helpful data for a guy who's backpacking in the mountains than a guy who walks to a deer stand or shoots gophers next to a pickup truck (both of which are supremely satisfying pursuits).
Also, if an erector sucks, it doesn't matter if the scope is used for dialing or is just a set and forget BDC reticle.
Like I said somewhere else, I currently have 14 (maybe more) Leupold scopes. But I've known for a long time what a half-assed erector system they have - long before I read Form's comments. His, and others, observations only reinforced what I'd already seen myself. I'd also add, his scope mounting is EXACTLY how I've mounted scopes for the last 35 years. Apparently we think about mechanical things similarly.
I want Leupold to be better than they are, but they aren't. Probably good enough for what I do or will do in the future, but if I were serious about dialing I'd be 100% in with NF, SWFA, Trijicon, or a couple others. bbbut, I backpack hunt, with a M700 (and the bolt locks down), with a Leupold. Worse yet, I did have a horse fall and slide down a hill on the scabbard side, with a different M700 (the bolt locks down on that one too), with the same model of Leupold. Next day killed an elk at ~200yds. When I got home and checked the scope still held zero. But worst of all, I use blue tape to line the inside of my scope rings (not Talley LWT’s), been doing it for years. (Jordan and formi just fainted dead away…….)
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4 |
Leupold VX-III 2.5X8X36 with a B&C reticle. Everything else is superfluous
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,627 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,627 Likes: 20 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
From a sensible hunter? Or prs pansy? You sure you’re getting the appropriate perspective for subject at hand? We get it. You got embarrassed at the local outlaw match, so now you have an axe to grind with competitive shooters. It's gonna be just fine. Lol, me at a match? Hunt only, I like gear, and trialling, in field, my own gongs, my own 3d targets...then hunting, or fishing. Not playing touch willy at some match doing a bunch of the wrong kind of practice. But hey, if you’re bored and shoot is what your hobby is then giver. Hunt is mine. They still don’t make a match proper for hunting. 3d archery is close but where is that for the bang sticks? 200 rounds, sighters, little square plates (great on target reference...not), sighters, teams, much of it past real hunting distances, requiring unrealistic gear and methods. Don’t worry, even if they did get it right I’d still be hunting or fishing instead lol and prs pansies can tell my walls and my freezer how amazing ffp/mil Hubble tank is for filling both. 200 rounds...lmfao. The latest f-class. I had this go round on rokslide and a guy who dove right in admitted he was so wrapped up in it his walls and freezer were empty. Guess some of you need to figure out what’s more important. Trying to be some rockstar to other dudes in matches or just out there doing it without giving a flying fack if anyone knows about it. And this these threads in hunting optics sections going on and on about all this useless sh1t. Lol...we will right this ship. People will wake up and we will find ourselves a new trend to turn into a big ole money factory. Prs is a dandy right now but we will come full circle and focus on what’s fastest simplest toughest and best for 0-600 yards HUNTING prep, including a competition lol. And it won’t have square targets and it won’t be 200 rounds and it won’t have guns over 10 lbs, save your ‘but but nrl’ arguments, same wrong with it, not enough right. 1/2 to 3/4 sec time of flights like 3d, where killin happens, animals with flappers, solo, custom and reload, and factory including ammo, a box of shells a day. Like I said, drag this crap into the prs pansy touch willy sub forums where it belongs. I get to be rude like this here lol, it’s great. So many lost in the weeds, can’t see the forest. 😉 Man, talk about hurt feelings. Show us on the doll where the PRS shooters touched you after kicking your ass all over the course.....
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/08/24.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,785 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,785 Likes: 2 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless Not going to listen to the 2 hrs of torture, but who is footing the bill for the scopes, the rifles, and the [bleep]-ton of ammo he says he burns up? I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless Not going to listen to the 2 hrs of torture, but who is footing the bill for the scopes, the rifles, and the [bleep]-ton of ammo he says he burns up?I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The answer to your question is literally covered in the podcast.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,785 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,785 Likes: 2 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless Not going to listen to the 2 hrs of torture, but who is footing the bill for the scopes, the rifles, and the [bleep]-ton of ammo he says he burns up?I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The answer to your question is literally covered in the podcast. Then I will never know, and I'm good with that.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,818 Likes: 14 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless Not going to listen to the 2 hrs of torture, but who is footing the bill for the scopes, the rifles, and the [bleep]-ton of ammo he says he burns up?I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The answer to your question is literally covered in the podcast. Then I will never know, and I'm good with that. Ok
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,704 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,704 Likes: 1 |
I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The illum mil-dot and IHR aren't too bad for hunting. Although for the mil-dot I'd want the turrets in mil instead of moa.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,938 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,938 Likes: 1 |
I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The illum mil-dot and IHR aren't too bad for hunting. Although for the mil-dot I'd want the turrets in mil instead of moa. Been using the MOAR and liking it good enough so far.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,664 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,664 Likes: 6 |
I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The illum mil-dot and IHR aren't too bad for hunting. I like both of those options too.
WWP53D
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,217 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,217 Likes: 9 |
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification. Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take. Two + hours, not a chance. The first minute was them giggling like middle school girls at a slumber party when absolutely nothing funny was said. I can't stomach that crap. You mean the intro? Are you aware you can actually skip past the intro? Probably not, because you are stupid. I will help your dumbazz out once more...Paul spoonfed Barnard. Go to one minute forty-one seconds. Form clearly states he does not get paid by Rokslide or nightforce and never has. Kinda contradicts the bs in the OP. But facts are irrelevant with the clueless I listened to the first 1/4 or so at lunch and he says he’s not and has never been paid by any gun industry company. I didn’t hear him say he wasn’t paid by RS. Maybe he does later in the show. Doesn’t make a hill of [bleep] to me. I tested the TMK after reading his recommendation and they’re awesome for my uses. He probably doesn’t like my scope choices and they may not pass his tests. But in my particular instances I beat the piss out of them banging around on the floorboard of the truck and knocking around out in the weeds and they hold zero close enough for my needs so I’ll continue to use them until they don’t or I want to try something else. I don’t shoot matches or game at ranges requiring me to dial, my standards might be higher if I did. Nothing at all wrong with gleaning info from forums. Whether scopes, bullets, barrels, boots, food, whatever. In the end it’s up to you to test it and see if it works for YOU, under your required conditions and go from there. Most guys across the hobby, here, RS, Bubba’s guns and free coffee shop, wherever. Would be much better served to shoot and hunt more and pontificate on minutia on the internet way less.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,360 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,360 Likes: 10 |
I did listen long enough to hear him say something I agree with. That Nightforce does not make a reticle that is good for hunting. The illum mil-dot and IHR aren't too bad for hunting. Although for the mil-dot I'd want the turrets in mil instead of moa. Been using the MOAR and liking it good enough so far. We’ve used and still use the Mil R in the 2.5-10 Compacts just fine as well.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,279 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,279 Likes: 22 |
he says he’s not and has never been paid by any gun industry company. I didn’t hear him say he wasn’t paid by RS. Maybe he does later in the show. Correct, as per your usual. At the 1:42 mark anyhow, Form says: “I’ve never made a single cent from any gun company or optics company, zero, period”. Right before that, Form specifically called out not being paid by Shoot2Hunt nor Nightforce. There was never any confirmation one way or the other about Rokslide. Just prior to all that at 1:08 when asked about his tests, he does specifically say: “for Rokslide, was last winter”, which indicates to me that he does get some sort of benefit from Rokslide for doing his tests. The whole thing makes no difference to me either…I have never paid attention to his tests nor his results. I am too poor for a Nightforce anyhow. I am just passing along what he says in the beginning of the podcast.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,890 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,890 Likes: 12 |
Just prior to all that at 1:08 when asked about his tests, he does specifically say: “for Rokslide, was last winter”, which indicates to me that he does get some sort of benefit from Rokslide for doing his tests. That seems tenuous to me.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,635 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,635 Likes: 10 |
It’s pretty fhuqking easy to shoot on your own nickle and simply relate the findings. Hint…………
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,279 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,279 Likes: 22 |
Just prior to all that at 1:08 when asked about his tests, he does specifically say: “for Rokslide, was last winter”, which indicates to me that he does get some sort of benefit from Rokslide for doing his tests. That seems tenuous to me. You very well could be right. 🤷♂️ Aside from (very) slight curiosity, I am unconcerned either way.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
Just prior to all that at 1:08 when asked about his tests, he does specifically say: “for Rokslide, was last winter”, which indicates to me that he does get some sort of benefit from Rokslide for doing his tests. That seems tenuous to me. Even if true, I don’t know why that would matter. Rokslide is an Internet forum, not an optics company. Form is a moderator there. I wouldn’t be surprised not offended if he was paid.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,221
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,221 |
It’s pretty fhuqking easy to shoot on your own nickle and simply relate the findings. Hint………… Not that I don't enjoy reading about all the justifications that routinely pop up for crowning gear without actually taking it out to use by oneself, but my thought since reading about all these tests years ago is if one is dubious of someone's reported issues with something and/or not sure who or how much to believe on the interwebs, just test your own gear to whatever level leaves you confident in it for your uses. Why let someone else have all the fun? Certainly, I enjoy reading reports of others' successes and failures, and I'm always looking for data points that substantiate trends, but I tend to put more stock in my own experiences.
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