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Once again, I’m reading T J Stiles biography of Custer. At this point the young Lieutenant is serving on General McClellan’s staff during the Peninsular Campaign.
Here, Stiles brings up some points that I had never considered before.
Little Mac constantly, throughout his command of the Army, believed he was outnumbered nearly two to one by General Lees forces. These enemy estimates were all the product of the Pinkerton Agency.
Once McClellan was gone, these Pinkerton estimates disappear from history.
But was Mac paying the Pinkertons or was their investigation payed for by the Lincoln run government? Remember, Pinkerton was originally hired as a body guard to the President elect before he got anywhere near Washington DC!
I won’t directly fault Lincoln himself. No history author has to my knowledge. (Not that I don’t put it past him)
But Stanton in particular, and many republican senators and politicians were very anti McClellan, quietly at first, but openly and rabidly after Mac was gone. I would almost compare their persecution of McClellan supporters to the Nazts pursuit of the Jews!
Mac was a very staunch and outspoken democrat, and I sure many republicans saw him as a potential rival, and possibly a post war threat to political power.
Could it be that republicans were deliberately feeding Mac false information in order to prevent a great strategic victory by a democrat?
In today’s political climate, this is very easy to believe. But how underhanded was the Republican Party in 1861/62?
Like I said, I hadn’t thought about this directly before, but it poses a very interesting and serious question as to who and what exactly drove the government to incite and prosecute a bloody civil war.
Maybe, just maybe, the war was fought with the goal of eradicating slavery?!!!
Reon


"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden


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Lincoln was put out by McClellan's inaction. As for the Pinkertons I cannot say but it might be a good guess they were sympathetic to the South and fed tainted information. I see the General as a country club political appointee with little talent for prosecuting a war. He was popular with his troupes but ineffective in the job he was tasked with.

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They tried to catch Jesse James after the war

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He probably doesn’t get enough credit. Lee considered him the best Yankee general of the war. Without question, his logistical expertise built the northern army. And without him, the north may have lost the war early.

As to your questions, I could definitely see it. He was immensely popular with the public and the troops early in the war. He was a Democrat who was a staunch enemy of the radical Republicans and he had made allegations of voter fraud in the election of Lincoln. He claimed to have stopped an entire train of illegal voters who were being shipped to another location to vote for Lincoln. He was NOT an abolitionist and believed that as it was in the Constitution, slavery should be protected by the national government. In any case, he would have had go after the Emancipation Proclamation because of this stance alone. Which, of course, he was fired a couple months after it was released.

So, yeah, I could see that happening.

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Supposedly the Pinkertons foiled a assassination attempt on Lincoln in 1861

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I do not believe for a second that the Pinkertons were sympathetic to the South. They were bought and paid for by Abe and Republicans.

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No on southern sympathy, but controlled by republicans I can buy easily!
Stanton was one of the Democratic Nominees in 1860. When he was invited into Lincoln’s cabinet, he figured on Lincoln being a figurehead, and he himself holding the reins.
Based on most of my reading, I don’t doubt he had much more clout than he should have, so who knows for sure? Maybe Lincoln was only a moderating influence, and Stanton was pulling the strings
In 1862 he switched to Republican Party, and he was certainly one of the leaders of what we now call “black republicans”.
This is the first time this popped up in my mind, but it is an interesting question, so I tossed it out here.
At the risk of starting another whizzing contest, there are several members who I respect and value their opinions!😀
Reon


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Originally Posted by earlybrd
They tried to catch Jesse James after the war

"But that dirty little coward who shot Mr. Howard, laid poor Jesse in his grave." wink

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Originally Posted by rainshot
Lincoln was put out by McClellan's inaction. As for the Pinkertons I cannot say but it might be a good guess they were sympathetic to the South and fed tainted information. I see the General as a country club political appointee with little talent for prosecuting a war. He was popular with his troupes but ineffective in the job he was tasked with.

Would the Pinkertons have been sympathetic to the south for financial reasons?


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Originally Posted by rainshot
Lincoln was put out by McClellan's inaction. As for the Pinkertons I cannot say but it might be a good guess they were sympathetic to the South and fed tainted information. I see the General as a country club political appointee with little talent for prosecuting a war. He was popular with his troupes but ineffective in the job he was tasked with.
Take Antietam for example Lee had 38k troops lil Mac had 87k somebody on the yanky side of the creek grossly overestimated

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I sorta doubt it. Like I said, they were hired to protect Lincoln from assassination plots when he was headed to Washington to take office. They infiltrated several gangs of conspirators, and I believe they managed to break a couple plots up before they attempted anything.
I rule out southern sympathy on this. Remember, McDowell also believed these estimates before Bull Run.
I’m just wondering who really signed the checks though. I rule out Little Mac because they were already in place when the war started.
If my theory that they were working for some Republican is correct, I can easily believe they fed Mac inflated estimates in order to keep him from being overly aggressive.
I have always believed what we were taught, that Mac was afraid to commit the AOTP in a finish fight. It was his creation, and he was rightfully proud of it and his soldiers. I doubt anyone else could have formed such an organization in such a short period. He was truly an inspiration to those who served under him. They were proud of him and I believe, would have charged Hell itself if he had asked them to.
My question addresses the reason he never did? Cowardice? I have a rough time buying that.
But as I get more and more cynical viewing our government now, that cynicism invades what is written now as history!
Mac knew his army was the only real obstacle between the Rebel Army and the Capital.
If the numbers were true, he had to be cautious.
What exactly was it that made him so damn cautious?
Reon


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Jeb Stuart !

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Originally Posted by earlybrd
Originally Posted by rainshot
Lincoln was put out by McClellan's inaction. As for the Pinkertons I cannot say but it might be a good guess they were sympathetic to the South and fed tainted information. I see the General as a country club political appointee with little talent for prosecuting a war. He was popular with his troupes but ineffective in the job he was tasked with.
Take Antietam for example Lee had 38k troops lil Mac had 87k somebody on the yanky side of the creek grossly overestimated

I just read something to that effect.


Like one battle McClellan had more troops in reserve than the CSA had in the fight.

Last edited by Jim_Conrad; 02/18/24.

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Another factor when lil Mac started his peninsula campaign he was fighting Joe Johnston not Lee

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Even at Antietam, Mac still believed he was fighting a force over 100,000. He was fixing to send in Franklin’s corps, his last reserves. He had Lee on the ropes.
But Franklin reminded him, “General, my corps is the last reserve of The Army Of The Potomac”.
He backed down, and Lee got across the river.
I think some of you forget, what happened between the Peninsula Campaign and Antietam.
Remember John Pope? Got his ass handed to him at 2nd Bull Run, and many of Mac’s divisions were sent over to Pope!
What I’m getting at is that consistently, he was getting false reports of enemy strength.
Why? Was Pinkerton crazy, or was somebody in the Lincoln Administration deliberately preventing Little Mac from achieving victory.by way of feeding him false intel?
Remember, a victorious McClellan would be a shoe in on the next election!
My mind keeps pointing the finger to either Lincoln or Stanton.
It maybe was a war to end slavery after all, but they were hiding that agenda, and keeping
Little Mac from gaining a clear cut victory in order to achieve that purpose.
Reon


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Dang, I was really looking forward to hearing from the ‘Campfire “Brain Trust” on this!
I know there are many of us who have read into this, and enjoy threads regarding the Civil War.
And this is something that I had never considered before, and I’m sure deserves some thinking and comments.
If Stanton was in fact guiding this, it explains an awful lot.
Reon


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Wasn’t Stanton a target with Booth?

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You may have a valid point there Reon I don’t think it was Lincoln

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Stanton was not. Could be you’re thinking of Seward, the Sec Of State. He was stabbed and cut up, along with his son and daughter who tried to stop the assassin.
Someone was also to murder A Johnson as well, but the perpetrator just got drunk instead.
Every writer I’ve read comments on how Stanton “took charge of everything” the night Lincoln was shot.
But the thoughts of him deliberately feeding Little Mac false intel makes me think that he was actually in charge from the beginning.
Reon


"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden


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Originally Posted by 7mmbuster
Once again, I’m reading T J Stiles biography of Custer. At this point the young Lieutenant is serving on General McClellan’s staff during the Peninsular Campaign.
Here, Stiles brings up some points that I had never considered before.
Little Mac constantly, throughout his command of the Army, believed he was outnumbered nearly two to one by General Lees forces. These enemy estimates were all the product of the Pinkerton Agency.
Once McClellan was gone, these Pinkerton estimates disappear from history.
But was Mac paying the Pinkertons or was their investigation payed for by the Lincoln run government? Remember, Pinkerton was originally hired as a body guard to the President elect before he got anywhere near Washington DC!
I won’t directly fault Lincoln himself. No history author has to my knowledge. (Not that I don’t put it past him)
But Stanton in particular, and many republican senators and politicians were very anti McClellan, quietly at first, but openly and rabidly after Mac was gone. I would almost compare their persecution of McClellan supporters to the Nazts pursuit of the Jews!
Mac was a very staunch and outspoken democrat, and I sure many republicans saw him as a potential rival, and possibly a post war threat to political power.
Could it be that republicans were deliberately feeding Mac false information in order to prevent a great strategic victory by a democrat?
In today’s political climate, this is very easy to believe. But how underhanded was the Republican Party in 1861/62?
Like I said, I hadn’t thought about this directly before, but it poses a very interesting and serious question as to who and what exactly drove the government to incite and prosecute a bloody civil war.
Maybe, just maybe, the war was fought with the goal of eradicating slavery?!!!
Reon
Originally Posted by 7mmbuster
Once again, I’m reading T J Stiles biography of Custer. At this point the young Lieutenant is serving on General McClellan’s staff during the Peninsular Campaign.
Here, Stiles brings up some points that I had never considered before.
Little Mac constantly, throughout his command of the Army, believed he was outnumbered nearly two to one by General Lees forces. These enemy estimates were all the product of the Pinkerton Agency.
Once McClellan was gone, these Pinkerton estimates disappear from history.
But was Mac paying the Pinkertons or was their investigation payed for by the Lincoln run government? Remember, Pinkerton was originally hired as a body guard to the President elect before he got anywhere near Washington DC!
I won’t directly fault Lincoln himself. No history author has to my knowledge. (Not that I don’t put it past him)
But Stanton in particular, and many republican senators and politicians were very anti McClellan, quietly at first, but openly and rabidly after Mac was gone. I would almost compare their persecution of McClellan supporters to the Nazts pursuit of the Jews!
Mac was a very staunch and outspoken democrat, and I sure many republicans saw him as a potential rival, and possibly a post war threat to political power.
Could it be that republicans were deliberately feeding Mac false information in order to prevent a great strategic victory by a democrat?
In today’s political climate, this is very easy to believe. But how underhanded was the Republican Party in 1861/62?
Like I said, I hadn’t thought about this directly before, but it poses a very interesting and serious question as to who and what exactly drove the government to incite and prosecute a bloody civil war.
Maybe, just maybe, the war was fought with the goal of eradicating slavery?!!!
Reon
Originally Posted by 7mmbuster
Once again, I’m reading T J Stiles biography of Custer. At this point the young Lieutenant is serving on General McClellan’s staff during the Peninsular Campaign.
Here, Stiles brings up some points that I had never considered before.
Little Mac constantly, throughout his command of the Army, believed he was outnumbered nearly two to one by General Lees forces. These enemy estimates were all the product of the Pinkerton Agency.
Once McClellan was gone, these Pinkerton estimates disappear from history.
But was Mac paying the Pinkertons or was their investigation payed for by the Lincoln run government? Remember, Pinkerton was originally hired as a body guard to the President elect before he got anywhere near Washington DC!
I won’t directly fault Lincoln himself. No history author has to my knowledge. (Not that I don’t put it past him)
But Stanton in particular, and many republican senators and politicians were very anti McClellan, quietly at first, but openly and rabidly after Mac was gone. I would almost compare their persecution of McClellan supporters to the Nazts pursuit of the Jews!
Mac was a very staunch and outspoken democrat, and I sure many republicans saw him as a potential rival, and possibly a post war threat to political power.
Could it be that republicans were deliberately feeding Mac false information in order to prevent a great strategic victory by a democrat?
In today’s political climate, this is very easy to believe. But how underhanded was the Republican Party in 1861/62?
Like I said, I hadn’t thought about this directly before, but it poses a very interesting and serious question as to who and what exactly drove the government to incite and prosecute a bloody civil war.
Maybe, just maybe, the war was fought with the goal of eradicating slavery?!!!
Reon


"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden


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