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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10 |
Could care less about a roll stamp.
For a buy and shoot rifle, they have a great track record. But that's not what dish boi dla wants to hear. His (non) logic is always far superior to anyone else's reasoning on ANYTHING. Just ask him.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10 |
2 of the 3 Ruger MPRs I've owned have been signficantly sub MOA rifles with the right handloads. The first wasn't as good on average but had the single most accurate load. The current one hasn't delivered quite the accuracy with any one load but it'll shoot .75" or better with every 55 grain hornady other than the VMAX and a max load of H335. The middle gun was merely MOA.
The comment about the loudness of the "blast enhancer" is spot on. I got into a tight spot with a cougar out in the yard and mopped up with the MPR. I was standing around behind a tree for cover and for using it for a rest. Like to blew my fooooooking eardrums out. The "blast enhancer" came off and was replaced with a thread protector. It's still loud as "f" but to me not as disturbing. Before the switch, one Saturday I'd been out shooting. A guy I work with runs cows about 3 miles up the mountain. Somehow "weekend" came up and he asked if I knew what monster rifle someone had been shooting. We started dialing in on time. I know there's a guy who shoots a braked .460 and I thought it might be him. Nope, it was me with the MPR.
The only thing I would do different if getting another AR-15 is consider a 16" barrel instead of 18" barrel. (I would be real tempted by .300 blackout though.) And nothing wrong with a PCC in concept. I don't have one but I'm ... pondering. I kinda like lever actions in that role for my current uses but in the case of "social unrest" a good 9mm PCC with a couple buckets full of 124 grain +P JHPs would be a comforting thing.
My views on ARs ... I never wanted one. No issue with others owning as many as they want. Just not what floated my boat. I only bought the first one 'cause one of my goofy assed lib female friends yammered on and on nonsensically about it and I finally decided WTF, I'm buying one just to see for myself. At this point, I don't see being without one. They're still fugly, not a bit of nice walnut to be found, and clumsy in my hand, but I can't complain about how well the darn thing shoots. It'll outshoot many bolt actions i've owned that cost more than twice as much. So be careful .. they're both practical and addictive.
Tom You have lib female "friends"? They're not your friends. Lol.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 16
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 16 |
Check PSA's daily deals. Today (2/7) there's an upper for $260 and a lower for $150. Also an Armalite complete ar for $700
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 305
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 305 |
Hello. I have the S&W MP Sport 2, Optics Model, bought bnib 3yrs ago, paid $750 out the door. Rifle is A1 performer, NO issues, super accuracy from the 1:9"bbl. I changed out Flash Hider, Handguard and trigger, but NONE of these mods were necessary, Factory rifle was perfect out of the box. I wish more rifles came through with 1:9"bbls, or slower, as I only shoot factory bulk, 55gr fmj.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377 |
The slimy old lady defiantly breathed because some scorpion badly dodged plus a territorial wolverine which, became a useless, professional journalist. The useless surgeon calmly drove because some bus driver gleefully breathed opposite a territorial scientist which, became a fancy, territorial lawyer.
Last edited by dla; 02/07/24.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,523 Likes: 10 |
The slimy old lady defiantly breathed because some scorpion badly dodged plus a territorial wolverine which, became a useless, professional journalist. The useless surgeon calmly drove because some bus driver gleefully breathed opposite a territorial scientist which, became a fancy, territorial lawyer. Yep. You're still a dum [bleep] after all this time not reading a single word you'd dribbled out. Back into the background u go. Fugkin moron.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
But it must be an excellent choice for home defense, that's the primary justification for this since I have a bunch of other firearms that work very well for 1b. I wouldn’t touch a Ruger with a ten foot pole. They have an abysmal failure rate when you start shooting them a bunch. The newer S&W aren’t terrible but those options you posted are the bargain bin of S&W. I’d be looking at one of these for $900. It’s more rifle than the other options combined. https://www.brownells.com/guns/rifles/semi-auto-rifles/the-legacy--5.56-16-midgas-fsb/
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,742
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,742 |
But it must be an excellent choice for home defense, that's the primary justification for this since I have a bunch of other firearms that work very well for 1b. I wouldn’t touch a Ruger with a ten foot pole. They have an abysmal failure rate when you start shooting them a bunch. The newer S&W aren’t terrible but those options you posted are the bargain bin of S&W. I’d be looking at one of these for $900. It’s more rifle than the other options combined. https://www.brownells.com/guns/rifles/semi-auto-rifles/the-legacy--5.56-16-midgas-fsb/. No, too basic for that money. This gets you more for your money. https://www.guns.com/firearms/rifle...;utm_campaign=35987&utm_medium=cl_NAThe Springfield Saint will go on sale for about $750 and then they really kill the competition.
B L M - Bureau of Land Management
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
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I wouldn’t touch a Ruger with a ten foot pole. They have an abysmal failure rate when you start shooting them a bunch. What is a "bunch"? I have an Ruger AR556 that is just crossing 5k rounds after 6 years of ownership. Runs great, accurate, tight. Paid $499 for it. How many rounds does the average first-time buyer shoot? My SILs Ruger MPR has only seen 1k rounds in 3 yrs of ownership. Looks brand new. Still running the bent Firing Pin I hand straightened on the kitchen table. It gets run dry a lot as my SIL disagrees with my idea of lubrication. The rifle always works. His son used the MPR to take his first deer and never complained about muzzle blast. I think my SIL and I are typical AR owners. I might shoot 1k a year, because I'm retired and reload. My SIL has to work, doesn't reload, and isn't rich. My point, in case it isn't clear, is that "bunch" is likely far more than the average AR owner is really going to shoot. The AR platform is mature. Lots of very good $500 rifles for the average AR owner nowadays.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Disclaimer:
None of the advice I ever offer is for the "average" AR owner who shoots 1K rounds in 3 years and will never trust their life to it. Nothing wrong with that being your use, it's just that you don't need advice for those guns. Most anything will work.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
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Disclaimer:
None of the advice I ever offer is for the "average" AR owner who shoots 1K rounds in 3 years and will never trust their life to it. Nothing wrong with that being your use, it's just that you don't need advice for those guns. Most anything will work. This piece in bold is probably the biggest pile of shiza I see on forums, and usually propagated by noobs and operator wannabes. If you know how to run your f-ing weapon then you certainly can "trust your life to it". It doesn't matter if it is a JC Higgins shotgun or some forum approved carbine.
Last edited by dla; 02/09/24.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,649 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,649 Likes: 1 |
If you know how to run your f-ing weapon then you certainly can "trust your life to it". It doesn't matter if it is a JC Higgins shotgun or some forum approved carbine. Only if said weapon has been thoroughly vetted under various conditions with enough rounds through it to be completely assured it will perform when needed & on demand. If not, you're just hoping it will work when needed. YMMV MM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180 |
Go to a competition shoot of any kind and see if anyone who has a malfunction wins.
We practice malfunction drills regularly and know how to “run our weapons” but one bobble will knock you out of first place and in a gunfight, there is no second place.
There’s nothing wrong with buying proven quality, it’s the smart choice. Doesn’t matter if you’re defending your life, shooting a match, hunting or just out plinking.
Again that doesn’t mean you have to buy the most expensive, just buy proven.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,377 |
Go to a competition shoot of any kind and see if anyone who has a malfunction wins. Games \ne real life We practice malfunction drills regularly and know how to “run our weapons” but one bobble will knock you out of first place and in a gunfight, there is no second place.
Look up the word "canard". "no second place" is the title of a book and a bunch of horseshlt from Hollywood's mythology of the old west gunfighter. There’s nothing wrong with buying proven quality, it’s the smart choice. Doesn’t matter if you’re defending your life, shooting a match, hunting or just out plinking.
Again that doesn’t mean you have to buy the most expensive, just buy proven. Every AR from $400 up is "proven". In the real world, if the gun will run for 30 rounds, it is good enough. If it will run for 300 rounds the Military will issue it.
Last edited by dla; 02/10/24.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180 |
Knowledge has been chasing you your entire life.
But you are too fast…
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,026 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
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I put thousands of rounds through PCC's each year and like them, but I don't think they are nearly as good as a .223/5.56 for self defense. The .223 has more power and with the right ammo is also less likely to penetrate walls. For a defense gun I would personally get something of good quality although it might cost a bit more.
I have several rifles with BCM uppers and they have been flawless. Colts are good but you pay a bit extra for the name. I think getting the upper you want and then adding a lower or putting one together together is a good way to go. A quality trigger is important and for a defense gun it's hard to beat a Geissele SSA or SSA-E. For a defense rifle I like a 14.5 or 16 inch barrel and I think a mid length gas system is a lot smoother than a carbine length. Those are my preferences, but realistically, most mid quality AR's are quite reliable these days and would be fine for your stated purposes.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,696 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,696 Likes: 5 |
The one thing that concerns me with a carbine length or shorter 223 AR as a home defense gun is the potential blast and report inside a confined space. I can't imagine what it would be like to touch off a 12.5 inch AR in a hallway without ear pro, but i assume you could kiss your hearing bye-bye. Suppressors seem like a necessity, to use a short-barreled AR as a home defense gun.
Yes, hearing loss is better than a funeral, and I also assume a three or four inch 357 would be just as bad, if not worse, in a hallway. Hell, maybe a glock 19 would be just as bad too, for all I know. I'm sure nothing is gentle on your ears in a confined space.
Been mulling getting a "K" length suppressor, to stick on a AR home defense setup. Probably need to start saving up for one.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,180 |
The 11.5” SBR with K suppressor I have is just as long as my 16” carbines but shooting indoors is bearable with the can but certainly not fun.
I will say the warrior poet John Lovell says he’ll use his SBR without a can, citing the noise will cause confusion and pain with the blast and alert his neighbors to call 911. He says Auditory Exclusion has “protected” his awareness when he has shot indoors without a suppressor.
There are times I think the suppressor might be better left off and maybe ear pro donned? But the two times I’ve grabbed a gun in the dark, it’s been my 45.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,328 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,328 Likes: 1 |
First of all your premise that a 9mm will not penetrate as much "house" as a 5.56 is flawed in my opinion, again it depends on bullets but you need to do some research on that. Secondly an 18 inch barreled gun indoors could be a bit unwieldy. Third I would trust SW over Ruger but buy neither of them. If buying an ar these days, Colt 6920, or Daniel Defense I have never had a misfire or misfeed or any other problems, just keep them well lubed. The gun I keep out for trouble is a 6920. Just an A2 flash hider is all I use, I tried and got rid of various brakes and ported barrel guns they are too loud as I hunt with the ar sometimes. In the home, a pair of even cheap walkers game ear electronic ear pro would be helpful as well as a weapon light and a good red dot on the gun or prism as you say. I myself would not would hang my hat on a 9mm PCC if that is all I was going to own, get a pistol if you want a 9mm. The 5.56 is more effective close range, and even with a peripheral hit it does great damage to flesh, and then even with 55 grain ball ammo. It will be more accurate at long range, then it does not over penetrate, its moderately inexpensive to shoot, and in what is worse is that in some places intruders are wearing even cheap body armor that would defeat 9mm, but not the 5.56. The 5.56 makes more sense for a variety of reasons.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
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I can't imagine shooting an AR-15 indoors without ear protection. You probably would lose a significant amount of your hearing. And an SBR would be even louder than a standard length AR.
But it's not hard to keep a set of ear muffs or plugs where you can get to them quickly in an emergency.
Still, I think the advantages of a .223/5.56 over a 9mm outweigh the noise issues and of course even a 9mm is very loud in an enclosed space.
But I've been considering getting a suppressed SBR in .300 Blackout, as it would mitigate the noise issue considerably and still give you the power of a rifle.
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